barrel cleaning

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barrel cleaning

Post by bigrich » 07 Dec 2022, 7:43 pm

okay guys , i need some insight . i had a new blued barrel done for my 30-06 , and cleaning it is giving me the sh!ts :x it's had about 220 rounds down it

after shooting 20-25 rounds , my cleaning goes like this. hoppes foaming bore cleaner , left for 20 mins , nylon brushed about 8 times , patch out . repeat this process a second time . then patch with hoppes 9 , leaving solvent to soak for 5-10 mins before using clean patch . using this process , i'm spending 7-8 hours and using 60-70 patches to remove copper ! :wtf:
i have other rifles , and have owned others in various calibers, my stainless tikka's are clean with a dozen patches . other chrome-moly barrels take more cleaning than stainless ones, but nothing like this 30-06 . i'm thinking about getting it bore scoped to see what the rifling finish is like . is this normal or an i being overly OCD ?
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by on_one_wheel » 07 Dec 2022, 7:59 pm

Sounds like some epic build up.

Perhaps it wants lapping?
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by bigrich » 07 Dec 2022, 8:14 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Sounds like some epic build up.

Perhaps it wants lapping?


i'm gunna get it bore scoped i reckon . barrel was done by a well known barrel maker/gunsmith in brisbane's west . i've had issues with their work in the past , which is why i use another smith now . i won't speculate till i know more , but a new barrel shouldn't behave like this .
this mob's barrels are advertised as "hand lapped" . i'm starting to doubt that
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Dec 2022, 8:26 pm

Does sound a lot to me.
20 rounds, mine are pretty clean after 2 goes with sweets.
Last edited by Oldbloke on 07 Dec 2022, 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Billo » 07 Dec 2022, 8:35 pm

Maybe start using a bronze brush, i use to use nylon brushes by I find the don't shift copper easily
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Dec 2022, 8:49 pm

Billo wrote:Maybe start using a bronze brush, i use to use nylon brushes by I find the don't shift copper easily


Problem with that is sweets eats the bronze. You can get stainless steel brushes.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by bigrich » 07 Dec 2022, 9:08 pm

i wouldn't expect a barrel as new as mine would need such extensive cleaning after so few rounds . especially from a name brand maker . something smells fishy to me , which is why i'm asking for opinions
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by deye243 » 07 Dec 2022, 10:09 pm

There's a reason I'm not the only one who stopped using sweets not as good as it was 20 years ago me and just about everybody I know have moved onto boretec Eliminator or the copper cutter I think it is I also use their C4 for carbon amazing stuff you can use a nylon brush but you gotta get a very stiff one like the blue iosso brush.
I buy my phosphor bronze brushes by the Dozen and you can use them with sweets just got to be smart about it soon as you scrub that barrel run it under the hot tap you'll find they last a lot longer.
Also one thing I would try until it settles down which it quite possibly will some JB bore paste or iosso bore paste it is a little bit more aggressive but don't worry will not harm your barrel.
If you do decide to go bore paste route under no circumstances use a brush nylon or phosphor bronze must be on a tightly wrapped patch or you will do damage across the tops of the lands
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by animalpest » 07 Dec 2022, 10:34 pm

Not a fan of stainless brushes.
Your first pass is with a wet fairly tight patch. You can't really get the copper out if it's covered with a layer of carbon. It may need 2 of passes.

Then a wet mop or patch. A few passes with a brush and it should be pretty clean.

I used to be a great fan of Hoppes #9 but the new stuff I am not so sure. Seems to have lost its smell and oomph.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by deye243 » 07 Dec 2022, 10:59 pm

[quote="animalpest"]Not a fan of stainless brushes.
Your first pass is with a wet fairly tight patch. You can't really get the copper out if it's covered with a layer of carbon. It may need 2 of passes.

Then a wet mop or patch. A few passes with a brush and it should be pretty clean.

I used to be a great fan of Hoppes #9 but the new stuff I am not so sure. Seems to have lost its smell and oomph.[/quote
]
Yes they changed it about 10 or 12 years ago apparently there were some pretty nasty cancer causing agents in it I used to come home from a nights culling run a wet patch through pick it up in a day or two patch would come out blue it removed copper even though it never really claimed to do it the new stuff i bought a bottle more than 10 years ago still got it at all it's good for was getting powder residue out of the barrel .
The hoppes benchrest copper remover is not bad stuff I bought a large bottle of that a while ago does a really good job .
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by bigrich » 08 Dec 2022, 4:39 am

The hoppe’s bench rest remover is what I’m using. After two applications of foaming bore cleaner with regards to the 30-06. I just use the foaming cleaner once on my other barrels. My stainless tikka 6.5 Swede uses about a dozen patches to clean. The lothar walther on my 303 martini uses double that . My 30-06 barrel needs 7-8 hours of work, and 70-80 patches for 25 shots. Doesn’t sound right . I think the quality of the rifling in my new barrel is in question, not the cleaning products. When it comes to sweets, I won’t use it anymore. Didn’t quite get it all out of a hornet I had . It ate into the side of the lands in a couple of places. I use shellite on patches after using any bore cleaner before a oiled patch these days . Just to make sure I got all the solvent out
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Lazarus » 08 Dec 2022, 7:41 am

Must be something amiss rich.
My Howa has had thousands of rounds through it and there's never been an issue with buildup or accuracy.

All I've ever done is a patch wet with CLP, leave it a couple of minutes, half a dozen passes with the bronze brush, another wet patch of CLP then dry patch until they come out clean.

And that's only if I'm not going to use it for a while, normally just a dry patch after use before it goes to bed.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by bigrich » 08 Dec 2022, 9:11 am

Lazarus wrote:Must be something amiss rich.
My Howa has had thousands of rounds through it and there's never been an issue with buildup or accuracy.

All I've ever done is a patch wet with CLP, leave it a couple of minutes, half a dozen passes with the bronze brush, another wet patch of CLP then dry patch until they come out clean.

And that's only if I'm not going to use it for a while, normally just a dry patch after use before it goes to bed.


What caliber is your howa ? Not that it matters in this case. The accuracy of my 30-06 is good, but the amount of copper buildup is horrendous. Hopefully a bore scope will reveal more
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Lazarus » 08 Dec 2022, 10:51 am

bigrich wrote:
Lazarus wrote:Must be something amiss rich.
My Howa has had thousands of rounds through it and there's never been an issue with buildup or accuracy.

All I've ever done is a patch wet with CLP, leave it a couple of minutes, half a dozen passes with the bronze brush, another wet patch of CLP then dry patch until they come out clean.

And that's only if I'm not going to use it for a while, normally just a dry patch after use before it goes to bed.


What caliber is your howa ? Not that it matters in this case. The accuracy of my 30-06 is good, but the amount of copper buildup is horrendous. Hopefully a bore scope will reveal more


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I could be talking out my blurter, but the reason I use CLP is that I read that even after patching dry, it leaves a nano level coating, hence the "preserve" in CLP, perhaps that somehow contributes to the lack of copper.
Whenever I do a clean it's only ever carbon I seem to get.
There's no doubt some level of copper but not a visible level.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by bigrich » 09 Dec 2022, 3:39 pm

well fellas , i got down my local GS this afternoon , but i was misinformed about them having a borescope . however , they did have a magnifying bore light. according to the owner the bore looks well finished , buut the rifling looks really deep . could this be the cause of my frustration in this rifle barrel needing so much effort with copper removal ? i'm still going to get it bore scoped anyway for peace of mind .
one thing that was suggested was a change to "bore tech" brand copper remover . i'll give this stuff a go . apparently the hoppe's 9 bench rest solvent i've been using has ammonia in it , same as sweet's .

my stainless tikka 6.5 tikka looks better in my eye's now due to the lack of effort to clean it :D
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by deye243 » 09 Dec 2022, 4:01 pm

bigrich wrote:well fellas , i got down my local GS this afternoon , but i was misinformed about them having a borescope . however , they did have a magnifying bore light. according to the owner the bore looks well finished , buut the rifling looks really deep . could this be the cause of my frustration in this rifle barrel needing so much effort with copper removal ? i'm still going to get it bore scoped anyway for peace of mind .
one thing that was suggested was a change to "bore tech" brand copper remover . i'll give this stuff a go . apparently the hoppe's 9 bench rest solvent i've been using has ammonia in it , same as sweet's .

my stainless tikka 6.5 tikka looks better in my eye's now due to the lack of effort to clean it :D

Apply liberally and do not be afraid to leave it in the barrel for an hour plus muzzle down then you dip your phosphor bronze in it and scrub it about 15 times then run the brush under the hot tap patch out and repeat and repeat
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by deye243 » 09 Dec 2022, 4:02 pm

And another thing your barrel does not have to be squeaky clean to shoot well most of the time even with my long-range rifles I will only clean them when I start missing sometimes that's over 85 rounds sometimes it's less
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Apollo » 09 Dec 2022, 4:06 pm

Try out BoreTech Eliminator. Use Stainless / Aluminium Jags and the likes of a Pro Shot Micro Polished one piece cleaning rod.

Always store your rifle with a slight coating of gun oil in the bore.

Patch it out with shellite then use the Bore Tech. First couple push through then let one sit for awhile. You can leave the Eliminator overnight if you like.
Use and or cut patches so they are not tight. After the first couple of Bore Tech patches then cycle them (scrub) the bore then push out. Maybe another should come out clean then one with Shellite and let dry before use or a light oil on one a store your rifle away, don't forget to patch before use.

I use a tight patch as the last one in the cycle. I buy patches square and round Pro Shot from BRT.

Maybe the throat is a bit rough but I doubt it, maybe try a couple of JB Bore Paste runs.

If you have a copper problem you should be able to see the copper at the muzzle end.

I gave up with Sweets and Hoppies decades ago.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by scoot » 09 Dec 2022, 4:20 pm

https://teslong.com/collections/rifle-borescopes
Save the guesswork, buy a borescope. They're pretty cheap but very handy. You don't need to use it many times and it will pay for itself if only in fuel driving around to borrow someone else's..
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Apollo » 09 Dec 2022, 4:29 pm

Not worth a cent unless you have the experience to realise what you are looking at.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by scoot » 09 Dec 2022, 4:42 pm

How do you get experience???
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Apollo » 09 Dec 2022, 4:56 pm

scoot wrote:How do you get experience???


By doing a lot of looking with a proper Bore Scope and getting the advice from the likes of a Gunsmith who knows what he is doing and then comparing notes and listening to his/her advice on what you see.

I won't do it. I take a trip to my Gunsmith who's been in the business for way over 50 years and he will check my barrels, usually for free and just the chance to catch up with stuff. If anything needs work he will advise and I leave it with him.

Last visit was a check of my competition rifle bore and he said it has a touch of carbon in the throat, buy some Upper Engine Cleaner leave it in the sun and give it a soak whilst warm/hot. No charge.

He is the consultant Gunsmith for the NRAA and shoots Fullbore/F-Class. I'm a Benchrest Shooter and he knows I have a few skills he doesn't. Great bloke and certainly worth the near 3 hours it takes me to visit including the hour we talk for over things.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Lazarus » 09 Dec 2022, 5:00 pm

Apollo wrote:
scoot wrote:How do you get experience???


By doing a lot of looking with a proper Bore Scope and getting the advice from the likes of a Gunsmith who knows what he is doing and then comparing notes and listening to his/her advice on what you see.

I won't do it. I take a trip to my Gunsmith who's been in the business for way over 50 years and he will check my barrels, usually for free and just the chance to catch up with stuff. If anything needs work he will advise and I leave it with him.

Last visit was a check of my competition rifle bore and he said it has a touch of carbon in the throat, buy some Upper Engine Cleaner leave it in the sun and give it a soak whilst warm/hot. No charge.

He is the consultant Gunsmith for the NRAA and shoots Fullbore/F-Class. I'm a Benchrest Shooter and he knows I have a few skills he doesn't. Great bloke and certainly worth the near 3 hours it takes me to visit including the hour we talk for over things.


Sorry Apollo, but you seem to be contracting yourself.

You say "don't bother unless you have experience" then say that the only way to get the experience is by bothering to do so.

Can't have it both ways.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by LawrenceA » 09 Dec 2022, 5:02 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Does sound a lot to me.
20 rounds, mine are pretty clean after 2 goes with sweets.

Sweets is brilliant on copper but cannot be left in the bore.
There is another the fly shooters use that is supposed to perform almost as well as sweets but is OK to leave in the bore. Can't recall the name.
If you push a tight patch through is it smooth? Are there loose/high/rough spots??
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Apollo » 09 Dec 2022, 5:10 pm

Lazarus wrote:
Apollo wrote:
scoot wrote:How do you get experience???


By doing a lot of looking with a proper Bore Scope and getting the advice from the likes of a Gunsmith who knows what he is doing and then comparing notes and listening to his/her advice on what you see.

I won't do it. I take a trip to my Gunsmith who's been in the business for way over 50 years and he will check my barrels, usually for free and just the chance to catch up with stuff. If anything needs work he will advise and I leave it with him.

Last visit was a check of my competition rifle bore and he said it has a touch of carbon in the throat, buy some Upper Engine Cleaner leave it in the sun and give it a soak whilst warm/hot. No charge.

He is the consultant Gunsmith for the NRAA and shoots Fullbore/F-Class. I'm a Benchrest Shooter and he knows I have a few skills he doesn't. Great bloke and certainly worth the near 3 hours it takes me to visit including the hour we talk for over things.


Sorry Apollo, but you seem to be contracting yourself.

You say "don't bother unless you have experience" then say that the only way to get the experience is by bothering to do so.

Can't have it both ways.


That is not what I said at all.

Don't bother unless you have experience.

But if you want to learn then go and visit someone that has experience so that you can get explained to you what you are looking at...even if it costs you money. Don't guess at what is not there.

Does that make it simple for you....

FMD some people. :crazy:
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by bigrich » 09 Dec 2022, 5:17 pm

the bore tech eliminator is the solvent recommended by my local GS , but the copper remover is all he had in stock . had a good chat with my smith on the phone after my last post . i'm going to get him to bore scope it , it might reveal something . he also suggested maybe this barrel might settle down after some more rounds , and it's not uncommon for a barrel from a qaulity maker to behave like this sometimes apparently . i'll see how she goes . accuracy is good , and doesn't drop off . :thumbsup:
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by scoot » 09 Dec 2022, 5:17 pm

Congratulations :clap:
I prefer to save time by using my "not worth a cent" scope to see carbon that's easily removed. Save the gunsmith "favours" for when I might really need them.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Apollo » 09 Dec 2022, 5:26 pm

scoot wrote:Congratulations :clap:
I prefer to save time by using my "not worth a cent" scope to see carbon that's easily removed. Save the gunsmith "favours" for when I might really need them.


Well.....In some cases Carbon is not easily removed.

Ever heard of a Carbon Ring that chemicals will not remove.

Please yourself.
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by deye243 » 09 Dec 2022, 5:56 pm

bigrich wrote:the bore tech eliminator is the solvent recommended by my local GS , but the copper remover is all he had in stock . had a good chat with my smith on the phone after my last post . i'm going to get him to bore scope it , it might reveal something . he also suggested maybe this barrel might settle down after some more rounds , and it's not uncommon for a barrel from a qaulity maker to behave like this sometimes apparently . i'll see how she goes . accuracy is good , and doesn't drop off . :thumbsup:

If a good barrel has not settled down within 100 rounds it's not going to average barrel can be 150 to 200
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Re: barrel cleaning

Post by Lazarus » 09 Dec 2022, 6:11 pm

"That is not what I said at all."


Goodness, you are a touchy old girl, huh?

""Don't bother unless you have experience""

""How do you get experience???""

""By doing a lot of looking with a proper Bore Scope""

Sounds like a contradiction to me.

Even though every comment of yours is heavily flavoured with vinegar, and all you ever seem to do here is complain about other users and how useless and stupid we are you're still here.
Like a lingering egg fart.

I wasn't trying to start an argument with you, but you just can't help but snap at people and that's why people snap back at you.

Why not try contributing something without your usual scorn for us peasants.
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