.17 Remington Project Rifle

Improving and repairing firearms. Rifle bedding, barrel work, stock replacement and other ways to improve your firearms.

Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by straightshooter » 04 Jun 2019, 8:29 am

Before you condemn the barrel try this cleaning method.
Day 1 bronze brush the bore with Hoppe's copper remover or similar solvent and leave standing with muzzle down.
Day 2 patch out with a tight fitting patch and then with a nylon brush brush the bore with the same Hoppe's copper remover or similar solvent and leave standing with muzzle down.
Day 3 patch out and inspect the patch, if there are any green or blue stains repeat Day 2
Keep doing until patches come out without stains.
If you are lucky and there is no or only slight etching where the copper has been removed and there are no other defects like rust in the barrel, you may be surprised to find the rifle shoots well provided there are no other optical or mechanical issues.
If you are somewhat unlucky and the etching is severe then the rifle may still shoot well only to foul quickly and lose accuracy when fouled. There will be no fix other than diligent cleaning or a new barrel.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by marksman » 04 Jun 2019, 9:08 am

sounds to me like you have already got the itch to rebarrel :drinks:
it's not a bad thing :lol:
its a disease :drinks:

it would be smart to clean the barrel properly as straightshooter said
as usual methods of cleaning will be different for different people but anyway just clean it
maybe polish the throat, recrown, lighten the trigger, bed the action

f@rk it just order a new air gauged match grade barrel and be done with it
just make sure the smith is an accuracy smith who uses match reamers
or you might as well have bought a factory rifle :thumbsup:
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by SCJ429 » 04 Jun 2019, 4:03 pm

Have you seen a popular QLD gunshop is selling IBI barrels from Canada for $390. I saw one shoot a 0.800 inch group at 300 metres. I didn't see any in 20 cals but you could ask.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 04 Jun 2019, 5:53 pm

As it happens, Straightshooters cleaning method is about the same as my own. I will certainly give it a good clean when I get it, and then go from there. Perhaps as Marksman suggests, some minor gunsmithing may be needed. Trigger does need adjusting I am told, as it has a little creep in it, and these triggers are excellent, so that can be adjusted out. I will do a bedding job on it myself, as my last one turned out pretty good. Hopefully after this, I can replicate the small groups the seller showed me that he has shot. If I can do that, then it will stay as a .17. If it turns out otherwise, then I will make it a .204, but at this point it will be the good old .17 Remington. :thumbsup:
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 10 Jun 2019, 8:30 pm

https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/en/produkt/meostar-r2-2-5-15x56-rd-1000/

I have bought a scope for my new rifle - Meopta Meostar 2.5-15x56. I have a 2-12 Meostar on another rifle, and it is a superb optic. So I have bought a matching one for the .17.

Gun shop has contacted me about their stock, as the scope comes with a selection of reticles. Their sale price is for a BDC reticle, so that is what I bought via their website. However on the day I ordered it, they sold it in the store. They have another one in a normal reticle, so I may end up with that depending on distributor stock.

So, a question for our members. What are the pros and cons of the BDC in your opinion for a hunting rifle? I figure it could be useful, but I have only ever used conventional reticles. I would be happy with the normal reticle, as it is a safe option that I am used to. Any fans of the BDC for hunting?
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 10 Jun 2019, 9:32 pm

Here is one view on the subject.

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/the-straight-dope-on-bdc-scopes/

Not mentioned in this is the fact that it changes as you vary the magnification. Hmmmmmm……… :?
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 11 Jun 2019, 11:40 am

Ah well, it doesn't matter now - no more scopes with the BDC in Australia at the moment. So I have agreed to buy the scope with the normal 4C reticle I am used to. Just have to do things the old fashioned way for a while longer. ;)
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 01 Jul 2019, 7:48 pm

Cleaning the barrel is a slooowwww process. I have spent a few days on it so far, and I am still getting carbon and copper out of it. I have read that some people have found that layers of carbon/copper can build up, and that you have to progressively get rid of them. I am finding something that resembles that problem. Normally, I have patched out with solvent to remove carbon until patches are clean, then changed over to copper removal. Once that is removed a few more patches to check for any more carbon and then it is finished. Not so with this rifle. So far, when I switch between solvents it starts cleaning again, and a lot more fouling comes out.

It is an old rifle, so I guess that I am dealing with 30 years worth of carbon and copper. Products and methods I use work well normally, and I have seen this problem before on old rifles, so I just need to keep plodding along.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 02 Jul 2019, 4:20 pm

Cleaning is continuing! Looks like I am getting close to a result now, with patches coming out cleaner than previously. Perhaps I could have done this quicker, but I have tried not to brush it too much, rather letting the solvent do its job, and then patching it out. I have used a few patches..... :roll:

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And here is the old girl as she is now. Stock is in reasonable condition for its age, with only one bit of damage that cannot be repaired easily. The forend has a good ding on one corner, which is too deep to do much about. I think to try to fill it etc would make it worse. It is only small, so is best left alone I think. Wet sanding with Tru Oil will fill it a bit, and round the edges off. That will have to do. The stock will then be sold off to a new owner.

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Bluing is well worn, and there is some corrosion as well. Not bad though, so no major pitting that I can see. Looks like it has ben resting against something that held moisture, as the rust marks on the barrel are in a line. I think it will all polish off.

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And the reason the normal stock will be sold is that I have a Deluxe stock for it. It is in very good condition, with no major faults. It has been refinished at some point, just not very well. It is pretty good, but not as good as it could be. So it will be refinished before the project is complete. Nice piece of timber, in the old Monte Carlo style. I quite like this, and am well used to its feel, as my well used Tikka in .243 has the same stock.

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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by duncan61 » 03 Jul 2019, 5:48 pm

The farmer that lets me shoot on his blocks bought a brand new .243 and was telling me that it has stopped shooting well.I asked about his cleaning routine and he just wiped the outside with an oily rag.I took it home and it took a week to clean the bore
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 03 Jul 2019, 7:18 pm

Yep, It can sometimes. I am still working away at mine, I am still getting cooper out of it. I thought I needed to do something different today. I did not have any Sweets handy, which I will use I think, so I thought I would give the old hot water trick a whirl. I have not done this before, but my father has in the past on badly fouled rifles. So I boiled the jug, poured it slowly through the bore, and then did it again. The plan was to get it hot, get the water out, and then get some copper removing in there while the barrel was hot. So I put a patch through to dry it out, and it came out filthy!!! After a week of cleaning, with no solvent, it was quite dirty. So it obviously works.

I just had a thought. I should put some solvent on that patch and see if it changes colour. At the moment it just looks dirty, but solvent may turn it blue, which would confirm if it is copper. Worth a try.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 05 Jul 2019, 7:26 pm

Still cleaning...….. :wtf:

The dirty patch mentioned above did not show signs of copper when solvent was added to it.

It is a .17 Rem, so one of the most notorious barrel foulers, but I expected to be finished by now. The theory of copper and carbon getting deposited in layers seems to be the case. Changing between solvents and methods seems to be the way to stir things up and make some progress. But it is weird to have put 200 patches through a barrel, and then all of a sudden the next one is black.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 05 Jul 2019, 9:01 pm

A well written article on the subject, in my opinion.

https://www.range365.com/dirty-little-secret-gun-cleaning/
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Jul 2019, 10:11 am

Have you tried windex? Not bad for removing carbon fouling. But if you do keep in mind its water based.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 06 Jul 2019, 10:29 am

Oldbloke wrote:Have you tried windex? Not bad for removing carbon fouling. But if you do keep in mind its water based.


Thanks OB, I haven't tried it, but have read about it. I am using the occasional bit of carby cleaner, which is used for carbon as well.

It is interesting. I bought some Butch's Bore Shine, as the shop was out of Sweets, but appears to be a similar product - ammonia based, same colour, same smell. Tried it out when I got home, but no blue on the patches. Hmmm...… not what I expected. So then a bit of carby cleaner gets out a lot of black. So I continue on with my normal Pro Shot cleaner for carbon/lead fouling, and left it overnight. A few patches this morning had it looking ok, with patches coming out pretty clean, but not perfect. So, a patch with Butch's went through, followed by another after a few minutes. Yep, came the blue muck!! Yesterday it came out clean, but after a clean for carbon, then I get more copper. It is following the theory of the fouling being in layers, and if I am using the wrong solvent, it will look clean, until I switch to something else. So when I get back to it, I will continue to alternate solvents.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by marksman » 06 Jul 2019, 5:32 pm

it really comes down to what will work for you GQshane

I've tried a heap of stuff myself and have settled on using wipeout patchout and it's accelerator for carbon and bore tech eliminator occasionally for copper
here is a photo of patches from what I thought was a very clean stainless match barrel, let's say my impressions of it are very good, I am happy

Image

I have had barrels that you would have thought were smooth bores that took weeks and weeks of continuous soaking and scrubbing
I used outboard motor top end carbon cleaner, carby cleaners, sweets ect
makes you wonder why people dont look after their gear better :unknown:
because your barrel is taking so long to get all the crud out I would suggest after it is clean to polish your bore with some autosol but only after it is clean
btw I really like the fiddleback in your stock :thumbsup:
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 06 Jul 2019, 7:41 pm

This is the worst I have seen for sure. But not totally unexpected, given the seller told me it had been neglected at some point.

I have never seen your Patchout for sale anywhere, so hopefully what I have is sufficient. Given that fouling is being removed, I think it is. It is just a bigger task than anticipated. I had to leave it today, to do some 4wd suspension work, so my dad continued on with what I was doing. I have not checked it see how he went, but he tells me that he ended up with clean patches. We shall see.

As for the stock, it is a nice piece of wood. I think with a careful re-finish it will look very nice. My last one was done over a period of weeks, with careful attention to steaming and wet sanding etc. This one will get the same treatment, and I think will be excellent when done.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by marksman » 06 Jul 2019, 9:14 pm

I get the wipe out patch out sent over from family in the US, its very good stuff, I think brownells au would most likely get it in

IMHO it would be good to soak your barrel 24hrs a day giving it a scratch up with a bronze brush once a day and only taking out the gunk after that
you will find that the barrel being chromoly you will think you have it clean but the pores will have carbon in them
that's why I recommend to polish the bore after you have got it clean to close the pores to stop it fouling
I only ever put solvent in a bore from a brush, nylon or bronze, to give it a scratch and wet it down good, I only use patches to push the crud out

your stock is worth putting in the attention, your doing a good job :drinks:
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 07 Jul 2019, 6:54 pm

marksman wrote:I get the wipe out patch out sent over from family in the US, its very good stuff, I think brownells au would most likely get it in

IMHO it would be good to soak your barrel 24hrs a day giving it a scratch up with a bronze brush once a day and only taking out the gunk after that
you will find that the barrel being chromoly you will think you have it clean but the pores will have carbon in them
that's why I recommend to polish the bore after you have got it clean to close the pores to stop it fouling
I only ever put solvent in a bore from a brush, nylon or bronze, to give it a scratch and wet it down good, I only use patches to push the crud out

your stock is worth putting in the attention, your doing a good job :drinks:


What would be your suggestion to soak it in?? I have thought about it, with turps or kero etc.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by marksman » 07 Jul 2019, 9:02 pm

I should have put down bore not barrel :lol:

just a really good wetting down with solvent and left should do the trick, then a wet brush before you patch the crud out :drinks:

this may be worth a thought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISB3o2qLvd4
but research it first :drinks:
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 08 Jul 2019, 7:30 pm

marksman wrote:I should have put down bore not barrel :lol:

just a really good wetting down with solvent and left should do the trick, then a wet brush before you patch the crud out :drinks:

this may be worth a thought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISB3o2qLvd4
but research it first :drinks:


Interesting. I note that his concoction contained ammonia though.

I knew what you meant - can just imagine someone soaking the barrel while it is still in the stock. :unknown:

I read a cleaning article that suggested that if you leave it long enough, muzzle down, and trickle cleaner down it, eventually it will remove all fouling. Not practical, but suggests that the solvent will do the work. Given that modern copper solvents can be left in the bore, soaking is a good option. I am putting wet patches through before putting it away. I did consider sacrificing a container of solvent, by plugging the barrel and filling it up.

A few articles such as the one above, advise alternating between bore paste and copper solvent, and just keep going!
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 17 Sep 2019, 7:36 pm

Well the cleaning process continues. Nope, not kidding. Hundreds of patches and cotton tips have passed through it, along with a lot of solvent. Quite incredible. I have never seen anything like it. But while carbon and copper continue to be removed the job is not completed. I figure it comes clean, or it gets replaced. Many and varied solvents and methods have been tried, as you do when results are not forthcoming.

Maybe today, the corner has been turned!! Not definite yet, but have seen a few clean patches. Fingers crossed.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by marksman » 17 Sep 2019, 9:17 pm

the bore may need this, I would give it a crack, really what can go wrong :drinks:

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... ber%20plug.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 18 Sep 2019, 8:38 pm

marksman wrote:the bore may need this, I would give it a crack, really what can go wrong :drinks:

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread ... ber%20plug.


I have seen this before. I think it would be a last resort for me. Nothing to lose if you were going to re-barrel I suppose. Also, if you bought an old military rifle or something that the bore looked terrible, then it might be a good place to start. But my barrel looks ok when you shine a light down and have a look at it. No bore scoping though. But as it looks ok, I will persist with more conventional methods for the moment.

In about two weeks I have a chance to test it out, so it will need to be set-up, ie trigger creep adjusted and scope fitted. I also need to make up some test loads too. So soon I will see what it can do.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by deanp100 » 21 Sep 2019, 5:22 pm

I recently had to clean out two old barrels, one happened to a m55 17 rem. I didn’t use patches until the end. Scrubbed with bronze brush and sweets and then squirted some metho down the barrel to wash out, and then go again. Saved frigging around with patches. Only used a patch when testing the cleanliness.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by tophet1 » 22 Sep 2019, 7:37 am

Had the use of my B-I-L's .17 Remington 700 for some time before the Calicii (?) Virus 'escaped'. So much fun. No muzzle rise. Would love to rebarrel an old Sako Varmint rifle one day. If you reload and have the cash just DO IT.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by SCJ429 » 22 Sep 2019, 8:40 am

tophet1 wrote:Had the use of my B-I-L's .17 Remington 700 for some time before the Calicii (?) Virus 'escaped'. So much fun. No muzzle rise. Would love to rebarrel an old Sako Varmint rifle one day. If you reload and have the cash just DO IT.


A popular QLD gun store sells Canadian IBI barrels for $390, they appear to shoot pretty well from what I have seen. No 17 or 20 cal barrels however.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 22 Sep 2019, 7:18 pm

Looks to be clean - finally. Like nothing I have ever seen before. Now to see how it shoots, and how hard it is to clean again afterwards.
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by marksman » 22 Sep 2019, 8:36 pm

if I were you I would be giving the bore a polish with autosol before shooting it
how I do it is to oil the bore (inox, wd40 or whatever) then use a tight fitting patch smeared with autosol on a jag and push the patch into the bore about 6 inches back and forth at least 20 times the increase the depth to around 3/4 of the barrel length another 20 times back and forth then to just about the muzzle another 20 times and push the patch out, after this push a few clean oiled patches through but do not worry about the blackness of the patches
its a good thing not to do to much at the muzzle because you want a restriction if possible

the reason for doing this is to smooth out any bumps or sharp edges in the bore that will pick up copper and foul your bore
you can also use JB bore cleaning compound paste but both JB and autosol will not harm your bore

well done and good luck with it :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: .17 Remington Project Rifle

Post by GQshayne » 23 Sep 2019, 7:44 pm

I have done that already thanks Marksman. Seems like it can only help the situation, and is used by many. The other tip I have picked up is the use of graphite in the bore after cleaning. Lots of benchrest shooters do this to help with the first shot after cleaning, but also there is many that think that it helps with copper removal next cleaning. In the US there is a product called Lock Ease, which we do not have, but I have ordered something similar.

Made up a few test loads today, with my powder of choice - W760. I chose it because it will be easy to meter, and get in that tiny case neck. It works well in that regard, compared to AR2208 & 2209 anyway. Good!

I picked a load off an internet forum (one of them anyway) - 26gn of W760 behind the 25gn Hornady VMax. Long way short of a max load, as plenty of owners think that barrel wear, and fouling, increases when loads go over 4000fps. So I am intending to stay below that. I have a few at 26.3gn and 26.6gn as well, still short of 4000fps, so well below max loads. So I will see how they go next week.
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