303\30

Improving and repairing firearms. Rifle bedding, barrel work, stock replacement and other ways to improve your firearms.

303\30

Post by beerhog » 15 Oct 2014, 8:13 pm

Today I bought myself a m17 in 303-22 for a good price. Now I intend on making this a project and rebarreling in either 303 or more likely if I can into a 303 epps.

If I use a .308 barrel is it as simple as running the reamer in and good to go or would the ever so slightly smaller bore complicate things somehow? I really like the idea of a wider range of readily available bullets in 308 than 311 so am hoping it will work.

And I have no interest in any other cartridges I want a 303 because I can and that is what I want regardless of cost or resaleability. This one is for me to enjoy and pass down to my kids one day.

Also is there anyone in melbourne that would be recommended for this sort of job?
beerhog
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 41
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by MeccaOz » 16 Oct 2014, 1:47 am

Cant help you with Melbourne smiths mate, sounds like a great project though ... Kinda gets the 303 juices flowing :)
User avatar
MeccaOz
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1013
Western Australia

Re: 303\30

Post by 1290 » 16 Oct 2014, 11:25 am

if you want a 303 and want to pass it down.... just fit a standard bore barrel! There are plenty of 312 projjies around...

the 303Brit barrel is 303/314, while the projjies are 312, 308 projjies are 309, so theyre a little more undersized than standard 303 projectiles, if you're following. Give them a go in the 303 barrel! Else, if you want to shoot 308, chmber it or another rifle to 308win....

The reamer rides the bore, so an undersized bore probably wont work with the 303 reamer
User avatar
1290
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1336
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by Korkt » 17 Oct 2014, 12:36 pm

Interesting project BH.

Above my knowledge sorry but interested to see the result you get.
User avatar
Korkt
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 265
New South Wales

Re: 303\30

Post by beerhog » 17 Oct 2014, 2:32 pm

The project is going ahead. I've found someone who is willing to give it a go. If they can't do it on the 308 barrel I will settle on 311 but would prefer not to.

The smith isn't available till next year so now it's a patient waiting game.
beerhog
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 41
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by schink » 19 Oct 2014, 9:04 am

A year, damn.

Hope it turns out good for that wait :lol:
User avatar
schink
Private
Private
 
Posts: 74
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 13 Nov 2014, 10:38 pm

Try Sprinter Ams in Vic,,, sorry don't have a number or link, but never fear....Google is always here...they can do the barrel change over and have chamber reamers if you go down the 30/303 road....

FYI I did a 30/303 on a number 4 action a long time ago,,, and its STILL my fav scrub/ute/knock a about, when I don't want to take the good stuff out..

Collector 1
More Brno's than you can poke a stick at..!!!!
COLLECTOR 1
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 216
New South Wales

Re: 303\30

Post by Warrigul » 14 Nov 2014, 9:34 am

I have a couple of .303's that are accurate with .30 cal projectiles, they need to be flat based however.

It is very dependant on the state of the barrel.
Warrigul
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1103
-

Re: 303\30

Post by padaro » 16 Nov 2014, 9:47 pm

It doesn't like boat tails Warrigul?

How's the state of the barrel effect that?
padaro
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 31
Queensland

Re: 303\30

Post by Warrigul » 17 Nov 2014, 6:12 am

padaro wrote:It doesn't like boat tails Warrigul?

How's the state of the barrel effect that?


Flat base projectiles seem to shoot better in .303's when it comes to .30 cal projectiles, even .311 or .312's are better in flat base. Don't get me wrong, boat tails are still okay in .303's but if a bit worn a flat base will go better. The base of the bullet deforms to suit the bore.

There is no predicting with a .303, even rough bores sometimes shoot well.

My favorite has a rusty bore but is accurate.
Warrigul
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1103
-

Re: 303\30

Post by 1290 » 17 Nov 2014, 7:43 am

Might be to do with the bearing surface of the bullet, the flat base bullet has a longer 'shank' to grab the rifling... the standard 303 proj is already undersized to the groove diameter, so when you use an even smaller proj (0.309 vs 0.312) with even less rifling 'bite'; you need all the shank possible as it wobbles down the bore.. ;) .....
User avatar
1290
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1336
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by Warrigul » 17 Nov 2014, 9:13 am

1290 wrote:Might be to do with the bearing surface of the bullet, the flat base bullet has a longer 'shank' to grab the rifling... the standard 303 proj is already undersized to the groove diameter, so when you use an even smaller proj (0.309 vs 0.312) with even less rifling 'bite'; you need all the shank possible as it wobbles down the bore.. ;) .....


Yes as a general rule the longer bearing surface projectiles are better but even the 125 grain spitzers with comparatively little shank but a flat base shoot better than the equivalent in 123 for the 7.62x39 with a boat tail. Recovered projectiles are usually well engraved with the flat bases sometimes not so much with the boat tail equivalents.

Rifling bite is mainly dependent on the projectiles obdurating.

The .303's are a pretty crappy setup when you look at it closely. My favorite shouldn't shoot well but it does, a real bitch to clean too, pays to stay away from bore past and smoothing out with a .303(which would be the logical step for a rough bore).
Warrigul
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1103
-

Re: 303\30

Post by Vati » 18 Nov 2014, 8:23 am

padaro wrote:It doesn't like boat tails Warrigul?

How's the state of the barrel effect that?


Flat base are popular in more than just old rifles. For the same reasons explained above on bearing surface against the rifling etc. they're used by a lot of target shootings for medium range target shooting. 300m is a bit of a rule of thumb. They can be seriously accurate, better than boat tails at the shorter distances at times.
Reach out and touch...
User avatar
Vati
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 426
New South Wales

Re: 303\30

Post by beerhog » 26 Apr 2015, 9:30 pm

Got my 303-308 Epps back a couple of weeks ago and finally got it out over the weekend for a shoot. It was shooting .9 moa with fireform loads using 45 grains of 2209 under a Remington 180 grain projie.can't wait to load up the cases with proper epps loads and see what she can do.a big thank you to Adrian styles for his work on my new favourite
beerhog
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 41
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by Varmtr » 29 Apr 2015, 11:30 pm

Th M17 action Winchester, Rem or Eddystone ? The M17 was originally for the 3006 just make sure it feeds the 303 round properly as feed rails may need machining.

Beerhog the 303 Epps and the wildcats versions are bloody good cartridges.
Varmtr
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 195
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by 1290 » 30 Apr 2015, 8:54 am

Varmtr wrote:Th M17 action Winchester, Rem or Eddystone ? The M17 was originally for the 3006 just make sure it feeds the 303 round properly as feed rails may need machining.

Beerhog the 303 Epps and the wildcats versions are bloody good cartridges.



M17 was born 30-06 but originally 303Brit..... and originally originally 276Enfield... :lol:

[[ Pattern 1913 development in 276 Enfield round, Became Pattern of 1914 back in old trusty 303Brit..... Manufactured in USA for UK as P14 then also produced as Model of 1917 in 30-06 for US Gov't]]
User avatar
1290
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1336
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by Baldrick314 » 30 Apr 2015, 11:57 am

Are dies for this readily available or will you have to get them custom made?
.177, .22lr, .22-250R, 2x .308W, .30-30W, 7.62x54r, 8x56r, 9x19, .357 Mag, 12GA
User avatar
Baldrick314
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 980
New South Wales

Re: 303\30

Post by Varmtr » 01 May 2015, 2:28 am

Baldrick CH4D have dies your you can get Simplex to make them or they may even have them in stock.
Varmtr
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 195
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by Baldrick314 » 01 May 2015, 5:53 am

Thanks Varmtr
.177, .22lr, .22-250R, 2x .308W, .30-30W, 7.62x54r, 8x56r, 9x19, .357 Mag, 12GA
User avatar
Baldrick314
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 980
New South Wales

Re: 303\30

Post by Rocker » 04 May 2015, 2:36 pm

Baldrick314 wrote:Are dies for this readily available or will you have to get them custom made?


What does a custom die cost :unknown:

Probably a scary number.
Sako A7 30-06
Marlin 1895 Guide Gun 45-70
User avatar
Rocker
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 266
South Australia

Re: 303\30

Post by Varmtr » 04 May 2015, 10:27 pm

Going through Simplex for memory they were pretty reasonable, all they need is few fired cases so they know the chamber dimension you have.
As I'm getting things organised for a 25/303 Epps so will be chasing dies for this.
Varmtr
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 195
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by VICHunter » 05 May 2015, 10:48 am

Rocker wrote:What does a custom die cost :unknown:

Probably a scary number.


I have noticed on websites of people offering them that a price is never listed.

That's never a good sign :lol:
User avatar
VICHunter
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 623
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by bigrich » 11 Apr 2022, 7:37 am

I’m resurrecting a old post, thinking about a custom build on a full size martini. Yes , I know standard 303 is more straightforward. But 30-303 opens up projectiles choice immensely. Possibly get the smith to modify a 30-30win FL die the same time as the barrel chamber gets done . Opinions anyone?
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4008
Queensland

Re: 303\30

Post by in2anity » 11 Apr 2022, 9:42 pm

bigrich wrote:I’m resurrecting a old post, thinking about a custom build on a full size martini. Yes , I know standard 303 is more straightforward. But 30-303 opens up projectiles choice immensely. Possibly get the smith to modify a 30-30win FL die the same time as the barrel chamber gets done . Opinions anyone?

Would a 30-30 be an option? Just thinking reamers and dies and cases - and you could run any .308” spitzer…
I'm a "salt on pizza" kinda guy...
User avatar
in2anity
Major
Major
 
Posts: 2794
New South Wales

Re: 303\30

Post by bigrich » 12 Apr 2022, 7:18 am

in2anity wrote:
bigrich wrote:I’m resurrecting a old post, thinking about a custom build on a full size martini. Yes , I know standard 303 is more straightforward. But 30-303 opens up projectiles choice immensely. Possibly get the smith to modify a 30-30win FL die the same time as the barrel chamber gets done . Opinions anyone?

Would a 30-30 be an option? Just thinking reamers and dies and cases - and you could run any .308” spitzer…


Yeah, I had considered 30-30. From what research I’ve done on other forums, it’s just not fast enough to get a gain using ballistic tip projectiles. 303 British should give decent speed due to more case capacity.
I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4008
Queensland

Re: 303\30

Post by in2anity » 12 Apr 2022, 8:11 am

bigrich wrote:Yeah, I had considered 30-30. From what research I’ve done on other forums, it’s just not fast enough to get a gain using ballistic tip projectiles.

I reckon if you kept your weights down - perhaps a 155gr palma bullet, you could squeeze out 2500fps. I'll crunch the numbers when I get home tonight and see if 2500fps is possible, while still staying under 42kpsi. A 155gr (.470bc) at 2500fps will be no slouch - still supersonic at 500m. Barrel length will be your friend, with something like AR2208.
I'm a "salt on pizza" kinda guy...
User avatar
in2anity
Major
Major
 
Posts: 2794
New South Wales

Re: 303\30

Post by bladeracer » 12 Apr 2022, 9:11 am

bigrich wrote:I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge :thumbsup:


7x57R maybe? Virtually identical to .303 but with the advantages of 7mm long-range aerodynamics and excellent bullet choice from 78gn to 215gn.

But really I would just use .303 and buy your bullets now instead of waiting until you need some, availability becomes irrelevant when they're sitting on your shelf.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11305
Victoria

Re: 303\30

Post by in2anity » 12 Apr 2022, 10:02 am

bladeracer wrote:buy your bullets now instead of waiting until you need some, availability becomes irrelevant when they're sitting on your shelf.

Very true - over the years I thought I went overboard buying Sierra Matchkings (in .224, .308 and .311) at every "bargain" opportunity (including deceased estates selloffs and whenever specials popped up). But now I'm burning through them at a rate of knots and can't easily get them at reasonable prices anymore. No regrets.
I'm a "salt on pizza" kinda guy...
User avatar
in2anity
Major
Major
 
Posts: 2794
New South Wales

Re: 303\30

Post by bigrich » 12 Apr 2022, 2:05 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigrich wrote:I’m just looking for a old school rimmed cartridge for a martini Enfield that uses available projectiles and doesn’t require pistol powder. 303-30 seems to fit. There are other rarer rimmed cartridges from Europe, 9.3 x60-something. Having said that,35-303 would be interesting. Dunno how it would go feeding though. Martini actions big and small favour bottle shaped cartridge for feeding in the chamber. I’m open to ideas on another cartridge :thumbsup:


7x57R maybe? Virtually identical to .303 but with the advantages of 7mm long-range aerodynamics and excellent bullet choice from 78gn to 215gn.

But really I would just use .303 and buy your bullets now instead of waiting until you need some, availability becomes irrelevant when they're sitting on your shelf.


i've considered 7x57r blade , but like the idea of 30 cal better . much wider choice in 30 cal over 303 , which is the prime consideration in my plans . 303 projectiles are just about unobtainable for me at the moment , but there's still plenty of 30 cal stuff about . 303 brass is much easier to find than 7x57R as well
:thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4008
Queensland

Re: 303\30

Post by bladeracer » 12 Apr 2022, 3:26 pm

bigrich wrote:i've considered 7x57r blade , but like the idea of 30 cal better . much wider choice in 30 cal over 303 , which is the prime consideration in my plans . 303 projectiles are just about unobtainable for me at the moment , but there's still plenty of 30 cal stuff about . 303 brass is much easier to find than 7x57R as well
:thumbsup:


I'm sure any barrel maker can ream you a .303 chamber in a .308" barrel.

Are you building this for shooting steel and paper or for hunting?

I don't think I've tried any .308" bullets in the .303's, it's possible a heavy flat-base bullet might work okay, I must try that. I know people have used .308" bullets relatively successfully in Mosins, though probably not for competition.

7x57R brass is not common, but is around. I ordered some from Rebels a couple years ago.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11305
Victoria

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Gunsmithing