Removing surface rust

[fnq22]

Wondering if there is any possibility of removing the surface rust on this 1970 vintage Model 94 30-30 without removing the adjacent bluing..?..Gun otherwise is in excellent condition...

[Wapiti]

Don't sand or wire wheel it off!
You'll remove the bluing!
If you can disassemble the gun, get the parts affected and boil them in water for 30-40 minutes.
Degrease the parts first, and nothing else.

The rust will turn from red to a black oxide... which is bluing.
You then steelwool the now black rust off, revealing perfect blended in original bluing

Anything else will show, and cold blue is awful and will not match the original around it ever.

You can make a boiling pot for a barrelled action out of a short piece of roof guttering with the standard ends fitted, using a high temp silicone. Of course, you'd sit your gas burner in the middle anyway.
Small parts- use a stainless billy of the right size.

Doing anything else, will not look original, and devalue your gun forever.
Any pits left... well they will still be there but hardly visible.

Edit: might seem like a pain in the arse making a long pot for the barrelled action, but all you'll need is distilled water to boil it in, and fine steel wool from Bunnings. No chemicals, no dangerous acid bath. You will learn to disassemble your lever gun, and give it a good clean at the same time.

[fnq22]

Wow mate thanks for such a detailed answer...never would have thought of boiling a gun...!

I couldnt really see a way other then a very light sand with wet and dry paper but obviously as you mention the blung beside the rust will also go.

With disassembly, should i remove the internals and trigger assembly as well, or can I get away with just the woodwork..?

and what do you mean by"degrease the parts first but nothing else"..?

[Wapiti]

You can get away with leaving it all together, but try and degrease the heck out of it first.
Take any wood off of course.
By degrease... a petrol bath first, then spray down with brake cleaner etc.
The most important thing is to have the rust spots completely oil free.
The rusty bits are not disturbed or sanded in any way until boiled.

When you pull it out of the boiling water, it is obviously 100'c, so it'll self dry.
The only issue really is that the oil hiding in the pinned and screwed action parts will boil out and you'll need to get them lubed again later with a squirt of good lube.

[Wapiti]

As soon as the water has dried off after the gun comes out, use very fine steel wool only on the rust area, sweeping across the flat section of the action.
Very fine steel wool will do it. No rough steel wool ever!
Anything other than super fine steel wool will cut the original bluing off the surface.

Then check it out. If there's still 3-dimensional rust present, if the rust was really thick, it might have to go back in again.

I've seen so many guns attacked with sandpaper or wire wheels on drills and grinders. It just makes the repair 9bvious and rips off the deep original bluing. Cold blue never matches the surface around it, and rubs off in a stiff breeze.

You can do a cold blue job if you want. This way is a bit of work, but how the professionals do it. After all, somebody let the gun rust through poor maintenance, and restoration is the only real thing you can do to make amends.
But it's always up to you.

[No1Mk3]

Personally would use brass wool, harder to find nowadays but I have bought it from art supplies shops. An old method was to wipe the rust with an oil wet cloth and rub with a copper coin. If you do use wire wool use the finest grade you can get.

[Billo]

Personally would use brass wool, harder to find nowadays but I have bought it from art supplies shops. An old method was to wipe the rust with an oil wet cloth and rub with a copper coin. If you do use wire wool use the finest grade you can get.

Bronze wool 0000 grade is what you use with a light oil, dont work the metal work too hard and all the rust will come away

https://windowcleaningsupplies.com.au/b ... -pack.html

[Wapiti]

Professionals will use what's called a "carding' wheel.
It's a wire buff you stick on your bench grinder, but the wires are so fine and high tensile that it won't rip up your skin if you accidentally get caught by it.
I don't want to upset anyone but brass isn't a good idea. Please don't suggest incorrect advice unless you have found out the hard way. You don't want to introduce non-ferrous metal into the surface or into this process. That's why the carding wheel is such a specialised buff, it's high tensile steel, the very fine wires do the job without stripping off the top layer of steel i.e. the converted steel blued layer. Should you have to repeat the process, don't use brass. We want a blue-black colour here, and a complete surface conversion. Not contaminated.
Thata why a carding wheel for rust bluing isn't brass, isn't stainless.
It's used specifically for removing the rust after the black oxide conversion... boiling.

0000 steel wool is what you use. Four zeros. If you can't get it today, wait until you do. If the stuff at the hardware isn't the correct grade, don't use it. Industrial supply outlets will have it too as they're real reliable tradie suppliers.

[Billo]

Wapiti Ive used both 0000 steel wool and bronze wool and there is a clear winner

Brass wool is softer then steel wool, it will take a little longer but is better on bluing, Ive been using it for 20 plus years

[No1Mk3]

Mea Culpa, I meant to say bronze wool, (Cheers Billo) but I have also used brass wool with very good results. I never recommend what I have not personally used and in this case dozens upon dozens of conserved firearms and other mecanical devices have passed through my hands without any problems. A carding wheel would be nice but I don't have one, and the last shotgun I restored, which came out of a Mallee farmers dam after unknown time, came up fine using bronze wool and Baby Oil. I have also used the oil/penny method on guns and motorcycle parts with good results. Go carefully, bit at a time and be prepared to repeat the process.

[Wapiti]

Guys, I agree with you when using it to remove rust from stuff, gently. Without boiling to convert rust.
Actually, my opinion of your choices that I'd never do it with that medium you bring up, I would think twice then use a Scotch-Brite lubed with WD-40 to float off the rust but what that does is remove the rust that's formed on the blue. With the blue and the resulting patchy look then, out comes the bodgy cold-blue.

What old mate has got on his lever, is much too far advanced for the backyard shed process.

But I'm talking about something else, contamination with a ferrous metal when doing rust bluing, which is exactly what we are doing here, If we use non-ferrous materials when removing the boiled rust which has been converted to (basically) bluing by using the chemical process that has already occurred (rusting), if you have to do this process twice you will just have ruined the result. Because you will have contaminated the surface.

This is not a pissing contest. I have done this a number of times, and will not post anything that isn't a sincere, best-practice procedure.
The OP will make his own mind up. Good luck to you, fnq22.
I hope you blokes don't try HF Tig welding of Alum. You'll understand contaminants and oxides then alright.

I'm done with this thread, spent enough time trying to help someone with a process I've actually done numerous times, and learned what screws it up too..

[straightshooter]

Notwithstanding the sound advice offered by earlier posters I suggest the OP try this first as the rust may appear to be more dramatic in the picture than in reality.
Try rubbing the rusted areas with a dense cloth such as denim or canvas well moistened with a light oil such as Inox and turning to a fresh area of cloth when the area of cloth being used becomes clogged. You might find that the affected areas are far less noticeable due to the remaining iron nitrate matrix retaining some of the oil while the red rust is flushed away. Trying this as a first step you have nothing to lose.
In general it is good practice to always wipe down blued metal parts with an oil moistened cloth after handling more so if you live in a hot and/or humid environment.
The blued parts in the picture look very dry.

[Die Judicii]

One product that none of you guys has mentioned is something I have used successfully for many years.
It can do large areas,,,,, but also is particularly suited for what is pictured on the OP's gun.
It can also be used on extremely small spots of rust by applying from the tip of a tiny brush,, or even by the tip of a sewing needle dipped in it.

It is a product called Phosphoric Acid and it converts the rust (ferrous oxide) by chemical reaction to a stable product (phosphoric oxide) which when dry can be painted or otherwise treated or blued.

It (in its pure form) is a watery liquid that looks like urine.
It works best if the rust is wiped with a water damp cloth or mist spray of water first.
Apply the Phosphoric acid (while the surface is still damp) direct to the rust only.
Wait a couple hours,, or overnight.
The treated surface will be slightly sticky/gummy and with whiteish fuzzy edges.
Wipe it down well with a water damp cloth, and allow to dry.
What was rust will now be black, and non reactive and chemically stable.
The surface can be left as is,, or painted with no need of any primer,,,, or blued.