martini henry 7x57R

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martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 18 Apr 2022, 10:52 am

hey fellas , as some of you may know , i've been debating rimmed calibers for a martini henry build i've got coming up . i've looked at the 30-303 for a wider range of projectile choice . 7x57R was suggested as another caliber of merit by blade racer. there is good choice in 7mm projectiles . i initially ruled that out due to the fact that it doesn't have much of a rim and i feared extraction may be a issue . but has anyone had any experience with using this round in the MH action ? the rifle i'm getting is already set up to use the 303 case . it would be simple to stick with 303 i know :roll: could just get a No1 MK3 barrel with sights screwed in , but i want to build a custom along the lines of a 1900's era rifle . 7x57R sorta fits the bill . 275 rigby rimmed :D

i would also like to know if the end of the rear stock on a No1 MK3 enfeild that goes in the "socket" near the trigger is the same as the MH rear stock where it fits into the action . any opinions or insight in the martini henry would be appreciated :thumbsup:
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by No1Mk3 » 18 Apr 2022, 4:27 pm

G'day bigrich, the extractor on a martini Henry works the same as any other falling block or break open gun of the period and a custom made extractor will remove the 7x57R with ease, just as the period Cape Guns and single and double barrel rifles did. I have borrowed a M-H in 30/30 that worked flawlessly. I was once going to build a rifle as you plan in 7x65R, even bought the cases but never got any further. The butt stock option won't work though, too differrent without major reshaping so stick to the Martini wood or get one of the custom hunting butt stocks, Cheers.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by No1Mk3 » 18 Apr 2022, 4:36 pm

Just a thought for something different, what about going up instead of down? There used to be a 303/35 once, and there is still a good choice of 35 caliber bullets available from Hornady spitzer through Rem Core Lokt to Barnes Triple Shock. Go big, bigrich!
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 18 Apr 2022, 4:38 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day bigrich, the extractor on a martini Henry works the same as any other falling block or break open gun of the period and a custom made extractor will remove the 7x57R with ease, just as the period Cape Guns and single and double barrel rifles did. I have borrowed a M-H in 30/30 that worked flawlessly. I was once going to build a rifle as you plan in 7x65R, even bought the cases but never got any further. The butt stock option won't work though, too differrent without major reshaping so stick to the Martini wood or get one of the custom hunting butt stocks, Cheers.


thanks for your reply and input No1 . what sights would you fit if you were doing a similar build ? i've considered the adjustable (williams ?) sights that came out on model 70 winchesters in the 70's . or the vernier adjustable cadet rear sights . any ideas :unknown:

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 18 Apr 2022, 4:43 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:Just a thought for something different, what about going up instead of down? There used to be a 303/35 once, and there is still a good choice of 35 caliber bullets available from Hornady spitzer through Rem Core Lokt to Barnes Triple Shock. Go big, bigrich!


i had definately considered 303-35 . i used to have a 358win model 70 :D .35 cal has good smackdown :lol:

projectile availability is a consideration with this build . i have a few boxes of unwanted 7mm projectiles from load developement with my 7-08 . 7x57R saves me from having to stock another range of projectiles . works well with 2208 and 2209 powder that i run in other calibers

:thumbsup:
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Apr 2022, 5:59 pm

I know it's ho, hum. But must be an option out there for 308cal.
308, cheap and plenty, plenty of options. Far for variety than 7mm. Yes, a tad less efficient than 7mm but the beasts will not complain.

308 Marlin express?
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by LawrenceA » 18 Apr 2022, 6:41 pm

Something left of centre.
The 6.8SPC rimmed.
the SPC is based on the 30 remington which is basically a rimless 30/30.
Sooo you could have a rimmed 6.8Remington SPC Rimmed.
It'd be unique
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 18 Apr 2022, 6:59 pm

Oldbloke wrote:I know it's ho, hum. But must be an option out there for 308cal.
308, cheap and plenty, plenty of options. Far for variety than 7mm. Yes, a tad less efficient than 7mm but the beasts will not complain.

308 Marlin express?


yeah , want to keep it simple with rimmed cases . also want to use a low preasure older cartridge as well . my rifle is 142 years old after all . i had considered 30-30win . cheap and easy . i could use ballistic tip projectiles as well . but 303 has more to offer . 7x57R more again ;)
Last edited by bigrich on 18 Apr 2022, 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 18 Apr 2022, 7:02 pm

LawrenceA wrote:Something left of centre.
The 6.8SPC rimmed.
the SPC is based on the 30 remington which is basically a rimless 30/30.
Sooo you could have a rimmed 6.8Remington SPC Rimmed.
It'd be unique


i appreciate the thought lawrence , but i want to keep things simple . the one caliber left of centre that is interesting to me is 303-35 :P not hard to neck up from standard 303 cases :thumbsup:
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by dnedative » 18 Apr 2022, 7:58 pm

Just keep in mind that if your shooting modern 303 ammunition in a martini your shooting proof loads.
Put enough through one and you will probably crack the rear of the receiver, the Turkish had the same issues with their peabody martini's when they decided to convert them to 7.65x53, they ended up brazing reinforcement plates to both sides of the receiver at the rear.

Anything over 303 chamber pressure and bolt thrust is a bad idea, it will beat the gun to death.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 19 Apr 2022, 7:27 am

dnedative wrote:Just keep in mind that if your shooting modern 303 ammunition in a martini your shooting proof loads.
Put enough through one and you will probably crack the rear of the receiver, the Turkish had the same issues with their peabody martini's when they decided to convert them to 7.65x53, they ended up brazing reinforcement plates to both sides of the receiver at the rear.

Anything over 303 chamber pressure and bolt thrust is a bad idea, it will beat the gun to death.


That’s exactly why I’m being a bit cautious about what caliber I choose. Modern high pressure loads like 308 would not be good for it’s longevity. That’s why I had considered 30-30 . It’s not what you’d call high pressure. I handload and mild 303 or 7x57 loads would suit.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by LawrenceA » 19 Apr 2022, 7:48 am

If you want 7mm but a little less than 7X57 then 7-30 Waters would do it but so would loading down.
One well placed shot is all it takes.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 19 Apr 2022, 8:45 am

LawrenceA wrote:If you want 7mm but a little less than 7X57 then 7-30 Waters would do it but so would loading down.


that was another choice , but keeping mild loads in 7x57r seemed a better idea . 7-30 is a bit more mucking around . 7x57r uses standard dies and brass . i'm still mulling all this over ......... :crazy:
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Apr 2022, 8:47 am

bigrich wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:I know it's ho, hum. But must be an option out there for 308cal.
308, cheap and plenty, plenty of options. Far for variety than 7mm. Yes, a tad less efficient than 7mm but the beasts will not complain.

308 Marlin express?


yeah , want to keep it simple with rimmed cases . also want to use a low preasure older cartridge as well . my rifle is 142 years old after all . i had considered 30-30win . cheap and easy . i could use ballistic tip projectiles as well . but 303 has more to offer . 7x57R more again ;)


Never thought of that. :roll: :crazy:

That being the case, my vote is for 30.30, its an excellent option. KISS
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 19 Apr 2022, 3:52 pm

i've decided to keep it simple . a mate has offered to sell me a heap of 303 reloading gear , so i've ordered a new no1 mk3 H barrel from tbone shipwright . now , anyone got a bsa martini tang sight they want to sell me :P
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by LawrenceA » 19 Apr 2022, 6:30 pm

Too easy
Good luck with the sight.
Just watch your pressures.
Took out new to me Martini Enfield and SMLEmk3's last weekend.
Remington factory loads were pretty damn hot.
Hard to extract with the Mk111 and pressure signs in both.
One well placed shot is all it takes.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by dnedative » 19 Apr 2022, 6:34 pm

The parker hale and BSA sights for the full size martini's are rare as all f***, every couple of years one will pop up for sale if your lucky.
Better off drilling the receiver for the PH25B sight off a BSA international martini, they pop up for sale far more often, just got to get one that comes with the dovetail which the sight mounts on.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 19 Apr 2022, 8:05 pm

dnedative wrote:The parker hale and BSA sights for the full size martini's are rare as all f***, every couple of years one will pop up for sale if your lucky.
Better off drilling the receiver for the PH25B sight off a BSA international martini, they pop up for sale far more often, just got to get one that comes with the dovetail which the sight mounts on.


;) yup , i realise martini peeps are rare . but ya don't know if ya don't ask
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 20 Apr 2022, 7:37 am

LawrenceA wrote:Too easy
Good luck with the sight.
Just watch your pressures.
Took out new to me Martini Enfield and SMLEmk3's last weekend.
Remington factory loads were pretty damn hot.
Hard to extract with the Mk111 and pressure signs in both.


that's unusual for american factory ammo to be "hot" loaded for old milsurps . american ammo is notorious for being weak in old 6.5x55 a 7x57 rifles
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by N.Field » 23 Apr 2022, 8:18 am

bigrich wrote:i've decided to keep it simple . a mate has offered to sell me a heap of 303 reloading gear , so i've ordered a new no1 mk3 H barrel from tbone shipwright . now , anyone got a bsa martini tang sight they want to sell me :P


If this is what you're after I can sell you one that's in very similar condition.

Image



Looks like it will mount okay on a MH:

Image
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 24 Apr 2022, 7:47 am

N.Field wrote:
bigrich wrote:i've decided to keep it simple . a mate has offered to sell me a heap of 303 reloading gear , so i've ordered a new no1 mk3 H barrel from tbone shipwright . now , anyone got a bsa martini tang sight they want to sell me :P


If this is what you're after I can sell you one that's in very similar condition.

Image



Looks like it will mount okay on a MH:

Image


PM sent :thumbsup:
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by gunnnie » 27 Apr 2022, 8:19 pm

I have an 1896 dated ME that's been rebarreled to 303 in very good nick with a 7-8/10 bore.
You can run yours as a cast pill thrower with 200-220gn pills over a mild charge of AR2207. I use CBE's 200gn bore riding style projectiles, powder coated & the load shoots very well out to 300m.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 28 Apr 2022, 6:56 am

gunnnie wrote:I have an 1896 dated ME that's been rebarreled to 303 in very good nick with a 7-8/10 bore.
You can run yours as a cast pill thrower with 200-220gn pills over a mild charge of AR2207. I use CBE's 200gn bore riding style projectiles, powder coated & the load shoots very well out to 300m.


how many grains of 2207 ? i have 2207 and can get my hands on some lead projectiles , hawksbury river i think :thumbsup:
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by in2anity » 29 Apr 2022, 1:32 pm

bigrich wrote:how many grains of 2207 ? i have 2207 and can get my hands on some lead projectiles , hawksbury river i think :thumbsup:


If you plan on running the 180gr GC pill, with a gas check added I'd probs go up to 1900fps. Otherwise without a gas check 1600fps is probably maximum speed, before you'll start seeing gas cutting (and poor accuracy). The 30-30 Single Action data on the ADI website for AR2207 will give you some strong clues into rough area... it's going to be somewhere close to those numbers. BR I can crunch in Quickload if you like to see if i can get close to those velocities?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 29 Apr 2022, 8:57 pm

in2anity wrote:
bigrich wrote:how many grains of 2207 ? i have 2207 and can get my hands on some lead projectiles , hawksbury river i think :thumbsup:


If you plan on running the 180gr GC pill, with a gas check added I'd probs go up to 1900fps. Otherwise without a gas check 1600fps is probably maximum speed, before you'll start seeing gas cutting (and poor accuracy). The 30-30 Single Action data on the ADI website for AR2207 will give you some strong clues into rough area... it's going to be somewhere close to those numbers. BR I can crunch in Quickload if you like to see if i can get close to those velocities?


i appreciate the offer mate but don't go to any trouble . still thinking the lead thing over . if it doesn't give me a good shove in the shoulder i'll probably get bored anyway :D
finallised some loads for my 9.3x62 today . i got some lapua 285gn "mega" projectiles recently . with 65gn of ar2209 you know your shooting :D . cuts a verticle slot at 100 yards and has the same POI as my 250 tsx barnes load . very happy . just gotta find some large ferals to ventilate now..... :lol:
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by LawrenceA » 29 Apr 2022, 9:27 pm

If you gas check and powdercoat you can go up to 2400ish. Paper patch and just keep going to 3000 plus.
Solid lead pills do good on ferals.
One well placed shot is all it takes.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 30 Apr 2022, 10:15 am

LawrenceA wrote:If you gas check and powdercoat you can go up to 2400ish. Paper patch and just keep going to 3000 plus.
Solid lead pills do good on ferals.


Mmmm, too much work for me. The lead projectiles that interest me are the 180gn coated target hawks from Hawkesbury. I would be looking at 1500fps with no gas check to keep it simple. Any quicker and I’ll just use copper jackets 150’s or 174’s are where I’m looking. Especially the 174 hornady RN
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by LawrenceA » 30 Apr 2022, 10:47 am

bigrich wrote:
LawrenceA wrote:If you gas check and powdercoat you can go up to 2400ish. Paper patch and just keep going to 3000 plus.
Solid lead pills do good on ferals.


Mmmm, too much work for me. The lead projectiles that interest me are the 180gn coated target hawks from Hawkesbury. I would be looking at 1500fps with no gas check to keep it simple. Any quicker and I’ll just use copper jackets 150’s or 174’s are where I’m looking. Especially the 174 hornady RN

Too easy then
Looking forward to see how she shoots
One well placed shot is all it takes.
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by bigrich » 30 Apr 2022, 2:43 pm

me too ! :D
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Re: martini henry 7x57R

Post by gunnnie » 11 May 2022, 7:21 pm

Big rich, I'm running 26gn behind the 200gn pc'ed cast pills.
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