Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Improving and repairing firearms. Rifle bedding, barrel work, stock replacement and other ways to improve your firearms.

Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 12 Oct 2015, 9:12 pm

The 8208 worked a treat when that barrel was on the Howa. Tuned loads to about 1/2moa with three different bullets.

The seating is to max mag length, which puts me around 10thou to 20thou or so off the lands. I don't have the gear to get more accurate data of seating depth. Just find the lands and work in screw turns of the seater. 1/2 turn gives me about 20thou I think and I cranked it about 1/3 turn off the lands to max mag. Might need to crank it a little more because the rounds are a little tight in the mag.
It is a pest control round/rifle.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Strikey » 13 Oct 2015, 6:56 pm

Its all good then, make them fit the mag and feed reliably, should not miss too many pests with that combo ;)
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 13 Oct 2015, 7:07 pm

Yeah... the feed reliably thing isn't working... might have to creep the bullet further in and hope the accuracy doesn't drop off.

Got a few last night out to about 140m but one of the rounds hung up in the mag and it stopped feeding ok. Had to dump them and single feed the last three rounds. Then i gave up and went back to the house.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 19 Oct 2015, 6:42 am

So.
I've been having trouble getting comfortable behind the 7mm-08 and it's been showing up down range at 500-600yds. Very inconsistent results. The inconsistency also has something to do with inconsistent neck tension, as some bullets where very noticeably more resistant on seating (all fire formed and neck sized now so that's not an excuse anymore). The biggest issue has be the comfort factor and just not being able to get relaxed and repeatably control the rifle shot to shot.

So, why? I ask myself..... i was 'comfy as' behind the rifle before new barrel and scope....

Ahhh... new scope.... different height for cheek weld and, as it is MUCH longer than my little old scope, getting the right eye relief requires that my head is further back on the butt stock.

I've come up with a solution and in dry firing practice it seems to have worked, even if it is a bit of a "farm yard" fix.

Length of pull has had 1" added to it and i added a very rustic version of adjustable buttplate for comfy shouldering with no torqing cant.

My improvised comb riser needed a bit of height added to it, so i used layers of closed cell foam. As it now looked even uglier, I also covered it in a bit of Auscam i've had lying around for years. It also needs to be removeable so i can get the cleaning rod down the barrel, so i velcroed it on. :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:
Not the best solution, but it does work.

Pics below for your amusement.

BUTT in progress.jpg
BUTT in progress.jpg (215.96 KiB) Viewed 6890 times


BUTT finished.jpg
BUTT finished.jpg (210.63 KiB) Viewed 6890 times


Yes, that is a cheap nylon chopping board from Woolies! :drinks: :clap: :wtf:

Like i said... it's not the prettiest or most glamorous solution but on my limited budget it will, hopefully, at least get me comfortable behind the rifle and get those rounds falling in the same spot... :thumbsup:

The GRS stock is going to have to wait a LOOOONG time. :thumbsdown: :problem:

Cheers
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by bigfellascott » 19 Oct 2015, 7:39 am

Nothing wrong with making stuff yourself, infact I love doing it, beats paying someone else to do what you can do with a bit of effort and imagination. There was an old fella at my local gun club who had a shotgun that looked like it was put together by Frankenstein, well all I can say it was butt ugly but he used to beat the ****** out of everyone he shot against, even with their fancy 10-20K shotguns! :lol:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 19 Oct 2015, 8:31 am

Yeah... she's a bit of a Frankenstein alright! :D

AS long as it works, i don't really care what it looks like. It's nice to have nice things but better to have something functional that you can use well.

The Mrs did have a laugh at it though... true back country craftsmanship (to paraphrase her comments).

:D
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by bigfellascott » 19 Oct 2015, 9:25 pm

Gwion wrote:Yeah... she's a bit of a Frankenstein alright! :D

AS long as it works, i don't really care what it looks like. It's nice to have nice things but better to have something functional that you can use well.

The Mrs did have a laugh at it though... true back country craftsmanship (to paraphrase her comments).

:D

That's it make it work for you regardless of look I say. :thumbsup:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Chickenhawk » 22 Oct 2015, 9:27 am

Gwion wrote:The Mrs did have a laugh at it though... true back country craftsmanship (to paraphrase her comments).


Is that like wife code for "you're an idiot" :lol:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 22 Oct 2015, 3:55 pm

Pretty much ;) :D
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Strikey » 22 Oct 2015, 8:26 pm

I absolutely enjoy seeing some of the ingenuity people use to solve problems and save a few bucks, if it works for you mate, go for it and who gives a s**t what it looks like when you're posting some good scores/groups at those long distances :drinks:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 25 Oct 2015, 8:26 am

Happy to report that the farm yard changes have made a marked difference to being able to get comfortable behind the 7mm08.

Managed a 50 & a 52 at 600 yards yesterday. Most consistent with the new barrel so far. Couple of rushed shots with poor wind reading and issues with a rest kept me from pushing the scores any higher.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Ken » 26 Oct 2015, 9:44 am

Go the chopping board :lol:
Whatever you do, don't look at the mayonnaise...
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 26 Oct 2015, 9:46 am

Ken wrote:Go the chopping board :lol:


Haha... i know; right!?! :wtf: :lol: :clap: :unknown:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 12 Feb 2016, 12:40 pm

Small update in the form of a whinge.

First contacted a custom die maker about dies for the 223McShort 10 MONTHS AGO! Confirmed order and dimensions (for the second time) in early Nov; still no joy. Just emailed to find out WTF.

Also, back in Oct, the reamer arrived with my smith but not the GO gauge i ordered. Emailed Pacific Tool and Gauge to confirm payment and prod them for the GO gauge... nope, still nothing.

Anyway. It's given me time to ponder the virtues of using my short (18") 1:12 Howa barrel for the project. As i'm planning on loading this with light bullets and designed with a very short lead, i'm toying with the idea of ordering a 20" 1:14 barrel, or trying to find a 2nd hand 222rem barrel. If anyone has a 222 barrel in reasonable nick lying around, please let me know.

Any thoughts, or should i just save cash and go the 1:12 barrel?
I'm thinking it should handle the short light bullets if the chamber is cut for it......
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 22 Feb 2016, 10:49 am

Very frustrating....


PTG still aren't answering emails with an ETA on the go gauge.

Custom die maker wont give me an expected lead time and after 10 months thinking i already had them ordered they now say i have to pay in full to confirm the order. With no estimated lead time, it makes me nervous.

Do i just start again with another company......

FYI: various custom die makers (not the one i have dealt with so far).
http://www.hornady.com/store/Custom-Dies-Category
http://www.neiljones.com/
http://www.redding-reloading.com/online ... -made-dies
http://www.whiddengunworks.com/contact-us/
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by sandgroperbill » 22 Feb 2016, 1:00 pm

Justthrowing it out there, but have you tried lee? I seem to recall somewhere that they can do custom dies. May be wrong, but worth an email to find out
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Feb 2016, 1:19 pm

I guess this can be one of the drawbacks of doing a custom oddball cal, sounds like they just aren't that interested in doing it.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 22 Feb 2016, 1:35 pm

Yeah... i think i might get onto one of the other companies. Just doesn't seem right giving someone money when they have been so up and down with communication.

I email the owner and he is all into it, getting all the specs right; then i think it's all go and i hear nothing for ages again.... email... same deal....

As for PTG, very disappointed. I paid ages ago for this GO gauge and they wont return an ETA.

Sandgroper, Lee do custom dies as well but i think i'll go the Redding route first, then Hornady.

PS. Not to mention the lack of go gauge and dies putting my schedule so far back and making me pay twice for chamber and fitting. I needed it shooting so got the smith to fit the barrel in 223rem while waiting for the McShort gear to arrive.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Redwood » 29 Feb 2016, 9:54 am

Gwion wrote:Custom die maker wont give me an expected lead time and after 10 months thinking i already had them ordered they now say i have to pay in full to confirm the order.


That is piss poor :thumbsdown:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by 1sikxt » 06 May 2016, 10:57 pm

If you don't mind me asking what gun smith you using
Howa 204 varmint
Anschütz 1530 222
Savage 12 223
Weatherby 22-250
Savage custom 10 243
Savage 10 308
Savage 12 308
Savage 110 338 lap fcp
Lithgow 22
Brno 1 22
Webley and scott 12g
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 07 May 2016, 12:17 am

A guy in Tas called Rolf Hey.

Unfortunately, my sporadic finances and issues with component suppliers have ground work on the 223McShort to a halt for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 15 Feb 2017, 10:23 am

Whoa!!!

After a good (or bad) 20+ months of waiting, the custom die maker has emailed me to say the dies are ready for shippment if i care to pay for them....
ALMOST 2 YEARS AFTER I ORDERED THEM!!!

Well, looks like the McShort might be in action some time the first half of this year. :thumbsup:

Still no sign of the go-gauge, though..... :x ..... I've ask my smith if he can turn one up from the reamer specs.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by brett1868 » 15 Feb 2017, 11:58 am

Gwion wrote:Whoa!!!

After a good (or bad) 20+ months of waiting, the custom die maker has emailed me to say the dies are ready for shippment if i care to pay for them....
ALMOST 2 YEARS AFTER I ORDERED THEM!!!

Well, looks like the McShort might be in action some time the first half of this year. :thumbsup:

Still no sign of the go-gauge, though..... :x ..... I've ask my smith if he can turn one up from the reamer specs.



Sweet....some progress, looks like the race to get first shots down range is on mate :) My stock departed the U.S on the 8/2 and should be with the smith this week providing customs don't sit on it for a month I might actually have the rifle back late next week :)

PT&G did my reamers and gauges, took a couple months to arrive though which was about what I expected. I'm surprised yours took so long, were they such an oddball reamer?
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 15 Feb 2017, 12:32 pm

Custom reamer... there are only a few 223short reamers around that i know of and the McShort has a few tweaks that were discussed with the guy who came up with the cartridge.

I ordered the reamer with a squarer shoulder, the neck is longer (same length as 222), i ordered a narrower neck because i will turn the necks down after forming the cases unlike the 223short that has a mega thick neck as it is just the same thickness as the brass at that point of the 223 cartridge. The case has also got a slightly straighter wall and a 30deg shoulder instead of 23deg (these tweaks for more powder capacity but also shared characteristics with a lot of very efficient small case cartridges). I thought about a 40deg neck but as it has to feed well from a mag, i thought 30deg was the max i could go.

The 223short is getting the same velocities as a full size 223 with half the powder. I'm hoping the tweaks i've made will add a little speed and accuracy. I intend this as an economical pest control rifle shooting light bullets very quickly with little powder and hopefully a greatly reduced report over a full size 223rem. Ideally i'd like to source a 1:14 twist to handle 35-40gn bullets better but ill have to start with my current heavy 1:12 barrel.

I also like the idea that it will be uniquely my rifle.

The dies, i have no idea why they took so long but now they are ready i'll get over my irritation and just get them shipped.

Looks like the race to fire first is well and truly in your hands. I'm still going to have to find the cash for the smith work, which could take a bit of time with all these other projects on. Good thing is that Rolf is extremely efficient when it comes to turning work around, so once i have the cash the rifle should be good to start fire forming brass within a week or two. I expect maybe April might be a realistic time frame to aim for.

Can't wait to see your custom Project50!
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by brett1868 » 15 Feb 2017, 3:17 pm

Can't wait to see your custom Project50!


Neither can I, been a very long build. I bit the bullet so to speak and bought a March 8-80x56 Tactical MTR along with a Seb Max coaxial rest this morning. Scope should arrive tomorrow and the rest probably Friday / Monday. These are the final components so the major expenditure is finally done with, even came in a little under budget so if I add another 20c I can buy a can of coke :)
The stocks not here yet, the smith needs 2-3 days to fit it and there's another 3-4 days for shipping. You may still get the first shots in as I'll need to get a trip up bush approved by the Russian Princess to shoot mine.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 15 Feb 2017, 4:15 pm

Better put in your application for leave, then' :D
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Feb 2017, 10:01 am

Gwion wrote:Whoa!!!

After a good (or bad) 20+ months of waiting, the custom die maker has emailed me to say the dies are ready for shippment if i care to pay for them....
ALMOST 2 YEARS AFTER I ORDERED THEM!!!

Well, looks like the McShort might be in action some time the first half of this year. :thumbsup:

Still no sign of the go-gauge, though..... :x ..... I've ask my smith if he can turn one up from the reamer specs.


IMO that is crap service. You should get them half price.

But glad to hear you finally have then. Rifle would be useless without them.
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Gwion » 16 Feb 2017, 10:04 am

Oh, don't worry. I have my own opinion on how this has run. I was tempted to ditch the supplier and order elsewhere but seeing they have finally come to the party i will just suck it up and complete the purchase. Certainly wont be recommending them to anyone, though!
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by RoginaJack » 16 Feb 2017, 12:38 pm

Yes, It certainly does and I'm told I'm very good! :mrgreen:

Compare the cost of rifles - R/H v L/H, even toilet paper is only right handed.... :lol:
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Re: Building New Rifles: 7mm08 & 223SHORT

Post by Jimbo047 » 03 Jun 2017, 7:50 am

Thanks for the write up. What sort of accuracy are you getting with the 7mm-08 (Howa action + True Flite barrel)? Thinking of something similar.
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