Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Shootermick » 24 Feb 2022, 8:22 pm

JimTom wrote:
N.Field wrote:Maybe this:
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/s ... rod43.aspx

Image
XS SIGHT SYSTEMS - MARLIN 1894 REAR SIGHT


Legend, thank you Sir. Exactly what I was looking for.


I’ve got one of these too, had it on my 336, but I took it off. Bought it through Cleavers. If you get stuck, and if mine would fit the 1894, you’d be welcome to it.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 25 Feb 2022, 5:14 am

Shootermick wrote:
JimTom wrote:
N.Field wrote:Maybe this:
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/s ... rod43.aspx

Image
XS SIGHT SYSTEMS - MARLIN 1894 REAR SIGHT


Legend, thank you Sir. Exactly what I was looking for.


I’ve got one of these too, had it on my 336, but I took it off. Bought it through Cleavers. If you get stuck, and if mine would fit the 1894, you’d be welcome to it.


Thanks mate. Sincerely appreciated. I have found them at cleavers and will give it a try.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Faedy » 25 Feb 2022, 10:41 pm

If you loosen the two lightly torqued screws off, can you get the other 2 screws started in their threads?
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Blr243 » 26 Feb 2022, 8:36 am

Faedy that’s usually how I approach thepoblemm ,then if still no joy i reach for a drill to adjust holes in rail
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 26 Feb 2022, 9:32 am

Faedy wrote:If you loosen the two lightly torqued screws off, can you get the other 2 screws started in their threads?


I can get three of the four in mate with relative ease, and could prob hand fist the fourth one in. I can get the rail on there however the alignment of the rail compared to receiver and barrel is quite noticeable. Well for my OCD anyhow.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Blr243 » 26 Feb 2022, 10:13 am

If with 3 or 4 screws in the rail/ receiver alignment with naked eye is still wrong that’s a heck of a long way off
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 26 Feb 2022, 11:17 am

Blr243 wrote:If with 3 or 4 screws in the rail/ receiver alignment with naked eye is still wrong that’s a heck of a long way off


Yeah mate it is. The scope could still be mounted and I’d say it should have enough windage adjustment.
I just wouldn’t be able to deal with it being out of alignment though. Every time I saw it, it would absolutely burn my piss.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Die Judicii » 26 Feb 2022, 7:16 pm

JimTom wrote:
Blr243 wrote:If with 3 or 4 screws in the rail/ receiver alignment with naked eye is still wrong that’s a heck of a long way off


Yeah mate it is. The scope could still be mounted and I’d say it should have enough windage adjustment.
I just wouldn’t be able to deal with it being out of alignment though. Every time I saw it, it would absolutely burn my piss.


Looks like your heading down the path that I suggested via PM. :thumbsup:
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 26 Feb 2022, 9:16 pm

More than likely mate, either that or just run with the red dot that’s on it or open sights as god intended it to be used.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by pomemax » 27 Feb 2022, 11:50 am

Try another rail before you mess with the gun .
I was fitting a rail to a Marlin Matte 55910 and the holes were no where near where they had to be and the 2nd was countersunk to deep so the screws bottomed out before securing the rail 3 rail worked ok
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 27 Feb 2022, 2:47 pm

pomemax wrote:Try another rail before you mess with the gun .
I was fitting a rail to a Marlin Matte 55910 and the holes were no where near where they had to be and the 2nd was countersunk to deep so the screws bottomed out before securing the rail 3 rail worked ok


Pretty confident the rifle is the issue mate, but don’t think I will bother messing with it. I have had a think and reckon I may try modifying a cheap rail first to see if it’s successful, or just go with open or peep sight.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by bladeracer » 27 Feb 2022, 2:51 pm

JimTom wrote:
pomemax wrote:Try another rail before you mess with the gun .
I was fitting a rail to a Marlin Matte 55910 and the holes were no where near where they had to be and the 2nd was countersunk to deep so the screws bottomed out before securing the rail 3 rail worked ok


Pretty confident the rifle is the issue mate, but don’t think I will bother messing with it. I have had a think and reckon I may try modifying a cheap rail first to see if it’s successful, or just go with open or peep sight.


I would try just using two screws, front and rear.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Blr243 » 27 Feb 2022, 2:58 pm

I think a cheap ally rail , cut where it’s required, will have it sorted , and you soon will be charging around the edges of a swamp chasing boars with more enthusiasm than an angry European man throwing a petrol bomb at a Russian tank
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 27 Feb 2022, 3:25 pm

Blr243 wrote:I think a cheap ally rail , cut where it’s required, will have it sorted , and you soon will be charging around the edges of a swamp chasing boars with more enthusiasm than an angry European man throwing a petrol bomb at a Russian tank



Bahahaha very true mate.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Die Judicii » 27 Feb 2022, 9:18 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Pretty confident the rifle is the issue mate, but don’t think I will bother messing with it. I have had a think and reckon I may try modifying a cheap rail first to see if it’s successful, or just go with open or peep sight.


I would try just using two screws, front and rear.[/quote]

If the drilled and tapped holes are out of alignment on the rifle as JT says, How is just using a front and rear screw going to remedy the alignment problem ?

:unknown:
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by bladeracer » 28 Feb 2022, 10:56 am

Die Judicii wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Pretty confident the rifle is the issue mate, but don’t think I will bother messing with it. I have had a think and reckon I may try modifying a cheap rail first to see if it’s successful, or just go with open or peep sight.


I would try just using two screws, front and rear.


If the drilled and tapped holes are out of alignment on the rifle as JT says, How is just using a front and rear screw going to remedy the alignment problem ?

:unknown:[/quote]

Because two holes will always line up, three becomes a problem, four becomes impossible. If the curve of the receiver doesn't align with at least two holes then you might have to start dressing the rail to fit the curve, or bed it with epoxy.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 28 Feb 2022, 4:37 pm

I can get the rail on there with three out of four screws mate, it is just crooked is all.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 28 Feb 2022, 4:43 pm

I have just been doing a bit of research and my rifle, although proofed REP, actually has a JM serial number. It was manufactured in 2009 which was prior to Remington taking over manufacturing and moving from Connecticut to New York. I am wondering if the components were manufactured by Marlin then it was assembled, drilled / tapped and proofed by Remington?
This rifle cycles and shoots like an absolute champion, shooting sub MOA with factory loads, and better with my hand loads. Probably what I’d expect from a proper Marlin, however the sketchy drill and tap job is what I’d expect from the modern Remington.
Possible?
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Lsfan » 28 Feb 2022, 7:42 pm

JimTom wrote:I have just been doing a bit of research and my rifle, although proofed REP, actually has a JM serial number. It was manufactured in 2009 which was prior to Remington taking over manufacturing and moving from Connecticut to New York. I am wondering if the components were manufactured by Marlin then it was assembled, drilled / tapped and proofed by Remington?
This rifle cycles and shoots like an absolute champion, shooting sub MOA with factory loads, and better with my hand loads. Probably what I’d expect from a proper Marlin, however the sketchy drill and tap job is what I’d expect from the modern Remington.
Possible?

I recently bought a marlin 17hmr. When I fitted the scope, I thought it looked out of parallel with the barrel. I eventually got it sighted in but makes me think mine may have a similar issue although it is a 2 piece weaver rail.
On another note, when I got my howa, I also got an MDT pic rail. I couldn't get the screws to line up with the rail. It may have been half a mm out, so I used a needle file in the pic rail which worked perfectly. It was within the countersunk part of the hole so didn't require much work at all. Holes were in alignment but just a little further apart in the rail.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Blr243 » 28 Feb 2022, 10:45 pm

I reckon there’s a fair bit of this sort of thing goin on , usually with a bit of force or wiggle we can deal with it , occasionally need a file , and occasionally real bad like jimmy s
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by straightshooter » 01 Mar 2022, 7:17 am

JimTom wrote:I have just been doing a bit of research and my rifle, although proofed REP, actually has a JM serial number. It was manufactured in 2009 which was prior to Remington taking over manufacturing and moving from Connecticut to New York. I am wondering if the components were manufactured by Marlin then it was assembled, drilled / tapped and proofed by Remington?

The fact that the the receiver has a Marlin serial number suggests that the receiver was fully finished prior to assembly and perhaps then the assembly was completed with a Remington made barrel.
The receiver would have been drilled and tapped in a dedicated fixture on an automated machine so the likely hood of gross error is small although there may be a slight allowance for tolerance. A gross error should have been found in inspection and the receiver should have been scrapped or reworked prior to serial numbering.
The same can't be said for your picatinny rail which as likely as not, irrespective of brand, could have come from a Chinese sweat-shop.
All I can suggest is you try a reliable test for alignment.
A simple test which can be done with very basic equipment.
Take a small piece of white paper about as big as the receiver top and screw in the mounting screws into the receiver through the paper.
Now bring a straight edge, like a 300mm steel rule, up to the screw heads and look down. Depending on which side you approach from you will see a gap on the two inner screws or the two outer screws if the holes in fact are out of alignment. The white paper allows you to easily see a gap. This method will allow you to see a gap as little as 1 or 2 thou which is negligible.
If the gap is larger than say 20 thou (half a mm) which can be approximated with a feeler gauge then the strategy to follow is to establish if three of the screws are in line and then doctor the rail to accommodate the fourth screw, as has been suggested by others.
A more enlightening test would be to see how well each of the screws aligns with the centerline of the bore but that is probably beyond the scope of this discussion.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Blr243 » 01 Mar 2022, 10:55 am

At the factory, the final quality control checkmight have taken place late one Friday afternoon
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by Oldbloke » 01 Mar 2022, 4:52 pm

bladeracer wrote:
JimTom wrote:
pomemax wrote:Try another rail before you mess with the gun .
I was fitting a rail to a Marlin Matte 55910 and the holes were no where near where they had to be and the 2nd was countersunk to deep so the screws bottomed out before securing the rail 3 rail worked ok


Pretty confident the rifle is the issue mate, but don’t think I will bother messing with it. I have had a think and reckon I may try modifying a cheap rail first to see if it’s successful, or just go with open or peep sight.


I would try just using two screws, front and rear.

Yep, 2 with some locktite or nail polished is likely to do the job. Or 3 if you can. Or as I mentioned earlier use a needle file.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by grumpy308 » 01 Mar 2022, 10:28 pm

To sort out if it is the rail at fault or the screw holes in the action is not that hard. Fit the front and rear screws in to the action making sure there is some thread still exposed between the screw heads and the action. Get a good metre long steel rule and place it against the left side of the screw threads of the two screws. Adjust the height of the screws so the rule only touches against the threads and not the heads as sometimes the heads are not concentric with the threads. Check the alignment of the other end of the rule in relation to the centre of the muzzle. It should be just a bit to the left of centre. Now swap the rule to the right side of the screws. The rule should be just to the right of the centre of the muzzle. If this is so then the front and rear screw holes in the action are correctly in line. If the rule ends up off to one side of the centre of the muzzle either the action has been drilled incorrectly or the barrel has been poorly fitted and is not true with the action. To check if the four screw holes are in a straight line do as straightshooter has explained. If you can get the rail screwed down (with at least two screws) you can do the same test to the muzzle with the rule against the left and right side of the rail. It should be a bit further out from the centre but even on both sides. Regards Malcolm.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 02 Mar 2022, 6:06 am

Definitely the rifle mate. Have done all the measurements. Absolutely no doubt.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by straightshooter » 02 Mar 2022, 6:23 am

JimTom wrote:Definitely the rifle mate. Have done all the measurements. Absolutely no doubt.

You may have noticed that many forum members are interested in your Marlin, I for one have 3 of them, 2 from the 70's and one from about 2005.
If it's not too late, how about posting a decent picture of the receiver top showing the the 4 empty screw holes.
I for one am curious to see just what this misalignment might look like.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by No1_49er » 02 Mar 2022, 6:32 am

A lot of emphasis in this discussion has been put on the left / right alignment of the rail with respect to the barrel alignment l / r.
It may also be worth remembering that some of the transition Marlin / Remington "assemblies" had appalling vertical alignment too.
Check out some of the Marlin and Lever-Action forums for discussion on barrel droop. In some cases it was severe.
The question then arises, in this specific case, "are the holes parallel with the receiver?". It could be that the barrel is not aligned with the receiver.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by straightshooter » 02 Mar 2022, 7:13 am

Remington quality seemed to plummet after it was taken over by a capital investment company some years ago and it is only natural that it may flow onto their acquired products.
Any defects are more likely in those parts requiring skilled labour for manufacture rather than wholly machine made components.
As for this particular Marlin, a picture is at least a starting point to help point to what may be true problem versus someone's interpretation.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 02 Mar 2022, 9:42 am

When I measured the holes, they were 20 thou out so definitely not parallel to the receiver. Rear two holes were spot on, front two are biased to the left by different amounts creating the left canter on the front mount. I Have put a red dot on it on two piece bases which works fine at this stage. Hard to notice that it’s out with that on it.
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Re: Remlin has been drilled and tapped crooked

Post by JimTom » 02 Mar 2022, 9:43 am

The red dot will suffice for now. As I have eluded too in an earlier post I think I will prob just use open sights anyways.
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