Bore bulge in Steyr HS50

[brett1868]

Been chasing a problem with my Steyr HS50 the past few months. It has a 12" drift in elevation at 100m but windage appears fine, I originally suspected scope or rings though I have checked them and they seem fine. Spent some time tonight giving the barrel a very good clean and noticed when pushing patches through that there's a definite loose spot mid way down the bore. Patch is nice and tight for the full stroke apart from maybe 1/2" in the middle which is exactly where the barrel tapers down. I doubt this is normal but reading the net I can't locate anything one way or another saying its a bad thing or would affect accuracy. Either way I'll be taking it back to the shop for further investigation as it's never grouped better then 12" @ 100m which is total crap for this class of rifle.

[bigfellascott]

Yep definitely something wrong if it shoots that bad at 100m! from memory my mates clover leafs the factory ammo at that distance (she's a big cloverleaf!)

[Westy]

Don't sound to good to me Brett had a sako that did the same thing from new..... they told me it wasn't the rifle it was me, funny how they replaced it eventually with a new one while still maintaining it was the shooter????WTF like their going to be giving Sako's out willy nilly!!! Take it back as 12" is way to much

[Oldbloke]

Was it new or use when u bought it?

[Gwion]

E'gads, 12" @ 100m???

I'd be worried at 4-5" but can understand "shooter error" coming into it at that but anyone who has spent more than 1/2hr shooting can shoot better than 12" @100m with a decent rig, surely!??!

It'd be straight back to the manufacturer for me if a brand new rifle. That loose bit in the barrel sound's very suss. Wouldn't even bother trying to find the issue, just not acceptable performance in my book.

[brett1868]

Was it new or use when u bought it?

Yep, Brand spanking new in the case and hasn't shot right since new. Being a 50BMG I used a quality scope, Nightforce NXS gripped by Barrett rings so that part should be plenty strong. I'm going to mount my Kahles 624i with EraTec mount for one last attempt to "prove" it's the rifle and not the optics. The shop is fully aware of the issues I'm having and I'll let them know about this latest finding on Tuesday. I have to head north in a few weeks to check out a property and test some .416 VLD's for Woodleigh so I'll have one final crack before returning it either for replacement or refund. It's a real disappointment cause I really like the Styer's muzzle brake, it's gentle on the shoulder where my other 2 kick like mules.
I'll let you know what the shop says on Tuesday and I'm going to email Steyr later tonight

[bigfellascott]

How old is it Brett?

[Gwion]

Was it new or use when u bought it?

Yep, Brand spanking new in the case and hasn't shot right since new. Being a 50BMG I used a quality scope, Nightforce NXS gripped by Barrett rings so that part should be plenty strong.

Oh. I missed that it was a 50BMG. In that case, a 12" group would be very tight for me!

Take more that 1/2hr to learn to shoot it straight!

[1290]

So....a bulge in the barrel wouldnt normally be a manufacturing defect
(just quietly) it can happen due to operator error, some obstruction even leaving a little too much oil in the bore.
Might there be the slightest chance that even before your first shot you didnt patch out the oil after cleaning

Either way good luck with the dealer, hope they replace it for you.

[Westy]

So....a bulge in the barrel wouldnt normally be a manufacturing defect
(just quietly) it can happen due to operator error, some obstruction even leaving a little too much oil in the bore.
Might there be the slightest chance that even before your first shot you didnt patch out the oil after cleaning

Either way good luck with the dealer, hope they replace it for you.

But it can happen nether the less 1290 and isn't beyond the realms of possibility that someone on Monday morning f***ed up now is it

I doubt that brett is such a Wildman that he would forge to do such a thing, he seems to be the full quid IMHO

Now you on the other hand well were shall I begin

[Jack V]

It is also very possible that someone at the shop decided on the quiet to have a shot with it and forgot to remove transport grease or similar from the bore .

If it's shooting 12" groups then something is wrong . I mean 12" groups would make it useless at long range and that's what you buy one for .

Very disappointing . Make sure you inform Steyr separately to the dealer just in case they stuff you around hoping you will sell it .

I think they have hammer forged barrels so garbage on the forging mandrel could cause that loose spot .

Remind them that the gun is advertised as a " long range precision rifle "

Make sure the barrel is assembled into the action correctly and tight .

Also the scope rail is a travesty of justice and with the recoil of a 50 BMG would be wiping the scope up and down .

The STEYR HS .50 opens a new era of long range shooting. The cold hammer forged barrel provides excellent accuracy at an effective range up to 1500 m.

At 1500 m yours would be making 15 feet groups !!

[brett1868]

Rifle was purchased June last year and has a total of 73 rounds through it, mainly Hornady 750Gr AMAX factory and some reloads. I cleaned the barrel when I first purchased it cause I'm fussy that way and wanted to get the crap out from when they test fire it. I don't remember the loose spot from then but I was using a loop type jag to patch it out. I've recently purchased a more conventional pin type jag which is why I'm probably feeling the loose spot. The barrel starts out quite thick then around 12" from the chamber it tapers down, it's exactly at the taper the jag finds a loose spot which is a little suspicious.

I always give it a proper clean prior to storage and oil it as usual. When I prepare for a trip away I run a bore snake through it then a few patches as well as cleaning the chamber, brake and bolt so I can hit the farm ready to shoot. These are a weird design in that the barrel bolts into the receiver with 2 hex screws making the barrel fully floating, doesn't look very strong but seems to do the job.

This model of rifle has won world titles which was one of the factors I used when deciding to buy it so it's capable of great accuracy. Thankfully it's a legit import through Winchester Australia so warranty / support is at least local though responsiveness to problems is yet to be tested.
The 12" drift is mainly in elevation which makes me still think I've got an optics / ring issue. I won't point the finger at the barrel till I test a different base & scope on it, if it's still screwed with the Kahles / EraTac then it's got to be the barrel. I've eliminated the nut behind the trigger by getting a professional fox shooter for 30+ years to attempt a group and he managed 12" but again mainly in the elevation. My other chronograph should turn up Tuesday or Wednesday so I'll be able to see what the ammo is doing, might be far fetched to think it's the problem but I'll check it anyway.

I'm still breaking in the barrel on the Tac 50 so haven't really attempted to shoot groups yet. The DTA barrel is almost broken in but groups well and once I load for it I'll get serious with testing its accuracy. I had thoughts to dump the 50's (apart from the DTA) and focus on the .375 Cheytac and .416 Barrett but nothing mans me up more then a 3 pack of 50's plus I like to have a choice when blowing up watermelons . I put 7 shots into a 20L drum @ 520m last week in a high x wind using case forming loads so it's got massive potential.

[Noisydad]

Be aware of your consumer rights. If you want it replaced then the retailer MUST replace it It''s YOUR choice NOT theirs. As a consumer ,you have the right to expect that what you bought will last the average lifetime of that product and that it will perform as advertised or marketed. You don't need the original packaging or store receipt but you need proof of purchase such as credit card receipt or bank statement. I found out this stuff during a war with my local Telstra shop oxygen thieves when a Samsung phone melted while recharging at two months old. I won.

[Jack V]

This model of rifle has won world titles which was one of the factors I used when deciding to buy it so it's capable of great accuracy.

I am in no way knocking your choice so don't take offence please . However as an experienced gun tuner and amature smith I personally would never have bought that HS 50 design . When I looked it up after your first post I was taken back by what I saw . Many of it's concepts break known accuracy concepts especially for high recoil cartridges . If I were building a long range gun for my self and I have in the past I would never consider that design .

If the group is stringing mainly vertical then it could be , barrel flip , scope and or mount , might also be some failure to control recoil and or bi-pod problem .

If the loose spot in the barrel is early in the bullet travel then any in bore yaw , should settle down again by the time it exits . However that is not 100% reliable as it all depends on what happens to the bullet as it hits the loose spot . If it yaws and then re-centres again in the good bore it can distort the jacket in a way that makes the base and ogive out of square with the centre axis of the bullet and bore producing dynamic instability in the air . I pretty much guarantee that the scope is being flipped up and down under recoil in that rail setup. That basic design may have won competitions but was it the run off the mill mass produced gun that they used . It's a lot like Holden winning the Bathurst 500 , yeah right it aint the Holden I can buy .

Professional sponsored competition shooters don't use off the shelf guns . I would also have suspicions that the barrel weight and length combined with recoil and the amount of action rigidity and support available behind the action front ring may not be supporting the barrel properly .

You should not have kept it so long before taking it back . Don't say anything about not finding the bulge on first cleaning . Say nothing other than . It's no good and it don't shoot and never did from day 1 .

[Warrigul]

I am in no way knocking your choice so don't take offence please . However as an experienced gun tuner and amature smith I personally would never have bought that HS 50 design . When I looked it up after your first post I was taken back by what I saw . Many of it's concepts break known accuracy concepts especially for high recoil cartridges . If I were building a long range gun for my self and I have in the past I would never consider that design .
If the group is stringing mainly vertical then it could be , barrel flip , scope and or mount , might also be some failure to control recoil and or bi-pod problem .

Sounds like knocking to me?

I am sure steyr would be glad to have you on board.

I am in no way knocking your post, but it sounds like craaap to me.

[Jack V]

Well you might take it that way but I am trying to point out the possible reasons why this gun is not as good as the advertising and sales hype says it is.

There is lots of lies told on the internet to sell products . However the last gun I built for myself shoots sub one inch consistently and also many sub .5 groups . Every gun I own would out shoot that HS50 even at 1000 yards . There is something wrong with it as it should shoot better but the concept is prone to lack of rigidity . Believe what ever you like I don't care what you think. If you know so much then where is your analysis of the problem .

Plenty of dud rifles have been built by multi million dollar corporations .

[Warrigul]

There you go again, bagging out someone elses purchase,

I have to say that I give little credibility to what you write and you caring about what I write is very low on my list of priorities.

This individual rifle seems to have an issue, that is what needs to be worked through, perhaps there is an manufacturing defect but to condemn the whole genre based on issues with one rifle, especially when there is further elimination to follow? This model has a long list of credits to its name. If a 12" vertical string was one of its quirks as standard I don't think many would have been sold.

So you are a tinkerer? Yep you are entitled to have a view but I would still back Steyr to know more about designing firearms than yourself, and lets face it there have been a few thousand sold already.

There are a few possibilities but I haven't opened my mouth as I don't have the firearm in front of me and I am loathe to muddy the waters, especially when the OP is working his way through the possibilities already.

I am extremely interested in the result, not what you think. But I won't disrupt this any further and I wouldn't be upset if the mods deleted all the excess out.

[brett1868]

Gee guys, calm down...Jack V made some valid comments and they're appreciated as are all comments good and bad as I initially had similar thought's about the design myself. When you think more in depth about the design you can see the sense of it, the barrel is fully floated which is a desirable trait, the recoil lug is bedded well into the stock, the sight rail is solidly mounted to the chamber and it's got a very solid bolt which are all hallmarks of a target rifle.

An out of the box HS50 took out the FCSA world title in 2012 which is the pinnacle of competition for the 50BMG so it's got plenty of credibility to back it up.
http://www.steyrarms.com/nc/news/items/article/press-release-steyr-hs50-wins-world-championshipagain/

Each of the 3 50's I have are vastly different in design which is one of the reasons I have 3 (4th one coming soon ) The McMillan is probably the closest to a conventional design but the friggen pistol grip is way too big for the average hand though the new model just released has fixed that and for $2k plus freight I can get the upgraded stock (not likely). The DTA is a Bull Pup design with interchangeable barrels so I can shoot 375, 416 & 50 with it. I didn't bother with the .408 Cheytac as projectiles are near impossible to obtain. I like the big guns as you probably realise by now, bit like why drive a Honda Jizz when you can buy a V8 approach to shooting.

The unfortunate thing with this calibre is that I get 3-4 trips a year to shoot it so it can be a few months between tests. I'm currently in the market to purchase a property of 500+ acres purely for shooting that's within 4-5hrs of Sydney just so I can shoot the big guns more often. Eric from Woodleigh has sent me some sample .416 Barrett VLD's based on a conversation I had with him before Christmas. These are experimental at the moment and I'm doing the testing for them. I spent the long weekend preparing cases and getting them loaded so I can a 6hr trip north in the next couple weeks to test these and have one final crack with the Steyr.
The shop has been very supportive of the issue so I don't foresee any issues in getting a resolution once I can be certain it's the rifle. It may very well be a faulty scope, I've called Nightforce in the U.S and spoke to them at length about the problem. They blamed the rings so I swapped them and the problem persisted. Next trip it's a Khales / Era Tac combo and if still shooting crap I can with all confidence point the finger at the rifle.

Lets not speculate further till I try with the other scope, there's a new HS50 M1 in the shop so I'll ask the owner if he minds me running my jag through the barrel to see if it's got a similar loose spot. Actually I'll try doing this in the next few days just to settle my own curiosity.

[brett1868]

I'll get some pictures tomorrow afternoon of where the loose spot is along with where the barrel bolts up to the action / stock. What I'll also attempt is to put some fishing scales on the rod and pull it through, the loose spot should show up as a sudden drop in weight. Might make for an interesting experiment

[newsteadvic]

Been chasing a problem with my Steyr HS50 the past few months. It has a 12" drift in elevation at 100m but windage appears fine,

nothing mans me up more then a 3 pack of 50's plus I like to have a choice when blowing up watermelons .

If you are hunting watermelons at 100m then that accuracy level is absolutely adequate. I would be quite comfortable hunting watermelons with that rifle any day of the week.

[North East]

Hope you get it sorted Brett...I have not got a clue what the problem might be.

[trekin]

I'll get some pictures tomorrow afternoon of where the loose spot is along with where the barrel bolts up to the action / stock. What I'll also attempt is to put some fishing scales on the rod and pull it through, the loose spot should show up as a sudden drop in weight. Might make for an interesting experiment

Of course you could just look through the bore at a bright-ish light. A bulge in the bore will appear as a dark, shadowy ring around the bore, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CELpc9X_uss This ring will be easy to see if the bulge is significant enough to be felt as "a definite loose spot mid way down the bore". A bulge like that would also be evident on the outside of the barrel, although it may require taking a series of measurements with your verniers to 'see' the bulge.

[scrolllock]

It is also very possible that someone at the shop decided on the quiet to have a shot with it and forgot to remove transport grease or similar from the bore .

I have noticed an awful lot of 'new' rifles at one of my locals are in already open boxes and appear to have had a good handling.

Not display stuff, boxes out the back they fetch for people.

[Bourt]

For how much cash and time you put into it that'd be frustrating as heeeeeeell!

Fingers crossed for sorting it.

[Oldbloke]

"is also very possible that someone at the shop decided on the quiet to have a shot with it and forgot to remove transport grease or similar from the bore . "

Funny I wondered about that too. When I got my 223 it seemed very dirty prior to shooting for the first time?

I think tne days of factories test firing is over isnt it?

[Jack V]

Some brands did test fire their accuracy guaranteed rifles but your right most don't . I'm note even positive that proofing goes on with each individual gun like it did many years ago . I know borrowing new guns goes on because I have known three guns shop owners personally in my time . If I get the feeling that it's been used then I just refuse the sale and ask to see another one . If they get testy with that , I buy some place else .

[Warrigul]

Some brands did test fire their accuracy guaranteed rifles but your right most don't . I'm note even positive that proofing goes on with each individual gun like it did many years ago . I know borrowing new guns goes on because I have known three guns shop owners personally in my time . If I get the feeling that it's been used then I just refuse the sale and ask to see another one . If they get testy with that , I buy some place else .

Tikka, sako, anschutz, CZ still definately test fire theirs, there are probably others but I haven't looked in to it.

No firearm is allowed into Australia unless it has been proofed and stamped as such, this has never changed.

[Jack V]

This video gives an idea of how much scope and base flex can happen on a 50 cal. and that is with a better rail setup but a quite long scope objective .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5pVya7eask
This is just a 6.5 Creedmoor and another over hanging scope mount . @1.48 min. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRMgBLoiNxE

[1290]

Gee guys, calm down...Jack V made some valid comments and they're appreciated as are all comments good and bad as I initially had similar thought's about the design myself. ....................
..................
Lets not speculate further till I try with the other scope, there's a new HS50 M1 in the shop so I'll ask the owner if he minds me running my jag through the barrel to see if it's got a similar loose spot. Actually I'll try doing this in the next few days just to settle my own curiosity.

All we can do is speculate Brett!! you posted your issue seeking feedback which can be nothing other than speculation....

I'll say it a bit louder this time; the bulge is caused by the operator, the operator was either you, a previous owner, or someone at the dealer 'who took it for a run'......

You get your money back if the product is unfit for purpose.... for your sake I hope they do the diplomatic thing and replace it but they're not obliged to unless you can prove it wasnt you...

The scope and whether it's good or fixed sturdily is another issue....

[Jack V]

There I no guarantee that what you feel with a patch is a bulge . It could also be a smooth spot . As the barrel wears in it might even up in feel but you can't risk that .
A pressure bulge should show signs on the outside also . A loose spot caused by stress changes due to barrel profiling or fluting operations would not show on the outside . If it is a loose spot , it is most likely caused during hammer forging