Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Improving and repairing firearms. Rifle bedding, barrel work, stock replacement and other ways to improve your firearms.

Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 30 Apr 2015, 4:14 pm

Things are moving along now.

Decided a while ago that the best way to get what i need for my shooting is to pull apart my Howa HB 223lr and use it to build two rifles; one in 7mm08 for deer and casual Fclass, the other a pest control rifle in an ecconomical .224 cartridge.

Howa 1500 SHort action 7mm08

- Remove barrel
- True action and enlarge bolt face
- Replace barrel with 24" True Flite, Light Straight Taper Premium Target in 7mm, chambered for 7-08: ORDERED
- Re-bed into the Boyd stock that it lives in so the new barrel is perfectly match
- New scope: ORDERED & PAID: Nikon Monarch5, 3-15x42, Side Focus (50-inf.), Tac/Targ Turrets, Plex Reticle

Very reasonable quote for this work. Barrel is about $550, smithing about $350.

223SHORT variant

- Zastava M85 left hand action: ORDERED: $450
- Barrel from Howa re-chambered to 223SHORT variant with 30deg shoulder and .313" long neck
- True action and fit barrel
- Full length bed into Boyd stock
- Scope from 223 onto this rifle: Vortex Diamondback 3-9x40

Again, the price for smithing work was very reasonable and about the same as for the Howa.

So, for the price of one Tikka Varmint, i will have two rifles with trued actions fully bedded with worked triggers.

Expect to be complete by the start of August or earlier if lucky.

:clap: :drinks: :D
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 04 May 2015, 12:18 pm

Ordered a reamer for the 223short variant. Not cheap!:shock:

Oh well. It should last for ages and i'll be able to chamber a number of rifles with it over the years.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Wes » 04 May 2015, 1:47 pm

Gwion wrote:Ordered a reamer for the 223short variant. Not cheap!:shock:


How much did that set you back :(
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Chronos » 04 May 2015, 3:05 pm

Gwion wrote:Ordered a reamer for the 223short variant. Not cheap!:shock:

Oh well. It should last for ages and i'll be able to chamber a number of rifles with it over the years.



Where did you order your reamer and what's your idea of not cheap?

I ordered a custom reamer from JGS and i thought pricing was reasonable.

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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 04 May 2015, 4:01 pm

I ordered from PTG. Was listed as $140ishUS but after an extra $25US for customising plus postage, plus exchange rate, it came out pushing close to $300AU.

Never heard of JGS. Maybe i should have checked them out first.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Chronos » 04 May 2015, 5:09 pm

Gwion wrote:I ordered from PTG. Was listed as $140ishUS but after an extra $25US for customising plus postage, plus exchange rate, it came out pushing close to $300AU.

Never heard of JGS. Maybe i should have checked them out first.



http://www.jgstools.com/mainarea.html

I post the link here for any others who may be interested in a reamer

I think my reamer cost $225 posted for a custom reamer (6.5X47 Lapua with a .312" neck and .080" freebore) they sent me a print and i made changes then the sent a modified file which i approved, i received the reamer in the post about 4 weeks after i approved the final specs and their communication was excellent

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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 04 May 2015, 6:23 pm

Very reasonable price. That's about what I was expecting. Bit late now for me.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Oldbloke » 04 May 2015, 7:31 pm

Why bother, see the weatherby sale discussion.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 04 May 2015, 8:38 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Why bother, see the weatherby sale discussion.


one word. LEFTY

Also, two nicely tuned actions and the rifles i actually want.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Mich » 05 May 2015, 10:03 am

Keep us posted Gwion.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 05 May 2015, 10:11 am

Ordered a stock (Boyds semi-inlet, unfinished) and scope mounts for the Zasty. Talley light weight one piece low. Will be added to my order for the Nikon Monarch 5 3-15x42 SF that i ordered for the Howa. Should arrive in about a month. The stock should be here in a week or so and i'll get started on finishing it with a home made potion of linseed oil and bee's wax.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by VICHunter » 05 May 2015, 10:44 am

Gwion wrote: i'll get started on finishing it with a home made potion of linseed oil and bee's wax.


The secret family recipe? :mrgreen:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 05 May 2015, 11:58 am

Something like that ;)
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Oldbloke » 05 May 2015, 6:18 pm

Gwion wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Why bother, see the weatherby sale discussion.


one word. LEFTY

Also, two nicely tuned actions and the rifles i actually want.


Bugger. :D
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Spooner » 06 May 2015, 12:02 pm

Gwion wrote:one word. LEFTY


Sucks to be a southpaw hmmmm.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Chronos » 06 May 2015, 12:24 pm

Spooner wrote:
Gwion wrote:one word. LEFTY


Sucks to be a southpaw hmmmm.


While i'm sure being left handed limits a shooters choice you still can't compare the performance of a $500 factory rifle to that of a semi custom.

Gwioin, the .223 short interest me. do you have some idea on the kind of performance you expect and the amount of work to form brass?

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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by 1290 » 06 May 2015, 2:39 pm

easy enough to order in a reamer, Ive had a pacific reamer sent through in no time... (just quietly they let down on service for other items...)

But i'm trying to understand the benefit of going custom on a short 223??? Why not just go std 223 REM and develop reduced loads??
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 06 May 2015, 4:11 pm

Probably little benefit in the end, other than reduced powder needs for similar velocities and i'm hoping less noise for pest control.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Wobble » 10 May 2015, 5:11 pm

Gwion wrote:Probably little benefit in the end, other than reduced powder needs for similar velocities and i'm hoping less noise for pest control.


Any chance of a suppressor permit?
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 10 May 2015, 8:07 pm

Wobble wrote:
Gwion wrote:Probably little benefit in the end, other than reduced powder needs for similar velocities and i'm hoping less noise for pest control.


Any chance of a suppressor permit?


Thought about looking into it but not sure of the process.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 10 May 2015, 8:23 pm

Chronos wrote:
Spooner wrote:
Gwion wrote:one word. LEFTY


Sucks to be a southpaw hmmmm.


While i'm sure being left handed limits a shooters choice you still can't compare the performance of a $500 factory rifle to that of a semi custom.

Gwioin, the .223 short interest me. do you have some idea on the kind of performance you expect and the amount of work to form brass?

Chronos


Hey Chronos. Previous velocity testing in the States has given about 3200fps out of a target barrel. I don't recall how long that barrel was but def over 24". The barrel I'm using off my Howa will only be 17" after refitting so I'm hoping around 3000fps. This is with 40gn varmint syle bullets. I am also tweaking the case design slightly . I'll post the comparative drawing of case spec when I'm on a PC. Charge weight should be about 11-13gn of something like 2205.

Cheers
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 11 May 2015, 5:52 am

Update. Custom dies have been ordered for the 223McSHORT:

Form/trim, full length, neck sizer and seating die.
Brass will be run through the form/trim die in the first pass, then trimmed roughly to length, then through the full length sizer and put on a Forster neck trimmer. I will also turn the necks down, but this isn't necessary on the standard 223short., as the reamer is spec'd for an unturned necked down case. I just feel this is too thick for easy seating and consistent tension so this is one of the changes i am implementing. The case neck/shoulder will then be annealed before fire forming.

It will be a job to size all the cases because i have about 400 x 233rem cases, but once i do they should last many many firings, especially with periodic annealing to prevent split necks.

Other changes to the McSHORT are 30deg neck as opposed to 23deg as well as the same neck length as a 222 (0.313) as opposed to that of a 223. There is also a slightly longer body length due to change of shoulder angle (from neck/shoulder junction) and slightly less taper. These changes should give a slight increase in case capacity and with the 30deg shoulder i'm hoping for some better velocities as well.

Accuracy for the SHORT has been quite good in the States but there's been speculation that the 30deg shoulder and 0.313 neck length may aid in refining accuracy as well. So, i thought i'd give these changes a run and see what happens. :unknown: :drinks:

Specs of the 223short & 223McSHORT on the pics below.

223short ORIGINAL case specs
223shortv1finaql.jpg
223shortv1finaql.jpg (20.03 KiB) Viewed 7288 times


223McSHORT case specs
223McShort.jpg
223McShort.jpg (45.34 KiB) Viewed 7288 times
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by wheedle » 11 May 2015, 10:10 am

Gwion wrote:Thought about looking into it but not sure of the process.


What state are you in? Must be some online stuff to get the ball rolling on the state Police website.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 03 Jun 2015, 1:08 pm

So.
B709 has arrived for the .284cal barrel. Barrel should go into production shortly.
Stock has arrived for the 223McShort. PTA has arrived for Zastava action, which should be at gunshop anytime now.
Brass has arrived for the 7mm08.
Reamer has gone into production, so should be ready soon.
Same with custom loading dies.
Scope is ordered and should be here by week's end or next week: Sightron S-TAC 2.5-17.5x56 (cancelled Nikon order because turret tracking unknown quality for f-class).
Same with 20moa rail and tac mounts from Talley.

Still need to source a whole bunch of bits and pieces for loading but that will have to wait for the end of the month when i should get a good pay for a side job i have on the go. This will be the last big spend (big for me) on shooting for the next few years, unless my business goals pay off, then i might treat myself in another 18months; might have to throw in one of these new lever shotties while i'm at it! :thumbsup: :clap: :drinks:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Farmjer » 04 Jun 2015, 2:44 pm

Gwion wrote:Thought about looking into it but not sure of the process.


What state are you in?
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 04 Jun 2015, 5:55 pm

Farmjer wrote:
Gwion wrote:Thought about looking into it but not sure of the process.


What state are you in?


Tas.

Had a bit of a look around online since the last post and got the impression your reason had to be employment related. I'll get around to asking the Firearms Branch but not holding out a lot of hope.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Releb » 05 Jun 2015, 2:21 pm

Did a search in the TAS firearms act and it only says they're prohibited. No mention of exemptions or "unless" in the Act

FIREARMS ACT 1996 - SECT 118

118. Silencers and magazines
(1) A person must not use, keep, possess, sell or manufacture any implement designed to suppress the sound caused by the discharge of a firearm.


http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/tas/ ... /s118.html

:?: :(
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by 1290 » 05 Jun 2015, 3:34 pm

155. Exemptions
.........
(4) The Commissioner, subject to any specified condition, may exempt a person or class of persons from a provision of this Act relating to the possession or use of any or any combination of the following:

(a) any ammunition;

(b) a firearm;

(c) a firearms magazine;

(d) a firearm sound suppressor.

:thumbsup:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Norton » 09 Jun 2015, 11:04 am

Would make too much sense to put the exemption in the same section as the suppressor legislation :mrgreen:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 18 Jun 2015, 9:45 am

Barrel is ready for the 7-08. Just need to get it shipped from NZ now.
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