Brass stuck in chamber after firing

[zobster]

Hi guys, I've got a problem. My howa 1500. 223 was functioning flawless for the first 300+ rounds until tonight.

I fired a round and the brass did not eject and got stuck in the chamber.

When I got home, I straighten a clothes hanger and pushed it out from the muzzle end. Upon close inspection of the spent brass, I noticed nothing out of the ordinary.

So I tossed the stuck brass and tried to cycle another 5 spent brass that ejected normally. Out of the 5, 3 got stuck in the chamber again.

Then I thought it must be some dirt in the chamber, so I ran the bore snake through it 5 times and tried again with brass that ejected normally before.

2 of the brass got stuck again! Wtf! Then I thought that the brass might have expended somewhat in storage so I load some cartridges that I've loaded without primer or powder and tried cycling them.

They cycled normally and all ejected fine.

Now my question is this, should I bring it to the gunsmith and have it checked out or is this normal? Should I be concerned at all? Have anyone experienced this?

I don't know if this is relevant or not but the first 200 rounds fired in this rifle were ppu 223 sp 55gr and the next 100 or so rounds were fiocchi 223 ballistics tip 55gr. The incident happened tonight with ppu 223 55gr sp.

Please help.

[Oldbloke]

Coat hanger? Sounds like you dont have a cleaning kit. Suggest you buy a decent cleaning kit and make good use of it. Snakes would only remove loose fouling.
https://ssaa.org.au/stories/hints-tips.html good article here or search the forum, there are plenty of threads.
or you can give me your dodgy Howa.

Ps. What was out of the ordinary about the case that u tossed out?

[Strikey]

Why do people still think of straightening a coat hanger to push down the barrel, do you not understand the possible damage you are doing to the bore? Throw that Boresnake in the bin, buy a decent cleaning kit and rod, they really are not that expensive and learn to clean your rifle properly. My money is on a dirty chamber caused by dragging that Boresnake through it.

Merry Xmas

[Oldbloke]

"My money is on a dirty chamber caused by dragging that Boresnake through it." My guess too.

[brett1868]

As per Strikey and Oldbloke, buy a proper cleaning kit and clean it thoroughly from the breach. What isn't clear is if you managed to open the action and the case was still stuck in the chamber, if this is the case then check the extractor and clean the bolt.

[zobster]

I managed to open the action and the case was still stuck in the chamber. I've removed the firing pin from the bolt and gave that and the extractor claw a good cleaning. But when I tried cycling some spent brass it still got stuck, every time it got stuck I still managed to open the action.

I don't know if it's important but when I'm pushing the bolt forward to close the action to chamber the spent brass, I could feel that if the brass was going to get stuck, I would require more force to close the action.

I know that bore snakes aren't the best tool for the job. I was going to get a decent kit after the new year as I'm short of funds currently.

[Strikey]

At the minimum spent brass needs to be neck sized to enable re-chambering, the cartridge case has expanded after firing so closes down the chamber tolerances that is why it feels hard to close the bolt and if the chamber is dirty you are only going to jam the case in there. Can you borrow a cleaning kit from someone to give the rifle a good once over clean or have someone show you how to do it properly before you cause any non repairable damage?

[pomemax]

Sounds as tho you are not experienced at cleaning its really surprising how little will foul a case in the breach.
Go to youtube type in "correct way to clean a rifle" you will see that a bore snake or pull through does not get a mention till about 15th there is a good reason for this , a bore snake does have its place in your hunting gear when you may have fired a few shots in a day give the bore a wipe through .
Cleaning is a different thing all together watch a few videos and get a cleaning kit I don't recommend that you get a sectional rod a full length coated rod works best and a few small brushes nylon and brass and a mop personally i used patches and jags a lot don't forget some bolt brushes small wire brush or nylon for getting crud off bolt head.
Why Strikey said about coat hangers they will cause you a lot of problems you may not even know about yet the crown of your barrel is as important as your aim if you damage it gunsmith to get fixed .
I would hazard a guess and say the ppu were fine then you used the cheapies then ppu got suck cause the fiocchi 223 ballistics tip 55gr were a dirtier round and fouled on the ppu.
I have found some of my ppu cases actually are tapered by 2 -3th at the primer end ( not sure why may be the brass manufacture or when they fill them firs time ) will not cause any problem in a clean chamber I noticed when i was reloading a few it was the same with ppu in 30/30 as well .

[Wm.Traynor]

I am concerned about the state of your muzzle, in view of your use of a coathanger. Desperate though you may have been, it is possible that damage has accurred. Before you buy anything, use a magnifying glass to examine the muzzle for irregularities in the appearance of the rifling, right at the end of the barrel. If there is damage, you might want to take it to a smith to see what he thinks about re-crowning or shortening the barrel.
Good Luck

[zobster]

I've cleaning rifles before when I was in the army. We used a sectional rod and ran the bronze brush dipped in oil through the bore a few times then wiped it clean with fennellite patches. And that's it. I just thought that the bore snake was a all-in-one solution.

[Wm.Traynor]

I just thought that the bore snake was a all-in-one solution.

Sorry zobster, it really isn't. To get the carbon out you need a bronze brush (or three ) and powder solvent. All that scrubbing will attack the copper fouling but if it persists, you need a copper solvent. After all that, oil with Ballistol. This stuff prevents rust for a short while but in addition, reduces the elevation between your first shot(s) and the rest of your group.

My 223 was a range rifle and only fired 25 shots of a Saturday afternoon. Even so, it took an hour the next morning to clean it and lube the bolt. Sorry mate; it's the truth. I never noticed the time or minded the effort. To me it wasn't a chore but a part of shooting

[zobster]

To be honest, I've never once hated or complained about cleaning my rifle. It doesn't matter if I reach home at 3am after shooting, I'll take apart the rifle to clean and lube before putting it away in the safe. The partner is not too impressed but that's my rule, clean rifle in clean rifle out. I know that the bore snake is not a effective method so I thought instead of putting it through once, I'll pull it through 5-10 time or until I can see that the bore is clean and shiny.

Anyways, I have to admit, I do really need a decent rod, guide and cleaning solutions. It's just that I can really justify paying close to $100 for a metal rod.

[Oldbloke]

$100???
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GUN-CLEANING ... Sw7FRWXYcX

Just add eds red and your in business
http://www.handloads.com/articles/?id=9

Yep there are better kits and 1 piece rods are better but at $25 bloody good value.

[Rocker]

I just thought that the bore snake was a all-in-one solution.

Really just to keep in the bag and/or carry around in the field in case you get some muck in the barrel.

You can carry a snake where you can't practically carry a 1 piece rod obviously.

[deanp100]

I wouldn't be too worried about damaging the barrel from one hanger use. I wouldn,t make a long term habit of it. Barrels are quite hard. I have an old 223 that sat for many years unused and built up a spot of rust in the chamber that gripped every case. Was ripping the heads off cases . Used a 9 mm wire brush to scrub chamber. The cases ,once removed showed clearly the scratch mark at the point they were gripping.
Deano

[zobster]

Well, I went out and bought a one piece cleaning rod and bronze brush. After which the howa received 40 minutes of TLC.

Now, I went shooting last night and after 4 shots, the spent brass again remained stuck in the chamber and failed to eject. The first 3 rounds required me to quite forcefully push the bolt forward a couple of times in order for the brass to eject.

Could someone tell me whats wrong or should I just bring it to the smith for a look?

[Wm.Traynor]

Well, you have dealt with any dirt in the chamber by using the bronze brush and that did not work. Disappointing. Try resizing your brass with the FLS die. Keep turning it in to the press half a turn at a time, until you get a few that chamber and extract properly.

Good Luck

[zobster]

Well, you have dealt with any dirt in the chamber by using the bronze brush and that did not work. Disappointing. Try resizing your brass with the FLS die. Keep turning it in to the press half a turn at a time, until you get a few that chamber and extract properly.

Good Luck

I have not used any reloads yet. It's factory loads that gets stuck after firing. Unfired rounds will chamber and extract without issues.

[Oldbloke]

"What was out of the ordinary about the case that u tossed out?"
Got a pic of a stuck case?

[brett1868]

This is really looking like an extractor issue more and more. Any chance of a pic showing the bolt face up close?

Had another thought during dinner....how clean is the actual chamber? possibly a small jag or sharp edge grabbing the case after being fired....just thinking out loud.

[Oldbloke]

"how clean is the actual chamber? possibly a small jag or sharp edge grabbing the case "

Yeh, did you clean the chamber or just the barrel?

Suggest you have a good look in the chamber with a torch.

[zobster]

I've cleaned both the bore and chamber very thoroughly a couple of nights ago. I'll get a picture of the bolt face when I get home tonight. I'm also starting to think of it as an extractor problem as well.

I've contacted the dealer that I've bought my rifle from and he suggested that I run another brand of ammunition through it to see if it happens again. He's happy to send it back to OSA but if they determine that it's an ammunition problem, it's going to cost me $200 for administration fees.

[zobster]

Here's the close up if the bolt face, I've also cleaned the chamber again, and close up inspection of the chamber reveal clean, shiny surface with no dirt/rust to speak of.

I've email osa about this issue and the call back from them this afternoon was to try another brand of ammunition and see if it happens again.

bolt1.jpg (62.87 KiB) Viewed 13539 times

bolt2.jpg (65.17 KiB) Viewed 13539 times

[Strikey]

I can't seem to view your photos, it might be my computer skills but exactly what brand of ammo have you been using, can't find any mention of it? I have a Weatherby Vanguard which is the same rifle and so far have had no issues with Federal, Winchester and Outback ammo ( OSA by another name, made with ADI brass, powder, Sierra projectiles ) it shoots so good I don't know if I will bother reloading for this rifle. Perhaps the dealer and OSA are correct in saying try a different brand of ammo

[zobster]

It ran 180 rounds of ppu flawlessly, then about 40 fiocchi no problems as well. I then ran ppu through it and the problems started

[Oldbloke]

Mmm could be a bad batch of ppu ammo? Perhaps If you still have the boxes check if its all the same batch number

[Strikey]

I'm a big fan of OSA ammo since becoming a .223 owner so I would recommend you give that a go before sending the rifle away, have seen this ammo deliver some stunning results from Tikka's, Sako's ( as you would expect ), Remingtons, Howa's at my local range

It ran 180 rounds of ppu flawlessly, then about 40 fiocchi no problems as well. I then ran ppu through it and the problems started

[zobster]

The PPU was from the same batch, I double check.

I've contacted the dealer that I got my rifle from and the agreed plan was to clean (which I already had) and run some OSA ammunition through it.

I know what you are talking about the osa ammunition, my mate's tikka loves them! Could shoot the nuts off a wallaby at 200m if he had better aim!

[Yelp]

The wallabies must be thankful he doesn't

[Oldbloke]

The wallabies must be thankful he doesn't

Not if their into family planning.