How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

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How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 24 Apr 2016, 9:31 am

My Mossberg 464 strings vertically. The front and rear barrel bands are loose and you can move them easily with your fingers. There seems to be no pressure between the screw for the magazine cap and the barrel. A hole has been drilled in the underside of the barrel to accept this screw which fits easily without bottoming-out; the bluing at the tip of the screw is intact and the mag tube is loose enough to be pulled away from the barrel.

The rear barrel band screw is bent and that is all that I can find that is wrong with this rifle. The screw is difficult to remove and install and I am worried the turning the screw might be damaging the thread in the band. However, the fore end will move back and forth a little. The screw was not tight enough to prevent movement. I have heard/read, where such looseness is not a bad thing but this rifle shoots 6" vertical goups at 50 yards that are little more than 1" wide.

How can I shrink the vertical down to the horizontal spread? That would be very nice :D

As an experiment (another one :( ) I am going to test some loads with the fore end removed. Last Thursday I shot gripping the fore end instead of resting it in the cradle of the front rest. I pulled the rifle in to my shoulder, resting the back of my hand on the cradle. The butt-end rested on the rear bag as usual. If it groups without the fore end next week, as I suspect it will, that will tell me that there is something wrong in front of the action. But what will it be? The bent screw?

I am sorely tempted to try to straighten the screw but that could work harden it, couldn't it? And that could lead it to break. Is that right? I will try to order a new one from the US. Maybe Brownells. It should be faster than an Oz dealer and by the time I travel to and from the shop, the petrol gets very expensive :o Cheaper overall to get something posted from the States I think.

Well, what are your opinions? Is it the screw? Is everything too loose? I welcome your wisdom. I don't have a clue :? :?
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Chronos » 24 Apr 2016, 10:25 am

Oh boy, what a pickle. Hahaha

Firstly if the connection between the shooter and the barrelled action isn't consistent then you've got an issue. You need to sort out the stock as a priority. Even if you try and straighten the bent screw it may never be right. Just take it to an industrial screw and bolt place and get one the same.

Some smart placement of business cards could tighten everything else up then go shoot it again and see what happens.

All that plastic and metal can be hard to tighten up, once I got it sorted I'd even consider epoxying everything together tight

Good luck with it and keep us informed.

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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 24 Apr 2016, 11:22 am

Thanks Chronos. So firstly, you think everything is too loose. Second, would such a screw be available "off the shelf". I always thought American gun screws had no resemblance to anything of ours. But there you are. Learn something everyday :thumbsup: I have a list of metric and imperial threads and will compare it against the chart.
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Chronos » 24 Apr 2016, 12:43 pm

TBH I don't know if anything is too loose but mate i'd be trying everything before i wasted any more ammo

what cal is it?

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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 24 Apr 2016, 4:45 pm

Chronos
It's a 30/30, the only lever centrefire that Mossberg makes

bentaz
Matching will not be straightforward. The diameter is 0.111" and as near as I can calculate, there are 38 teeth per inch.
I think importing will be the way to go but I will have a look at metric threads first.
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by sbd3927 » 24 Apr 2016, 10:30 pm

Trying to envisage what the bands might be, and how they are loose, some matches with old rifles I've seen.

Before trying to chase down a matching thread for an authentic repair... why not try some hose clips? Use some packing card, plastic, inner tube if marking the finish is a concern, or even tighten them over the existing bands. Lock it all up tight and see if it's the start of a solution.
Ie. if matching the thread in the band is the problem, make a new band? Depends on skills available.. or a gunsmith.
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Gwion » 25 Apr 2016, 6:18 am

For screws and such, Brownells sell a huge colection of screws online. There is even a 'complete set' of gun specific screws that you can buy in an organiser at quite a reasonable price. You might want to stock up on other things to make the postage worthwhile, though.
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 25 Apr 2016, 10:06 am

sbd3927
If you entered www.mossberg.com and looked for their lever guns, you would soon see what the barrel bands looked like but you are right, I am looking for some packing to go between the bands and the barrel and bycycle inner tube could be a place to start.
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 25 Apr 2016, 10:07 am

Gwion
I will be looking up Brownells, thanks.
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 26 Apr 2016, 10:54 am

Hey you blokes, guess what.

Glen Bontoft of Phoenix Sports Trading, is sending me a screw in the mail today, FREE.

What a Good Bloke :D :thumbsup: :clap:

Neither Brownells nor Numrich, even list the 464 :o
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Gwion » 26 Apr 2016, 11:25 am

Good news! :)
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Rakk » 26 Apr 2016, 2:17 pm

Top notch. Great service :thumbsup:
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 03 May 2016, 4:03 pm

As threatened in my initial post, the rifle was tested without mag tube and fore end. It still shoots vertical groups and is failing to fire one shot in four after a change of primers. The previous brand FTF too but all the factory ammo worked a couple of weeks ago.
Over the weekend a 0.010 brass "shim" was epoxied inside the rear barrel band to take up the space between the barrel and band. It fits very snugly :) The new screw came while I was at the range this pm and it screws in easier than the bent one. Thank you Phoenix Sports Trading :thumbsup:

I have been wondering if the looseness of the rear band might have resulted in or contributed to, the screw becoming bent. For instance, could the vibration of the barrel during firing have hammered a bend in the screw, or was it installed bent originally?
These lever guns are one helluva learning curve :crazy: :huh: :wtf:
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Gwion » 03 May 2016, 8:45 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:My Mossberg 464 strings vertically. The front and rear barrel bands are loose and you can move them easily with your fingers.



Sounds like a crappy problem to solve. How the hell do you bed everything nice a solid on a rifle like this? I have no idea but good luck with it all!
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Bazooker » 04 May 2016, 8:29 am

I read somewhere recently that vertical stringing is associated with variations in neck tension/crimping?

Trying to think of where that was.

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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Bazooker » 04 May 2016, 10:08 am

Here is an article that could contain some clues:-

http://www.6mmbr.com/verticaltips.html

Baz.
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Wm.Traynor » 04 May 2016, 10:15 am

Bazooker wrote:Here is an article that could contain some clues:-

http://www.6mmbr.com/verticaltips.html
Baz.


That was interesting mate. I am getting FT fire issues and thought that they were separate problems but maybe that and the stringing is connected.
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Re: How Can I Fix Vertical Stringing?

Post by Bazooker » 04 May 2016, 11:11 am

Dragging firing pin? need to check it for straightness, also check firing pin hole for off centre?

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