Marine ply stock- question, glue?

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Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by Warrigul » 19 Mar 2015, 8:13 pm

Okay, going to have a go at making a savage .22 stock, I have threepieces of high quality 3/4" marine ply(didn't cost anything).

Good looking stuff but what the hell do I glue it with, Austral plywoods say use " Structural elastomerics".

Any advice appreciated, do I break the surface first, clamp it etc etc etc. I want it to be good as I don't intend to do more than varnish it.
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by Chronos » 19 Mar 2015, 8:39 pm

I've made a few laminated blocks for jobs at home and when i was working as a mast builder for a shipwright. give all the surfaces a light sane and a wipe with accetone to help remove any dust, oils and waxes

You want to use an epoxy, i have used polyester resin but the epoxy will be harder and less flexible. the boatcote products are reasonably priced and high quality.

http://boatcraft.com.au/Shop/index.php? ... x&cPath=15

If you want to do it right first time i'd recommend building a fixture out of steel RHS or hardwood beams if you have it, cover it with kitchen baking paper, lay your ply down, brush on the mixed epoxy on both pieces and start laying it up. scrape off any excess and put another layer of paper on top. (the paper will stop the stock blank gluing itself to the fixture) you won't need much epoxy and most have a long working time. you can predrill some dowel holes if it has to go together perfectly but if you are just going to cut it down it won't matter, too much resin and the layers will float and misalign so go slowly

then clamp your top beam on and wipe any resin that comes out. leave it for double the product cure time and then break the fixture down and trim it all up square with either a table saw or planer/thicknesser then you can mark it all out from nice straight edges

good luck with it, it's a project i've had in the back of my mind for a while as well.

I'm sure Trekin can add something here as he's made a few stocks on his piece of home made wizardry


Chronos

Edit: forgot to mention Boatcote also do cloths than can be put between the layers if added stiffness is required and filler powders that can be added to the same resin to make sandable filers for filling holes even bedding if it was just a rimfire
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by trekin » 20 Mar 2015, 8:33 am

Chronos wrote:I've made a few laminated blocks for jobs at home and when i was working as a mast builder for a shipwright. give all the surfaces a light sane and a wipe with accetone to help remove any dust, oils and waxes

You want to use an epoxy, i have used polyester resin but the epoxy will be harder and less flexible. the boatcote products are reasonably priced and high quality.

http://boatcraft.com.au/Shop/index.php? ... x&cPath=15

If you want to do it right first time i'd recommend building a fixture out of steel RHS or hardwood beams if you have it, cover it with kitchen baking paper, lay your ply down, brush on the mixed epoxy on both pieces and start laying it up. scrape off any excess and put another layer of paper on top. (the paper will stop the stock blank gluing itself to the fixture) you won't need much epoxy and most have a long working time. you can predrill some dowel holes if it has to go together perfectly but if you are just going to cut it down it won't matter, too much resin and the layers will float and misalign so go slowly

then clamp your top beam on and wipe any resin that comes out. leave it for double the product cure time and then break the fixture down and trim it all up square with either a table saw or planer/thicknesser then you can mark it all out from nice straight edges

good luck with it, it's a project i've had in the back of my mind for a while as well.

I'm sure Trekin can add something here as he's made a few stocks on his piece of home made wizardry


Chronos

Edit: forgot to mention Boatcote also do cloths than can be put between the layers if added stiffness is required and filler powders that can be added to the same resin to make sandable filers for filling holes even bedding if it was just a rimfire

Thanks Chronos, the only thing I'd like to add is that the trend these days is to use polyurethane glues for laminated timber stocks. The glue I use is Sikabond® TechGrip by Sika®. I also use two small (12 tonne) workshop presses, run up to 5-6 tonnes, to clamp the workpieces together, this pressure, along with what can only be described as a micro foaming action of the Techgrip drives the glue very deep into the pieces being laminated. Mind you, this micro foaming can be disconcerting the fist time you see it in action, spread glue on pieces, clamp, wipe away excess, come back 10 minutes later and see this;
Image
I would also like to add (at the risk of doing myself out of some business), for those contemplating making their own stocks from ply, use 6 MM max thick pieces, the veneers in 6MM ply are not much thicker than 1.5 MM, any thicker and the veneers crack and break out when pressed flat in the laminating process (GlueLam structural beams are bad for this). This can cause voids and areas that don't get bonded, neither of which are any good for maintaining the strength needed for stocks, at least for rifles chambered above rimfire. These voids and cracks also make it impossible to cut/machine clean edges:
Image
Image
Having said that, GlueLam beams are good for making templates, and then sending the template to me to be duplicated in a more suitable material.
For those that are interested this is the above stock when machined from ply with 1.5 MM veneers;
Image
To see the fully finished stock you will need to go to that other forum site to view.
Image Rifle stock and pistol grip reproduction.
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by Slixxor » 20 Mar 2015, 12:44 pm

I've just made a stock for my Savage MKII classic .22. Good details in the other thread below this one. I used Selleys Kwik Grip, but you are right it is a bit rubbery. I used weights (around 75kg) to keep pressure on the join. For a .22 it doesnt seem to matter that much and the engagement feels quite solid and positive.

I haven't thought of using an epoxy but I do know that it does the best job, it is the most rigid option but can be naasty to work with. A lot of hardwood plys are bonded using formaldehyde which offers the best durability and stability.
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by Boatman » 20 Mar 2015, 2:46 pm

I've been a few years since I worked on the water with these materials but I think Sikaflex was the joiner of choice.

My avatar and name are picked from fond memories not recent experience sadly :(
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by Tiiger » 26 Mar 2015, 1:01 pm

How goes it Warrigul?
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by Warrigul » 26 Mar 2015, 4:54 pm

Tiiger wrote:How goes it Warrigul?


Still sitting on the bench, got a lathe and milling machine to bed, a tractor to split so I can look at what is going on in the gearbox and I tendered over the top for some work that I didn't want but unfortunately won the job.

So in a couple of weeks approx, a boyds stock is looking better and better.
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by Tiiger » 27 Mar 2015, 12:10 pm

Oh well.

There are worse problems to have than too much work.
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by horter » 31 Mar 2015, 12:24 pm

trekin wrote: I also use two small (12 tonne) workshop presses, run up to 5-6 tonnes, to clamp the workpieces together


So just using a couple of bricks is out? :lol:
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by kurl » 07 Apr 2015, 10:27 am

Crazy weights used for this stuff. I saw a how its made type show on skateboard and think they said they use 10t for compressing layers of maple for the boards.
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Re: Marine ply stock- question, glue?

Post by fawksel » 16 Apr 2015, 10:44 am

Is there any point doing this with more household or will it just not last?

Best I could manage would probably be a few 20kg sand bags :lol:
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