Baldrick314 wrote:Are dies for this readily available or will you have to get them custom made?
Rocker wrote:What does a custom die cost
Probably a scary number.
bigrich wrote:I’m resurrecting a old post, thinking about a custom build on a full size martini. Yes , I know standard 303 is more straightforward. But 30-303 opens up projectiles choice immensely. Possibly get the smith to modify a 30-30win FL die the same time as the barrel chamber gets done . Opinions anyone?
in2anity wrote:bigrich wrote:I’m resurrecting a old post, thinking about a custom build on a full size martini. Yes , I know standard 303 is more straightforward. But 30-303 opens up projectiles choice immensely. Possibly get the smith to modify a 30-30win FL die the same time as the barrel chamber gets done . Opinions anyone?
Would a 30-30 be an option? Just thinking reamers and dies and cases - and you could run any .308” spitzer…
bigrich wrote:Yeah, I had considered 30-30. From what research I’ve done on other forums, it’s just not fast enough to get a gain using ballistic tip projectiles.
bigrich wrote:I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge
bladeracer wrote:buy your bullets now instead of waiting until you need some, availability becomes irrelevant when they're sitting on your shelf.
bladeracer wrote:bigrich wrote:I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge
7x57R maybe? Virtually identical to .303 but with the advantages of 7mm long-range aerodynamics and excellent bullet choice from 78gn to 215gn.
But really I would just use .303 and buy your bullets now instead of waiting until you need some, availability becomes irrelevant when they're sitting on your shelf.
bigrich wrote:i've considered 7x57r blade , but like the idea of 30 cal better . much wider choice in 30 cal over 303 , which is the prime consideration in my plans . 303 projectiles are just about unobtainable for me at the moment , but there's still plenty of 30 cal stuff about . 303 brass is much easier to find than 7x57R as well
bladeracer wrote:bigrich wrote:i've considered 7x57r blade , but like the idea of 30 cal better . much wider choice in 30 cal over 303 , which is the prime consideration in my plans . 303 projectiles are just about unobtainable for me at the moment , but there's still plenty of 30 cal stuff about . 303 brass is much easier to find than 7x57R as well
I'm sure any barrel maker can ream you a .303 chamber in a .308" barrel.
Are you building this for shooting steel and paper or for hunting?
I don't think I've tried any .308" bullets in the .303's, it's possible a heavy flat-base bullet might work okay, I must try that. I know people have used .308" bullets relatively successfully in Mosins, though probably not for competition.
7x57R brass is not common, but is around. I ordered some from Rebels a couple years ago.
bigrich wrote:Yeah, I had considered 30-30. From what research I’ve done on other forums, it’s just not fast enough to get a gain using ballistic tip projectiles. 303 British should give decent speed due to more case capacity.
I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge
in2anity wrote:bigrich wrote:Yeah, I had considered 30-30. From what research I’ve done on other forums, it’s just not fast enough to get a gain using ballistic tip projectiles. 303 British should give decent speed due to more case capacity.
I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge
BR I crunched it last night and indeed squeezing 2500fps from a 155gr out of the 30-30 is just impossible, even with a 26" barrel. Best you'd do would probs be 2350fps and that's pushing it. You are right, 303 is a better option. I am still wondering about 303-30 dies though... I have have seen 303-30s on the line before - you must be able to get them made. Is simplex still around?
in2anity wrote:bigrich wrote:Yeah, I had considered 30-30. From what research I’ve done on other forums, it’s just not fast enough to get a gain using ballistic tip projectiles. 303 British should give decent speed due to more case capacity.
I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge
BR I crunched it last night and indeed squeezing 2500fps from a 155gr out of the 30-30 is just impossible, even with a 26" barrel. Best you'd do would probs be 2350fps and that's pushing it. You are right, 303 is a better option. I am still wondering about 303-30 dies though... I have have seen 303-30s on the line before - you must be able to get them made. Is simplex still around?
bladeracer wrote:in2anity wrote:bigrich wrote:Yeah, I had considered 30-30. From what research I’ve done on other forums, it’s just not fast enough to get a gain using ballistic tip projectiles. 303 British should give decent speed due to more case capacity.
I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge
BR I crunched it last night and indeed squeezing 2500fps from a 155gr out of the 30-30 is just impossible, even with a 26" barrel. Best you'd do would probs be 2350fps and that's pushing it. You are right, 303 is a better option. I am still wondering about 303-30 dies though... I have have seen 303-30s on the line before - you must be able to get them made. Is simplex still around?
Do you need dies?
Just a standard .303 die with .306" expander on the mandrel should do the trick, unless the shoulder is different.
If the .303 die is not reducing the neck enough you could use any .308" die that has enough length and room for the .303 case to fit into it.
bigrich wrote:not sure about 308 dies blade . the taper and shoulder might clash with the more pronounced taper of the 303 . i'll get something to work
bladeracer wrote:bigrich wrote:not sure about 308 dies blade . the taper and shoulder might clash with the more pronounced taper of the 303 . i'll get something to work
I wasn't referring to .308Win dies, though they should work fine as the .308 is a significantly shorter case with a larger shoulder so it shouldn't touch the .303 case except around the neck.
in2anity wrote:Would the 308 collet die work without affecting the shoulder?
bladeracer wrote:in2anity wrote:Would the 308 collet die work without affecting the shoulder?
I have .308 collet dies so I might be able to try it, if I can find a few minutes to try
straightshooter wrote:One has to be conscious of how a Lee collet die works.
The 303 case is a little longer than a 308 case so things will get squeezed in the wrong places.
It might however work acceptably if you fabricate a washer about 0.220" thick to sit on the shell holder over the 303 case.
in2anity wrote:Ok just had yet another "I'm an idiot" moment - how about this - a Lee 303 collet die, only with the 308 mandrel screwed in instead of the factory 303 mandrel (the mandrels are replaceable). Just FLS with a standard 303, then collet die with aforementioned it to bring the neck down to 308. Bob's your uncle.
bladeracer wrote:Do you mean put a .308 collet and expander into a .303 collet die? The collet sizes the neck down, then you draw the expander back through to open it up to size to hold the bullet.
That may well work, but it might be sufficient to simply remove the expander and leave the neck under-sized by the .303 die.
in2anity wrote:Just confirmed swapping the mandrels worked fine - the 308 mandrel yields plenty of enough neck tension for a 308 pill in the 303 brass. Perfect for the Martini action whereby you are single feeding anyway.