Cleaning a new .223

[rsj223]

Hi,

I've been out of shooting for about 20 years at that was only with a .22 as a youngster with my dad so now I brought a new .22 to introduce my children into shooting and got myself a bug, I was back at the gun shop 2 weeks to buy my next gun a Ruger American Predator .223.

The problem is that there are to many versions on how and when to clean this .223 some say every 4 or 5 shots some say use copper brush and some say just patches.

What do you guys do any advise would be great.

[SendIt]

The problem is that there are to many versions on how and when to clean this .223 some say every 4 or 5 shots some say use copper brush and some say just patches.

Yes mate there are a lot of opinions on this. For what it's worth I'll give you mine.

One point no one will argue is they need a good clean out of the box. The barrel will be full of grease for storage.

Run a few patches through to get the factory grease out, no argument about that.

After that, a nylon brush with solvent to wash out the last bits of grease and patch it out until the patches are clean.

A copper brush is to scrub off fouling, there is no need to do this with a brand new barrel. Just make sure you get the grease out.

After that, I just clean a rifle at the end of each shoot.

My routine for this is nylon brush with solvent and give it 10 minutes to soak.
Copper brush to get get the fouling loose if it's stubborn.
Clean patches to make it shine.
Oiled patch to keep it free of corrosion.

Personally I think the 1 shot clean, 5 shot clean, 10 shot clean and so on is complete bulls**t. A total waste of time, ammo and money.

I've always cleaned and shot mine straight away and they shoot just as well doing this as once they've been 'broken in' with 50 - 100 shots.

[Chronos]

Similar to sendit i recommend giving it a good clean out straight out of the box with patches soaked in metho or shellite to remove any grease or oils the manufacturers use to stop corrosion in storage and shipping

ne advantage in the one shot, clean for 5 then 5 shots, clean then 10 shots clean is i believe you get a feeling for how badly the barrel fouls with copper. this will give you an idea how often you'll need to clean it in the future.

one of my .223 barrels was brilliant and hardly seemed to copper foul, there was a noticeable decrease in accuracy after 40-50 rounds without a clean though i suspect that was as much carbon as copper

another .223 i owned was woeful for copper fouling and i believe the roughness of the rifling could be felt through the cleaning rod, fortunately i sold that rifle to fund a much more fun firearm

what ever solvents (carbon and copper) you use be sure to read the instructions, some solvents need to be left in the barrel long enough for the chemical reaction to take place. other can reportedly damage the barrel steel if left in the barrel too long

Chronos

[Lorgar]

I've always cleaned and shot mine straight away and they shoot just as well doing this as once they've been 'broken in' with 50 - 100 shots.

Agree.

My Tikka shot under 0.4 MOA out of the box. First shots.

Why f*** around with hundreds of rounds "running it in". What's to improve on that?

[Chronos]

Because not every gun shoots like a Tikka out of the box

Chronos

[bigfellascott]

Just follow what the Manufacturer says mate. Definitely give the bore/chamber area a good clean before shooting it the first time, they usually have anti corrosives in the bore/chamber that needs to be removed (use some metho on a patch and just keep pushing em through until they come out cleanish).

[rsj223]

Thanks for the info you have made it clear and easy, another question then is how do I tell if it's copper fouled or just fouled from carbon? can it be seen or is it just because it shoots badly?

[North East]

A Tikka has already had 3 high pressure cartridges through it at the factory to prove breach integrity and accuracy. Doesn't seem to matter what caliber they are they shoot straight and smooth. But I do clean them once when I first get one, just Hoppes No.9. No set running in routine, don't think it's even mentioned in the manual.

[brett1868]

First up, congratulation's for getting back into the sport and introducing your son. I'm sure with the right approach to teaching him, he will enjoy himself for many years to come. I have to slightly disagree with the previous guys around shoot it like you stole it approach. Grab the manual that came with the rifle and check what if any barrel break in procedure they recommend and follow it. Each manufacturer will recommend something different but generally revolves around increasing the number of shots between cleans and don't get the barrel too hot to touch in the early stages. If no procedure in the manual then put 2-3 rounds through it and allow to cool, repeat till you have 15-20 rounds fired then give it a good clean, check for copper fouling and if severe then repeat the procedure. Not much copper fouling then give it a good clean before putting it away. Remember to leave it well oiled and clean the oil just before the next shooting session.

[mausermate]

My opinion is that running in is important to reduce fouling.
I will agree, and I have found no evidence that running in a barrel improves accuracy over a few shots. However, I find that carefully run in barrels shoot better for longer periods between cleans. I have found evidence that dirty fouled barrels do not shoot as well as clean ones.

On a range, I find it of little consequence as most matches I shoot consist of 20 or so shots per day. I don't generally get fouling from that many and if I am shooting more, cleaning at the range is not an issue for me. Saying that, I still carefully run in my range rifles.
In the field, in some instances, I find a massive advantage with rifles that do not foul. Culling Kangaroos (under permit) when I am shooting 30, 40, 50+ rounds in an evening, head shooting only, you need a rifle that will not foul. when they foul, the groups open and you start to miss. Pain in the arse cleaning in the field.

I can spend a day running in a new rifle or barrel. It is not everyone's thing, granted. But it works for me and it does not bother me.
1 shot, clean. I do that until there is no sign of fouling from 1 shot. Every barrel is different but normally, I find after around 6 to 8 shots it's good to go. I spend half to an hour on each clean. Sweets and a bronze brush. After that, I generally don't fire more than 5 before cleaning. Maybe three or four times.

[rsj223]

I looked through the book again and as I thought it doesn't mention a brake in procedure but the shop gave me one that they use I dd make sure that it had heated up and cooled down and did not push it and cleaned it as they advised, the book does say "There is no fixed rule as to how frequently the cleaning should be carried out but the alert gun owner soon learns that any firearm functions most reliably and accurately when it is free from accumulations of grease and other firing residues"
I think that cleaning it after each use should be fine.
I will get a nylon brush.

[Chronos]

I looked through the book again and as I thought it doesn't mention a brake in procedure but the shop gave me one that they use I dd make sure that it had heated up and cooled down and did not push it and cleaned it as they advised, the book does say "There is no fixed rule as to how frequently the cleaning should be carried out but the alert gun owner soon learns that any firearm functions most reliably and accurately when it is free from accumulations of grease and other firing residues"
I think that cleaning it after each use should be fine.
I will get a nylon brush.

powder fouling is black, copper fouling shows as blue/green on the patches when copper solvent is used. the boretech solvents are excellent

i'm very happy with the boretech nylon brushes i bought from HSS, they're stiff and last ages. don't forget a bore guide to protect the lands in your barrel

Chronos

[rsj223]

First up, congratulation's for getting back into the sport and introducing your son. I'm sure with the right approach to teaching him, he will enjoy himself for many years to come. I have to slightly disagree with the previous guys around shoot it like you stole it approach. Grab the manual that came with the rifle and check what if any barrel break in procedure they recommend and follow it. Each manufacturer will recommend something different but generally revolves around increasing the number of shots between cleans and don't get the barrel too hot to touch in the early stages. If no procedure in the manual then put 2-3 rounds through it and allow to cool, repeat till you have 15-20 rounds fired then give it a good clean, check for copper fouling and if severe then repeat the procedure. Not much copper fouling then give it a good clean before putting it away. Remember to leave it well oiled and clean the oil just before the next shooting session.

Thanks, my children are the most important things and want them to know and be shown the way my father had done with me.
The kids are very keen and even my young daughter wants the "little pink gun" I just wish it came as a pop gun.
As for me I have trouble sleeping just thinking about the next time just cant get enough.
Rick

[rsj223]

powder fouling is black, copper fouling shows as blue/green on the patches when copper solvent is used. the boretech solvents are excellent

i'm very happy with the boretech nylon brushes i bought from HSS, they're stiff and last ages. don't forget a bore guide to protect the lands in your barrel

Ahh yep a bore guide is on the list to pick up next week, I should be sorted out in a week or so

[Warrigul]

My opinion is that running in is important to reduce fouling.

I have found no evidence that running in a barrel improves accuracy over a few shots. However, I find that carefully run in barrels shoot better for longer periods between cleans.

I can spend a day running in a new rifle or barrel. It is not everyone's thing, granted. But it works for me and it does not bother me.

+1

I use running in to sight in, get rough zeros at distance and have a bit of a play with each new toy.

[Jack V]

My opinion is that running in is important to reduce fouling.
I will agree, and I have found no evidence that running in a barrel improves accuracy over a few shots. However, I find that carefully run in barrels shoot better for longer periods between cleans. I have found evidence that dirty fouled barrels do not shoot as well as clean ones.

On a range, I find it of little consequence as most matches I shoot consist of 20 or so shots per day. I don't generally get fouling from that many and if I am shooting more, cleaning at the range is not an issue for me. Saying that, I still carefully run in my range rifles.
In the field, in some instances, I find a massive advantage with rifles that do not foul. Culling Kangaroos (under permit) when I am shooting 30, 40, 50+ rounds in an evening, head shooting only, you need a rifle that will not foul. when they foul, the groups open and you start to miss. Pain in the arse cleaning in the field.

I can spend a day running in a new rifle or barrel. It is not everyone's thing, granted. But it works for me and it does not bother me.
1 shot, clean. I do that until there is no sign of fouling from 1 shot. Every barrel is different but normally, I find after around 6 to 8 shots it's good to go. I spend half to an hour on each clean. Sweets and a bronze brush. After that, I generally don't fire more than 5 before cleaning. Maybe three or four times.

+2 . It all depends on how good the barrel is that you get . If it's a top quality match barrel that's been lapped it may be not worth the time and ammo to run it in . If it's a nasty rough pig of a barrel then it can help. People have to think outside their own little square not all things are created equal especially barrels .
Also some people will not notice the difference if they don't fire many shots and clean rarely for them it's not worth the effort but other people may be in a different situation with a very different gun condition . I use my own moly coating process for culling their not legal for food consumption use but ok for pest shooting and I only clean the 223 after about 300 shots and accuracy stay the same from about the 10 th shot to 300 which is as far as I have gone without cleaning . Slight accuracy loss happens while the bore is being re coated but settles down after about 10 shots , it's not that bad in my rifle but you can see it on paper . I should caution that you may not get this kind of performance from factory coated bullets that may not be even be MoS2 at all. You need to do the coating yourself correctly . Some bullets are just painted with some crap that gums up the bore .

[Rakk]

Thanks for the info you have made it clear and easy, another question then is how do I tell if it's copper fouled or just fouled from carbon? can it be seen or is it just because it shoots badly?

Check the bottle of what you buy but most solvents, even if they're titled "copper solvent" will remove powder fouling as well.

Do get the nylon brush like you said, sometimes that's all that's needed. Just my 2c but I feel better about not flogging the barrel with the metal brush when possible.

After a short shoot or light fouling loads just agitating the solvent around with the nylon brush and leaving it to break up the fouling is enough. You can dissolve it and patch it out without needed a brass bristled brush.

[Jack V]

Copper fouling can be seen in the bore as copper coloured streaks but it is not easy for new shooters to asses how bad it is from a visual inspection. In time with more experience with said gun it can be done but it's not a good guide.

A better guide is how much comes out with cleaning, compared to how many shots fired compared to when acceptable accuracy drops off. If you take note of these three things you will develop a feel for how often and how much you need to clean.

Using a nylon brush is ok for applying solvent or for cleaning with just solvent in nice smooth barrels with low fouling amounts but some barrel will need a bronze brush to break through the powder fouling to help the solvent do it's job. It is no good just to copy what someone else does. You have to work with your gun and develop the barrel cleaning it needs for your situation.

What target shooters do in match quality barrels is different to what a hunter might do in a lesser quality barrel and shooting in a different way. Notice how I don't advise you to do it the way I do it like so many people do, find what works for you using observation.

[rsj223]

The shop gave me Hoppe's 9 as they had run out of copper cleaner and said it will do but need to leave it in a bit to soak?

Armed with all your information I will be looking at the barrel after 5 shots 10 shots and so on to see if I can notice the change.

I hope to have a friend who has been shooting a bit coming with us and bringing a few of his guns, will be great to compare.

[Vati]

The shop gave me Hoppe's 9 as they had run out of copper cleaner and said it will do but need to leave it in a bit to soak?

They all need a little time to work, none instantly take fouling off with a single clean wipe.

Patch the solvent through, give it a scrub with the nylon brush and leave it for a few minutes before patching it out or using a brass brush. Read the Hoppe's bottle, might recommend how long it thinks is best. Otherwise give 5-10 minutes a try.

[rsj223]

I took it out yesterday, the best I got was 4 shots inside 40mm (4 shot mag) and that was on the ground with sand bags and 55mm on my camp table both at 100mtrs.

This measurement is from outside of each hole at the furthest, is this a good enough way to measure?

So it appears that the table is not very stable and/or me.

Also I found it hard to focus over the 100mtrs as it was hot and fairly hazy.

Came home and gave it a clean inside and out, was happy with how it cleaned up, did not notice any green just black, this week when I pick up the nylon brush I will scrub/clean it again to see if the way I cleaned it last night left much in it.

It looks like I have much more to learn when firing it but happy with the progress so far.

[agentzero]

This measurement is from outside of each hole at the furthest, is this a good enough way to measure?

You want to measure from the centre of the two furthest holes. Not edge to edge.

If you think about about it, if you put two bullets through the same hole the group is 0. If you measure the hole edge to edge though it would measure .223" wide group.

Get what I mean?

[rsj223]

"centre of the two furthest holes"

That would mean mine was about 33mm

[agentzero]

There you go, I just took 7mm off your group for you.

I'm improving your shooting!

[Carter]

Just over an inch group then.

If that's your first shoot in 20 years you're not doing half bad!

[rsj223]

There you go, I just took 7mm off your group for you.

I'm improving your shooting!

Thanks for that, need the help

[rsj223]

Just over an inch group then.

If that's your first shoot in 20 years you're not doing half bad!

Yeah I just can't settle, get comfortable, any tips?

[Tiiger]

How're you shooting - Bench? Prone?

What with - Bipod? Rest? Bags?

[rsj223]

How're you shooting - Bench? Prone?

What with - Bipod? Rest? Bags?

I first tried the Bipod now on bags and found them to be better, putting the bags on the ground made a big difference but my body will take some time to adjust to lying that way.

It seems that I can't keep the cross on the target like I have a twitch in my body if that makes sense.

[Tiiger]

It does.

Twitching's usually (in my experience anyway, others may suggest other reasons) because your holding on to the rifle too tight, really gripping it to try and force it to stay still.... which has the opposite effect usually.

Relax. That's the key.

Rest your palm around the grip rather than 'gripping' it if you know that I mean, just enough to aim. Relax, exhale and squeeze the trigger.