What sort of lathe is needed?

[Gregg]

I like your attitude lad, no gunsmith ever started out as a expert... trial and error is the only way to learn.

I'd back that.

Never hurts to try, just be safe and do all the research first (which you're doing now).

[Jack V]

That is all ok but you don't want too much error at choosing the lathe at 3000 bucks a throw.
Lathe work can be dangerous also and solid study of recognised good practise is very worthwhile to reduce said trial and error .

[Wobble]

Lathe work can be dangerous also and solid study of recognised good practise is very worthwhile to reduce said trial and error.

Be sure to keep those sleeves rolled up.

The worst "best practice" I've seen was one in the US where manufacturing for a food company, some rules overlapped and they were required to wear gloves due to the food relationship.

Sure enough, gloves got pulled into the lathe and we know what happens to the poor blokes arm next.

[Jack V]

+1 Gloves area real no no but in many cold countries they wear gloves because the large metal objects like chucks etc. can freeze your fingers off .

CNC is making things somewhat safer in that regard on factory floors but armatures on manual lathes need to be extra careful.

That is why I suggest a foot brake lathe even if both hands get hung up your feet will be clear and able to stop the lathe instantly .

If your left hand gets caught you can't reach across to turn the lathe off with the right hand . Not trying to scare anyone , if you stay focused on safety then nothing bad happens. Chance favours the prepared mind.

[Wes]

CNC is making things somewhat safer in that regard on factory floors but armatures on manual lathes need to be extra careful.

One of those is a few hundred grand though right?

A workshop quality manual one is how much? 10's of thousands? (I wouldn't know, just guessing)

Price will obviously prevent a lot of places going the safer option of CNC

[Jack V]

You can buy a reasonable quality Taiwanese lathe suitable to do the work for about $5000 . Plus about another $2000 for basic tooling
There is no point in an armature buying an over expensive lathe for home use . The initial cost means you can't buy tooling for ages unless you are rich .
3 phase machines are superior in performance but resale of small 3 phase lathes can be hard . A single phase lathe will do anything you need and resale is much easier .
CNC machines vary in price greatly .

[von_klitzing]

Andy,
Mate I would recommend doing bulk research. Research Fitting and machining, hand tools, carpentry, boilermaking, tech drawing, and everything in between. Write down your plans and ideas and review them constantly as you learn more. Live it, talk it, breathe it. Soak it up coz you'll need it all. It's a big learning curve but all you need to begin with is desire.
Get a torrent downloader and go to town collecting materials on how to build firearms, building custom bolt actions, gas operated sytems, lever systems, trade textbooks and so on for example ----> (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 2246,d.dGY). AGI have some videos on weapons systems and how they work.... Also, join a bunch of trade forums like practialmachinist, woodworking and metalsmithing forums. Surf catalogues and see what kind of tools and consumables are available and read about how people get around paying big bucks for jigs by building their own or inventing a new way to do things! --- Insert ppl like NoisyDad here --- Have an open mind and be flexible. You don't have to be a tradie to learn how to turn metals, it just helps if you have that background. Learn from those who do.
Anyway, I would recommend this lathe - minimum - to start doing your own work. It's an old workhorse, but very upgradeable and proven to do the job well time and time again. A bit more expensive and looks like it isn't any better but I think it is, that's just my opinion. http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L237 Spindle bore is 40mm, you can turn between centres as well if you prefer, or a bit of both... You don't need a foot brake, if you think about it you can design your own brake or add a VFD later on which can act as a brake. A good quality coolant pump is a more important upgrade than a brake IMO, get one with your lathe. Look for a second hand lathe if you want to save a bit of money, they pop up on gumtree regularly, and generally come with extra tooling and sometimes upgraded motors and rebuilt gearboxes etc. but make sure you have some way to move it! There are plenty of forum posts about this as well... Be prepared to learn how to strip and assemble your lathe to change gears, adjust gear tolerances as general maintenance! Ports can clog up and if you're lathe isn't oiling itself it will fail prematurely. Don't forget oils and lubricants
Tools can get expensive but if you focus on working the lathe and getting tools as you need them and not just generally it could work out a bit better. Watch for second hand stuff here too. Use HSS bits and learn to grind them to a fishtail gauge, although if you get carbides you save having to buy a bench grinder. But then again, a bench grinder can mount a linisher or buffing wheels for other works as well, you may want two.... You'll eventually have all of it if you want so it doesn't matter in the end. Lots of places to get good tools from; ebay is good, but MSCdirect is a good starting point for price comparison. I get lots of stuff off ebay, it's just so convenient. Ozmetool is a good aussie seller, mscdirect have their own ebay store, and you'll find more along the way as you research. There is about to be a big sale at Hare & Forbes from 20-22 Nov so you may save a few $$ if you're prepared to buy during these kind of sales. Get on the vip mailing lists of lots of toolshops here in aus, and overseas.
There aren't many places to get firearm reamers/gauges from around aus (if any?) but Pacific gauges and tooling are well known, Brownells, Clymer, etc. make high quality reamers and tools guaranteed to do the job.
Do loads of research before buying measuring gauges as you don't want to be buying these twice. This will kill you. Buy mitutoyo or starrett gear. Second hand isn't a problem coz it's lifetime guaranteed. Finger dial indicators, depth gauges, pin gauges, micrometers, verniers, etc. Learn to read and convert imperial measurements to metric and back again. Decide what your gauges will be, imperial or metric?
Anyway, you've got a mountain to climb :O get started or you won't get to the top eh? Good luck.

HTH

[Noisydad]

well the answer is if you know what you're doing all you need is a 600mm bed, 1" spindle bore, a dial indicator, a 4 jaw chuck and spindle spider. then the lathe needs to have both metric and imperial feed screws depending on the thread, you'd get away with high speed tooling and appropriate tool holders.

but you cant just walk in off the sgtreet, buy a lathe and screw cut a barrel IMHO

Not only that , but you'll soon need a second MUCH bigger lathe, a mill, a bandsaw, a shaper, a hydraulic press, two drilling machines, a forge and anvil, an oxy propane set, a pan brake.....deep sigh get the picture? I hope I never have to move again!

[Jack V]

A foot brake system is not just to stop the rotation it also has a relay system that disconnects the motor as it stops allowing quick reverse without motor damage in a single phase motor . I would not recommend you start learning a lot of stuff you will never use that is a sure fire way to confuse the hell out of you. Set the goals you wish to achieve and study up on how to do that . Achieve one goal at a time and the lesson will be well learned . Later on you can branch out to new stuff . Many people advise about things they have never owned and some people that own old out dated lathes that may well be better quality than cheap modern ones , can't understand how easy the modern lathe is to use compared to old ones. Modern lathes have higher spindle speeds that allows better use of carbide inserts but still has lower speeds for HSS tooling and threading . I cut Metric and Imperial threads al the time and have never even connected the dial gauge it's just not necessary .

[Aster]

Friendly reminder here after a now-removed post.

A few pictures of accidents have been posted and removed as they're too graphic for an all-ages forum.

The potential dangers shouldn't be understated and safety should always come first, but don't post any graphic pictures demonstrating this. People can Google these themselves if they're so inclined.

All good. Carry on.

[bluerob]

It's real shame that there isn't a TAFE course or equivalent on gunsmithing available in Australia.

Finding a good gunsmith is getting harder these days.

[Jack V]

Friendly reminder here after a now-removed post.

A few pictures of accidents have been posted and removed as they're too graphic for an all-ages forum.

The potential dangers shouldn't be understated and safety should always come first, but don't post any graphic pictures demonstrating this. People can Google these themselves if they're so inclined.

All good. Carry on.

That is a good call as there is no need for gory photos.

In fact I don't even like too gory photos of downed game. It's just not necessary, even though I know it's kind of unavoidable on a shooting forum.

[Jack V]

It's real shame that there isn't a TAFE course or equivalent on gunsmithing available in Australia.

Finding a good gunsmith is getting harder these days.

You are quite right it is a shame , and a good gunsmith is very difficult to find. My last effort was I waited 12 months for a gunsmith to ring me when he could do my job in the end I saw him at the range and asked politely when he could do it . The answer was , you could always take it some place else After 12 months of waiting this is the best he could do . I went out and bought my own equipment . He also lost all my other purchases every year like powder , cases etc. etc. It was a real easy job for him too as the action was already fully stripped and the old barrel removed and new barrel supplied all he had to do was thread and chamber . The problem now a days is there is too many so called accuracy gunsmiths that only want to build target rifles and turn their nose up at anything else. In the end they loose vital business .

[Monty]

That is a good call as there is no need for gory photos. In fact I don't even like too gory photos of downed game . It's just not necessary , even though I know it's kind of unavoidable on a shooting forum.

For a discussion on bullet effectiveness, wound channels, relevant things like that we'll let a few photos slide.

No gore for the sake of gore though.

[tapper]

Jack,

Screw dealing with that guy. Those kinds of *&*(^ just make things 10x more stressful than they need to be.

[Jack V]

Jack,

Screw dealing with that guy. Those kinds of *&*(^ just make things 10x more stressful than they need to be.

Too right mate , I found out on Wednesday that he has fallen out of favour at the range also so maybe more business is gone.

[Khan]

Oh well, he'll eventually figure it out at his own expense.

When he's down to living off Ramen noodles his service and manners might improve

[Jack V]

The problem is even if you do most of your own work you still need a gunsmith now and then especially for any registration adjustments . A few months back I found out we have a new one not far away but have not had a chance to check them out . Might give them a small job just to see how I get treated . It's not cost effective to buy special expensive jigs and tooling to do one small job for yourself.

[veep]

It's not cost effective to buy special expensive jigs and tooling to do one small job for yourself.

I guess that's why some businesses think they can treat you crap, because you can't/won't go and do it yourself.

[Jack V]

I guess that's why some businesses think they can treat you crap, because you can't/won't go and do it yourself.

Not quite the case in my situation. I can always buy or make the tooling if they do piss me off. However for most that's correct .

[veep]

Yeah you know what I mean.

When I said you I didn't mean you. I meant us, the average customers.

[RealNick]

Not quite the case in my situation. I can always buy or make the tooling if they do piss me off. However for most that's correct .

I'd love to have a workshop at hand like that.

I'd never have a spare minute

[Jack V]

It's not all beer and skittles. As I said before the tooling to do things can keep you broke and there is no profit from anyone when you just do your own stuff.

Economically it's crazy but satisfaction is good. It is nice to have some tools but most people are better off putting the money directly towards the gear they need.

I bought my stuff out off frustration and anger not sensible economic thinking. It has been good for fixing and making dies and I needed a few new swaging dies as some were wearing out. They only have to loose.002 between the core seater and the point former and they play up. It takes a long time for that to happen but some of mine were second hand to start with. It's a very common mistake for new bullet swagers to blame the point forming die when the bullet will not eject. However the real culprit is usually the core seating die because it has either worn and lost the critical match tolerance or it was made wrong to start with.

Commercial die makers put about.001 critical match tolerance so the dies wear out quicker around 50 000 bullets for tool steel. It's BS as.002 match works perfect and the dies last much longer. Lathes are good for this mucking about with dies. Now you really need to know that right

I had planned to share my tools with a friend at no expense to him but all of a sudden he started making insulting remarks about my gear and how I was doing things,well I was new at it and trying to learn things. It got to the point he was making fun of me in front of others even at the range so one day I gave him the verbal heave ho right out the door and don't come back.

To this day I can't figure out what happened but some other people said it may have been shear jealousy and he could not hide it. I guess that's cutting your nose off to spite your face. So I got some new tools but lost a friend, go figure.

[Lorgar]

I had planned to share my tools with a friend at no expense to him but all of a sudden he started making insulting remarks about my gear and how I was doing things,well I was new at it and trying to learn things. It got to the point he was making fun of me in front of others even at the range so one day I gave him the verbal heave ho right out the door and don't come back.

To this day I can't figure out what happened but some other people said it may have been shear jealousy and he could not hide it.

It's a funny thing, we had a similar experience when I was a kid.

We'd just moved into a new house in a cul-de-sac of about 20 houses and over the next days/weeks my folks were bumping into the neighbours and introducing themselves and all the usual stuff and in one instance my mother invited one of the others over for a cup of tea for an hour.

So this women comes over and after seeing a little of the house says something like "Well, I won't bother inviting you over" or something like that. I can't remember the words as it was 20 years ago but it was clear there was something similar to what you described going on. Sure enough, didn't see much of her after that.

My folks house (still live there) is one of the nicer ones in the street, but it's inline with the rest of the area. It's not some mansion towering above the poor burbs or anything like that... You wouldn't pick it out as anything special.

Never figured out what her problem was in the end and just didn't have anything to do with her.

[Jack V]

Yeah mate some people are strange . Sounds like the same thing. I can't figure out that kind of thinking. They leave you feeling guilty like you did something wrong .
Weird.

[Supporter]

For the best... Less distractions in the workshop and more time for projects Jack

[Jack V]

For the best... Less distractions in the workshop and more time for projects Jack

Yes your are right about that . It's actually better now as he was upsetting me and making the learning harder .

[Bidgee]

Mate get a copy of Gordy Gritters video and John Hinnants Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting (Brownells).

And get the lathe and start learning!

[Lorgar]

I'll need some lathe advice soon.

My new casting hobby is quickly creating ideas that will need one

[pomemax]

Any lathe that a barrel will fit in would do you IF you know how to use it or have spent the time to learn saying that .
Look for a lathe in your Budget that has a set of change gears LEARN HOW AND WHAT TO DO WITH THEM , lathe steady and 3 and 4 jaw chucks next start to accumulate a set of Micrometers 0-1 1-2 2-3 and the metric equivalents the point im makeing is you wont just do barrels and stuff.
Then get a real decent bench grinder and some square steel Just plane mild steel and practice to grind threading tools you can buy most tool guides from hare and forbes then grind some on hhs that skill will save you money in the long run buying threading tip is ok if your doing 1 thread and if you dont have to sharpen it ever again .
learn to turn it should take you some time to get ok with your lathe (just rember a lathe can kill i have seen 1 guy rip his left arm of and 2 killed in my working life manly from leaving a chuck key in when starting some chuck keys are big and they were guys that had worked their whole life on a lathe )
I HAVE WORKED FOR OVER 40 ON LATHES AND IM STILL LEARNNG ITS NOT LIKE YOU CAN learn in a day
have a watch of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba3_3qseCB4