Stoked with .22 Dasher build

[marksman]

I'm so stoked
my new reamer came and Ive sent all the gear off to the smith for him to put together
fair dinkum going off like a frog in a sock
may have it back before xmass
oh yea nearly forgot it's a dasher, a 22 dasher

[Daddybang]

Nice!!!! Looking forward to some pictures

[duncan61]

You will be the marksman with a dasher

[pete1]

Nice!!!! Looking forward to some pictures

1+

[marksman]

You will be the marksman with a dasher

that's why I am the marksman this will be my second

anyway I will give a bit of an account on this build
I bought this mauser 98 recently from some very good people in NSW
it came transport damaged so the seller and I came to an amicable compromise
this is the photo that advertised the rifle

it caught my eye straight away as I admit to be an obsessive mauserholic
you never really know what you are buying from elsewhere until you have it in your hands
firstly when I held the rifle I saw the transport damage that as I said was amicably sorted out no drama's
once home I had a real good look over this old full bore rifle
I could see it had been someones very cherished prized possession at one time, it soon would be again
it has a custom trigger, a real walnut stock, a lithgow made black mountain 308 palma barrel (still in very good order)
it is an old K98 Kriegsmodell "war model" action, when the germans were under the pump in war time they omitted some things such as the bolt rail guide and drilled round holes under the bolt instead of oval for cooling/venting in the bolt


I wanted to shoot this rifle but because of the damage I decided to just rebarrel to a smaller cal as I didn't think it would take the recoil of the 308 for long,
if it didn't shoot that is what I would do anyway
I have a 6mm dasher that shoots dots and a good friend has a 22 dasher that really impressed me so that's what I decided to do
here is a photo of (left to right) 6mm dasher, 6mm br case, 22 dasher, 22 br

the dasher will do what the 22-250 ackley will do just more efficient
I have repaired the transport damage, fitted a rear pillar and refinished the stock so far
here is a photo of the pillar installed and what I made the pillar from

I have also polished the rails, ground and polished the feed lips (feeds perfectly), checked the lugs for contact
and now sent it all off to have the barrel chambered and fitted
I will post more as it happens

[bigrich]

hey marksman did you make that pillar out of a tyre inflater ?

[marksman]

hey marksman did you make that pillar out of a tyre inflater ?

yep the tubing

[Daddybang]

hey marksman did you make that pillar out of a tyre inflater ?

yep the tubing

Damn close to genius

[Gamerancher]

Pretty sure the holes at the bottom of the bolt are there to vent any gases from a blown primer / ruptured case down through the magazine rather than back into the shooters eye.

[marksman]

Very nice looking gun. The wood has some nice lines and a good looking grain. You obviously have to put a new barrel on it for it to be a 22 yes? or does it get sleeved somehow.

yes a different 1 in 8 twist 22 cal stainless match palma barrel that I got before buying this rifle for the 22 dasher project but for another rifle as doner,
some things are meant to be, it has a lithgow made black mountain 308 palma barrel now
so apart from rebarreling, a few tweaks and renovating it will be as made, it's taken me quite a while to save and buy the bits for it to happen
this rifle was originally a custom build, the action, bolt and stock all have the same marking's from when it was made by the builder
I'm pretty stoked

[marksman]

Pretty sure the holes at the bottom of the bolt are there to vent any gases from a blown primer / ruptured case down through the magazine rather than back into the shooters eye.

you are right Gamerancher they are vent holes
my other dasher was having problems with primers cookie cutting when I was fireforming from br cases
I did not have any blowback at my face at all, the mauser action vented the gas down the mag well and not at me
I have had pieced primer's and blown primers from other big brand name makes of rifle that would have blinded me if I did not have glasses on when it happened

[Gamerancher]

Yeah, Mr P Mauser did have some idea on how to design a bolt-action.

[marksman]

guess what
it is here




now for bedding, a bit of blueing and case forming

[Daddybang]

guess what
it is here




now for bedding, a bit of blueing and case forming

Very nice!!! santa was on the ball!!

[Wm.Traynor]

Merry Christmas

[Apollo]

Pretty sure the holes at the bottom of the bolt are there to vent any gases from a blown primer / ruptured case down through the magazine rather than back into the shooters eye.

you are right Gamerancher they are vent holes
my other dasher was having problems with primers cookie cutting when I was fireforming from br cases
I did not have any blowback at my face at all, the mauser action vented the gas down the mag well and not at me
I have had pieced primer's and blown primers from other big brand name makes of rifle that would have blinded me if I did not have glasses on when it happened

I hope you realise that Pierced / Blanked / Cookie Cut Primers is a fault that can be easily rectified and should not happen at all if everything is up to specifics. Typical of in the first place using soft primers in a high pressure case design. Typical of using Federal Primers which are the softest and thinnest cup design. The other is too much headspace and / or too much firing pin clearance around the bolt face.

Just a mention as I have had a couple of pierced primers and that is two too many so rectified the problem straight up then never another ever happened. Typically it happened with a 6mmBR / Dasher / 6.5x47 Case and worse I have heard from an AI version. Savage Rifle Bolts are the worst offenders I know of with way too much clearance around the firing pin.

Plenty of 6mm Dashers used in 500 Metre Fly but never heard of a Primer problem in any of the custom rifles.

[marksman]

your are right about the primers, the problem after examination was the thickness of the primer cup that was supposed to be 25 thou but was 20 thou
I was using rem 7.5 small rifle that are supposed to be the 25 thou, maybe a mix up as the 6.5's small rifle are supposed to be 20 thou cup thickness
anyway the problem is fixed as I changed to cci br and 450 small primers,
blanked / cookie cut primers only happen with small rifle primers for those who dont know

and yes santa is on the ball , I wont be shooting it for xmas as I am fireforming with shotgun powder and wax first, I will be after though
it gives me time to bed and blue touch ups

you would not believe how many visitors I have had today

[sungazer]

I haven't had that problem yet with small primers but am using them in a few calibres. I use the BR4 if that makes any difference. I would be interested to see any pics of the problem ones and what you think caused the issue. As you know my only issue so far with primers not going off due to a sensitive headspace, perhaps low protrusion firing pin and certainly a lot less energy in the firing pin. The low energy is good for target the rifle doesn't move when firing as compared to the hard hitting Rem 700 which you can clearly see a movement when dryfiring no matter how stable the rifle. But the primers go off.
I must stress so do the others if you use once fired or more cases that fit the chamber.

[Apollo]

CCI BR4 & 450 are one of the one's that have the thickest primer cups. The common belief is that both are the same but the BR4 is the select batch version and more consistent with each one in the batch made.

Most times when you see a Pierced Primer there is a large creator ring around the firing pin indentation.

Another calibre that is likely to have problems is the .204 Ruger and warnings of not using Federal 200 Primers as their cup thickness is just 0.019".

CCI BR4, 450 and Remington 7 1/2 (BR) are the thickest at 0.025" cup thickness.

Most all Large Rifle Primers are the same cup thickness of 0.027". Other dimensions like diameter and height do vary between brands.

One source of information....been around for a long, long time.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

[bigfellascott]

So hows it shoot, getting the results you expected from it?

[marksman]

Apollo is exactly right in what he has said about the primers, I had trouble because the rem 7.5"s I was using in a 6mm dasher were not the 25 thou they are supposed to be, as I said earlier I think there was a mix up at the factory,
I did have a look at other things that can cause this problem eg:I had put a speed lock kit in the bolt and thought maybe the firing pin spring was not suited,
I tried the cci br4's and 450's and have not had a problem since, and that is why I dissected some rem 7.5 primers to see if they were what they were supposed to be, I also knew as I was fireforming I was not at high pressure

here is a photo I kept of primers that blanked/cookie cut

there are different brands in the photo that show the hole differently, you can see the one with a perfectly punched hole which is why it is called a cookie cutter
that primer is shows a bit of flattening because it is a thinner cup that I tried at the time, the others still have radius showing good headspace fireforming wasn't an overload

today I went and fireformed for this 22 dasher, some might think it is a boring mongrel of a job but I just think it's another part of it
in this photo is a 6mm br case ready to have the false shoulder made and fireformed and one of the 22 dasher cases I formed today using shotgun powder and soap as a plug, honestly it will all be worth it in the end


so no scott I still haven't actually shot it
I am still waiting for a scope I have bought for it and some rings and a picatinni rail
I also still have to bed the action and touch up the blueing where I have shaped the tang to suit the stock

oh well soon be christmass

[sungazer]

I have only fire formed cases that are just new for the chamber and dont really need much adjustment so normal loads type of thing. What is the shotgun powder, how is it different? and the wax or soap plugs give enough resistance that the case shapes to the chamber? obviously

Ill bet your glad the rifles safety features worked and you didnt have a bolt fly back in your face or part there of.

[Apollo]

All those primers in the photo seem to be Remington or is there another brand that has copper coated looking primes. Certainly not CCI's.

Boy, I hate fire forming cases to a strange custom size. What a waste of barrel life. Luck has it the only one I am really doing is 220 Russian to 6mm PPC which I have a specific old worn barrel that was given to me to use. A few dollars to my Gunsmith to make it the same as my Match Barrel.

The only knowledge of a Dasher I have is the mates that shoot 500 Fly and the best trick there is to get someone to Hydro Size and just go shoot competition.

In 6mm at 500 Metres there is BR and Dasher, who wins or is better is a toss up of skills as each seem to win as many shoots. I'm doing a 6mmBR to see how it rates compared to my 6.5x47L with my old skills which are going down hill fast... Old age stinks.

I can see that the rifle is not a Benchrest so sorry if I'm off track with the degree of accuracy required.

I hope your Bolt Face hasn't suffered any damage from pitting. Don't worry about coping gas in the face and no for others the bolt will not come flying back but the biggest worry is the damage to the bolt face.

[marksman]

Apollo none of these primers were cci

depending on your point of view fireforming is either a time consuming, tedious process or an interesting exersize, needless to say the latter applies to me
the plus with bullet-less fireforming is the cost saving - no special hydro-forming dies, no bullets, less powder and more importantly "no wear on your barrel"
its a lot less work and a lot less messy than hydro-forming I think, IMO you get a much better shoulder to start with as well
the new norma dasher cases would be cheaper and easier too but I had my reamer body made to blue box dimensions so I'm not sure if it would work
obviously you don't let your barrel heat up and I cleaned out the fowling every 10 shot's, you should try it, it does work well
the smell of the soap plug all around the farmers paddock was like walking past a chinese knock shop
not that I would know

when a primer blanks you don't have the same effect that you do when a primer leaks, it is the firing pin hole and firing pin that cop the flame
as you can see my 6mm dasher bolt face is perfect just like it left the gunsmith's after he machined it to perfection and no gases at my face


this rifle with a second hand 8x32 nightforce br scope will cost all up, everything $2500, I cannot tell you how accurate it is going to be
I know it will not be as accurate as James Philips record set at 1.174" at 600 yards with a 22 dasher, the best ever verified group ever shot at 600 yards in registered benchrest shooting http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek030.html and that is on a rem action
what I expect from this rifle is to be able to head shoot rabbits at 250-300 and I will be very happy with it and call it a success
really I could have gone and bought a tikka/sako varmint to do the same but I like building these rifles, its a fetish my wife calls my mistress

I forgot to add Apollo that when I found the right amount of powder there was no blow back on the case length,
all fireformed cases needed trimming to the exact length and the primer pockets are as tight as new

[marksman]

I have only fire formed cases that are just new for the chamber and dont really need much adjustment so normal loads type of thing. What is the shotgun powder, how is it different? and the wax or soap plugs give enough resistance that the case shapes to the chamber? obviously

Ill bet your glad the rifles safety features worked and you didnt have a bolt fly back in your face or part there of.

there is no resistance from wax/soap at all sungazer the soap plug is only to hold the powder in the case
and to make the farmers paddock smell like a chinese knock shop
I made a false shoulder on the neck 6mm br case to 22 cal, but the false shoulder has to be what the case is headspaced off or it wont work
when making the false shoulder you have to take out your firing pin and have a definite crush fit when closing the bolt
you have basically done the same with your problem by jamming the projectile stopping the case movement
if I did not make the false shoulder with a crush fit the case would just be pushed forward without firing or if it did fire could be very dangerous
even without a bullet
the fireforming I am talking about is to change the shape of the original case into a completely different usually wildcat one
fireforming to your chamber is to fit the case to your chamber
the shotgun powder use is because it burns a lot faster, you cannot use this powder with a bullet
here is a photo of the process while building up to the right amount of powder to the finished loaded 22 dasher round
the second case is the false shoulder that the case is headspaced on

[sungazer]

Thanks for that, bits of the information I knew but you have filled in the gaps with the whole process. I should be able to tell if it really does smell like a Chinese knock shop too having to have gone to several in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and China all for being polite as a guest on business just karaoke nothing naughty.

I did neck down a 308 Palma brass to fit the 243 just for s**ts a giggles works a treat but too hard to justify any saving or improvement in performance.

[marksman]

still waiting for the scope, rings and picatinni rail so I thought I'd bed the rifle while I'm waiting
I love that smell of real walnut when you are grinding it out

with mausers I like to bed the tang and the recoil lug area separately
there is no benefit to doing a full bedding job on a mauser

I already pillared the tang but I like to bed it as well

I usually only use devcon to bed rifles but don't have any at the time so I used JB weld
I have used it on other peoples rifles before with great success but its a bit sloppy to use
so I let it go off a bit before putting it in
I still have to finish cleaning it up but there is no movement when testing, a perfect fit
cant wait for the rest of the gear to turn up but getting there

[marksman]

getting closer
I fitted a highscore single shot follower

an EWG picatinny rail

fitted and lapped the new leupold rings

no stress
still waiting for the scope but getting closer

[marksman]

bloody scope is lost/missing in transit

what a let down

[sungazer]

s**t mate that stinks. I am watching your build and waiting and looking for each update. Really interested in how it will shoot. I really expect pretty well.
I have to say though that I am not keen on the 22 cal to a point of hating it when it comes time to clean it. The bloody rods have to be so small they flex font have strength to push very hard. The patches have to be so critical in size to get good contact not stuck but not loose. They give me the s**ts.