Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Improving and repairing firearms. Rifle bedding, barrel work, stock replacement and other ways to improve your firearms.

Re: stoked

Post by Apollo » 21 Dec 2017, 5:30 pm

CCI BR4 & 450 are one of the one's that have the thickest primer cups. The common belief is that both are the same but the BR4 is the select batch version and more consistent with each one in the batch made.

Most times when you see a Pierced Primer there is a large creator ring around the firing pin indentation.

Another calibre that is likely to have problems is the .204 Ruger and warnings of not using Federal 200 Primers as their cup thickness is just 0.019".

CCI BR4, 450 and Remington 7 1/2 (BR) are the thickest at 0.025" cup thickness.

Most all Large Rifle Primers are the same cup thickness of 0.027". Other dimensions like diameter and height do vary between brands.

One source of information....been around for a long, long time.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
Apollo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1327
New South Wales

Re: stoked

Post by bigfellascott » 21 Dec 2017, 9:50 pm

So hows it shoot, getting the results you expected from it?
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: stoked

Post by marksman » 22 Dec 2017, 6:03 pm

Apollo is exactly right in what he has said about the primers, I had trouble because the rem 7.5"s I was using in a 6mm dasher were not the 25 thou they are supposed to be, as I said earlier I think there was a mix up at the factory,
I did have a look at other things that can cause this problem eg:I had put a speed lock kit in the bolt and thought maybe the firing pin spring was not suited,
I tried the cci br4's and 450's and have not had a problem since, and that is why I dissected some rem 7.5 primers to see if they were what they were supposed to be, I also knew as I was fireforming I was not at high pressure

here is a photo I kept of primers that blanked/cookie cut
Image
there are different brands in the photo that show the hole differently, you can see the one with a perfectly punched hole which is why it is called a cookie cutter
that primer is shows a bit of flattening because it is a thinner cup that I tried at the time, the others still have radius showing good headspace fireforming wasn't an overload

today I went and fireformed for this 22 dasher, some might think it is a boring mongrel of a job but I just think it's another part of it
in this photo is a 6mm br case ready to have the false shoulder made and fireformed and one of the 22 dasher cases I formed today using shotgun powder and soap as a plug, honestly it will all be worth it in the end :drinks:
Image

so no scott I still haven't actually shot it :cry:
I am still waiting for a scope I have bought for it and some rings and a picatinni rail
I also still have to bed the action and touch up the blueing where I have shaped the tang to suit the stock

oh well soon be christmass :clap:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: stoked

Post by sungazer » 22 Dec 2017, 7:02 pm

I have only fire formed cases that are just new for the chamber and dont really need much adjustment so normal loads type of thing. What is the shotgun powder, how is it different? and the wax or soap plugs give enough resistance that the case shapes to the chamber? obviously

Ill bet your glad the rifles safety features worked and you didnt have a bolt fly back in your face or part there of.
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: stoked

Post by Apollo » 22 Dec 2017, 10:49 pm

All those primers in the photo seem to be Remington or is there another brand that has copper coated looking primes. Certainly not CCI's.

Boy, I hate fire forming cases to a strange custom size. What a waste of barrel life. Luck has it the only one I am really doing is 220 Russian to 6mm PPC which I have a specific old worn barrel that was given to me to use. A few dollars to my Gunsmith to make it the same as my Match Barrel.

The only knowledge of a Dasher I have is the mates that shoot 500 Fly and the best trick there is to get someone to Hydro Size and just go shoot competition.

In 6mm at 500 Metres there is BR and Dasher, who wins or is better is a toss up of skills as each seem to win as many shoots. I'm doing a 6mmBR to see how it rates compared to my 6.5x47L with my old skills which are going down hill fast... Old age stinks.

I can see that the rifle is not a Benchrest so sorry if I'm off track with the degree of accuracy required.

I hope your Bolt Face hasn't suffered any damage from pitting. Don't worry about coping gas in the face and no for others the bolt will not come flying back but the biggest worry is the damage to the bolt face.
Apollo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1327
New South Wales

Re: stoked

Post by marksman » 24 Dec 2017, 12:19 pm

Apollo none of these primers were cci :thumbsup:

depending on your point of view fireforming is either a time consuming, tedious process or an interesting exersize, needless to say the latter applies to me
the plus with bullet-less fireforming is the cost saving - no special hydro-forming dies, no bullets, less powder and more importantly "no wear on your barrel"
its a lot less work and a lot less messy than hydro-forming I think, IMO you get a much better shoulder to start with as well
the new norma dasher cases would be cheaper and easier too but I had my reamer body made to blue box dimensions so I'm not sure if it would work
obviously you don't let your barrel heat up and I cleaned out the fowling every 10 shot's, you should try it, it does work well :thumbsup:
the smell of the soap plug all around the farmers paddock was like walking past a chinese knock shop :drinks:
not that I would know :allegedly: :lol: :lol:

when a primer blanks you don't have the same effect that you do when a primer leaks, it is the firing pin hole and firing pin that cop the flame
as you can see my 6mm dasher bolt face is perfect just like it left the gunsmith's after he machined it to perfection and no gases at my face
Image

this rifle with a second hand 8x32 nightforce br scope will cost all up, everything $2500, I cannot tell you how accurate it is going to be
I know it will not be as accurate as James Philips record set at 1.174" at 600 yards with a 22 dasher, the best ever verified group ever shot at 600 yards in registered benchrest shooting http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek030.html and that is on a rem action
what I expect from this rifle is to be able to head shoot rabbits at 250-300 and I will be very happy with it and call it a success :drinks:
really I could have gone and bought a tikka/sako varmint to do the same but I like building these rifles, its a fetish my wife calls my mistress :unknown:

I forgot to add Apollo that when I found the right amount of powder there was no blow back on the case length,
all fireformed cases needed trimming to the exact length and the primer pockets are as tight as new :drinks:
Last edited by marksman on 24 Dec 2017, 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: stoked

Post by marksman » 24 Dec 2017, 12:37 pm

sungazer wrote:I have only fire formed cases that are just new for the chamber and dont really need much adjustment so normal loads type of thing. What is the shotgun powder, how is it different? and the wax or soap plugs give enough resistance that the case shapes to the chamber? obviously

Ill bet your glad the rifles safety features worked and you didnt have a bolt fly back in your face or part there of.


there is no resistance from wax/soap at all sungazer the soap plug is only to hold the powder in the case :thumbsup:
and to make the farmers paddock smell like a chinese knock shop :drinks:
I made a false shoulder on the neck 6mm br case to 22 cal, but the false shoulder has to be what the case is headspaced off or it wont work
when making the false shoulder you have to take out your firing pin and have a definite crush fit when closing the bolt
you have basically done the same with your problem by jamming the projectile stopping the case movement
if I did not make the false shoulder with a crush fit the case would just be pushed forward without firing or if it did fire could be very dangerous
even without a bullet :thumbsdown:
the fireforming I am talking about is to change the shape of the original case into a completely different usually wildcat one
fireforming to your chamber is to fit the case to your chamber
the shotgun powder use is because it burns a lot faster, you cannot use this powder with a bullet :thumbsdown:
here is a photo of the process while building up to the right amount of powder to the finished loaded 22 dasher round
the second case is the false shoulder that the case is headspaced on :thumbsup:
Image
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: stoked

Post by sungazer » 24 Dec 2017, 5:15 pm

Thanks for that, bits of the information I knew but you have filled in the gaps with the whole process. I should be able to tell if it really does smell like a Chinese knock shop too having to have gone to several in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and China all for being polite as a guest on business just karaoke nothing naughty. :allegedly:

I did neck down a 308 Palma brass to fit the 243 just for s**ts a giggles works a treat but too hard to justify any saving or improvement in performance.
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 30 Dec 2017, 10:30 am

still waiting for the scope, rings and picatinni rail so I thought I'd bed the rifle while I'm waiting
I love that smell of real walnut when you are grinding it out
Image
with mausers I like to bed the tang and the recoil lug area separately
there is no benefit to doing a full bedding job on a mauser
Image
I already pillared the tang but I like to bed it as well
Image
I usually only use devcon to bed rifles but don't have any at the time so I used JB weld
I have used it on other peoples rifles before with great success but its a bit sloppy to use
so I let it go off a bit before putting it in
I still have to finish cleaning it up but there is no movement when testing, a perfect fit
cant wait for the rest of the gear to turn up but getting there :thumbsup:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 03 Jan 2018, 9:02 pm

getting closer
I fitted a highscore single shot follower
Image
an EWG picatinny rail
Image
fitted and lapped the new leupold rings
Image
no stress
still waiting for the scope but getting closer :drinks:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 06 Jan 2018, 11:16 am

bloody scope is lost/missing in transit :thumbsdown:

what a let down :wtf:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by sungazer » 06 Jan 2018, 11:23 am

s**t mate that stinks. I am watching your build and waiting and looking for each update. Really interested in how it will shoot. I really expect pretty well.
I have to say though that I am not keen on the 22 cal to a point of hating it when it comes time to clean it. The bloody rods have to be so small they flex font have strength to push very hard. The patches have to be so critical in size to get good contact not stuck but not loose. They give me the s**ts.
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 25 Jan 2018, 12:58 pm

so my scope is still lost by Australia post :unknown:
now twice believe it or not :unknown: :lol: :lol:
on the day that the insurance was to be claimed they recon they found it and started to send it back to the sender although it was found in the town 10 klm's from me :unknown: then its gone missing again :thumbsdown: I don't know whether I believe them :shock:

anyway I got sick of the waiting and put a scope off another rifle on so I could fire my first angry shot
I have no data at all to reload this case so I was just experimenting and hoping not to blow the rifle up trying to find where the pressures started
I sighted in with a max 22br load and went 5% over the max with no casehead expansion at all so I know I can go further
while doing this pressure test I also did a ladder test and think I have a node that can be explored further with an OCW test
I am doing the tests at the moment with speer 55gr sp as this is a rabbit/fox rifle expected to accurately shoot out to 300
although I do have some 80gr bergers I will do a load with to have a play at 700 with
here's a photo that shows oal at touch new chamber

Image

and heres one of the rifle setup on my new Oldblokes bench, thanks Olbloke :drinks:

Image

I probably should say as well there was no running in, after sighting in with 4 shots I cleaned the bore and shot 16 more shots
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by sungazer » 25 Jan 2018, 2:46 pm

Good to see you giving a go. That Aus post is just a debacle. I did read an article somewhere were a barrel manufacturer claims a customer ruined a barrel fire forming just using primers or something. I will have to have a google and look for that.

As for groups have a look at this. http://shooting.hexsystems.com.au/shooting/148511 This was shot target rifle which is hand held prone. He is an excellent shooter as you can see by the result and deservingly so he is on the Australian Team that starts shooting in New Zealand this week, they arrived NZ today. He wind coached me yesterday. :) :drinks:
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by Stix » 25 Jan 2018, 6:30 pm

Im excited for you marksman...

It is however a worry to see the estwing hanging on the triton though...its obviously not for scope adjustments... :lol:
They are good persuader's for sure, but i prefer the rubber handle.

Keen to see some results...
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 28 Jan 2018, 7:47 pm

sungazer wrote:Good to see you giving a go. That Aus post is just a debacle. I did read an article somewhere were a barrel manufacturer claims a customer ruined a barrel fire forming just using primers or something. I will have to have a google and look for that.

As for groups have a look at this. http://shooting.hexsystems.com.au/shooting/148511 This was shot target rifle which is hand held prone. He is an excellent shooter as you can see by the result and deservingly so he is on the Australian Team that starts shooting in New Zealand this week, they arrived NZ today. He wind coached me yesterday. :) :drinks:


sungazer yes the Australia post is a very sad thing I hope to talk them into handing over the insurance money tomorrow :wtf:
it's only been 35 days since it was sent, 30 days since it was lost the first time and 11 days since it went missing this time :o :thumbsdown:
but moving on I would be very interested in seeing the article you spoke about fireforming from the barrel maker :thumbsup:
you are very lucky to have the opportunity to have someone with this experience to wind coach you, David Blacks target shows he is a champion
that is where you see the truth, is the target :drinks: and you can learn a sh@t ton from the experienced :drinks:

I'm really exited about this rifle myself Stix and the triton and estwing are for bad rifle's that don't do as there told :lol: :lol: :lol:
I do have a blue rubber handle estwing as well just in case :drinks: the Americans make a good persuader :thumbsup:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by Stix » 28 Jan 2018, 7:57 pm

:lol:
Yes that they do... :clap:

Maybe ill try that saw & hammer intimidation trick next time...
Usually i just threaten to hurl them out in the paddock, but they've learned to call my bluff... :lol:

On a serious note, that aust post story is abhorrent...ive had, & know of people who have had similar...in fact i had a verbal blurt on a recent post about them...

I hope you get sense out of them mate...it is really beyond all common sense our leaders allow this rubbish to go on...
Aust Post has gone from one of the best enterprises in the country to one of the worst in my book.
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 26 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

this rifle has sort of gone off the boil a bit for me after Australia post lost my scope twice and they gave me hell on earth trying to get the insurance out of them
I ended up having to go to the postal ombudsman to get past there call centre who called me and the seller a fraud
anyway the postal ombudsman got past the call centre and Australia post have sincerely apologised to me and have accepted they lost my scope that was insured by them and they have sent me a money order that I haven't received as of yet LOL

moving on
I did a ladder test while testing pressure and came up with what I thought would be a good area to further test
firstly I now had fire-formed cases so I checked the average volume,
this may or may not be of interest but i thought I would share the results for those who weigh there cases
I weigh the empty case then weigh them filled with water, the water weight is the volume
empty case with water water weight
125.1gr 166gr =40.9gr
125gr 166gr =41gr
125.3gr 166.4gr =41.1gr
125.6gr 166.7gr =41.1gr
127gr 167.8gr =40.8gr
=204.9gr
divided by 5 =40.98gr average weight of volume

as you can see although the empty cases are different in weight the volume is very similar, makes you think about how you check volume

so with the info I had I sorted out an OCW test and the results at 120 are

Image

this gives me more information now and I will be trying to squeeze a bit more out of this rifle ;)
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by sungazer » 26 Feb 2018, 5:13 pm

Are thy all at the same length? I have done a few ladder tests and Im not so convinced of there validity. I know there are some very knowledgeable people that swear by them. I just have not had the same results. I have had groups size change by seating depth. Rifle (stock) design rest bipod, rear bag, rifle hold, calibre and technique all have more to do with the shooting than the powder until I prove otherwise. I am not giving up learning and listening to people though.
What do you mean re your volume remarks?
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by Stix » 26 Feb 2018, 5:22 pm

Australia post...once the pride of this country...now one of its embarrassments...
Ive great empathy for you marksman, its a joke in this day & age that we have to use the ombudsman for even basic matters...
Hope you get your cash & scope soon.

As for the weight/volume test on brass...
Well i never--im almost a (reluctant) convert...such a smaller difference in volume compared to weight...!

So a couple of silly questions...
1) obviously spent primer is left in for volume test...?
2) do you bother to clean the carbon from inside cases at all before the volume test...?
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by Stix » 26 Feb 2018, 5:27 pm

So marksman, getting into the stastical data of the volume of those cases, thats an ES of .3gr, & an SD of .1gr.
(Dont ask me why i worked that out).
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 26 Feb 2018, 6:50 pm

sungazer wrote:Are thy all at the same length? I have done a few ladder tests and Im not so convinced of there validity. I know there are some very knowledgeable people that swear by them. I just have not had the same results. I have had groups size change by seating depth. Rifle (stock) design rest bipod, rear bag, rifle hold, calibre and technique all have more to do with the shooting than the powder until I prove otherwise. I am not giving up learning and listening to people though.
What do you mean re your volume remarks?


the main thing with a ladder test is you and your rifle have to be able to do your part or your results wont be reliable
I think you are pretty knowledgeable to understand what will change your group sizes
what I have learnt by weighing the empty cases and then filling them with water and weighing how much water is held is to get the case internal volume
that showed that although the case weights were not the same the internal volume was fairly good compared to the other cases
the internal volume is fairly consistent although the case weights are not

the OCW test I did was a volume test, the test loads were all the same length, just the amount of powder changed
next I will test OAL and neck tension to look for a better result, or scrap the projectile and go for a much better one
this test was done with a 20 thou jam
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by sungazer » 26 Feb 2018, 6:57 pm

Thanks for your explanation. I have only done the volume test once and I would have to go looking for the results or more so the hard data.
In our club there are a few guys that have new barrels and with the season approaching there is quite a bit of load development going on. Trying to get loads that have SD of 4 looking at all the sources of error in the measuring equipment and in your load. Quite a few thinkers at the club so it is interesting to be part of it.
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 26 Feb 2018, 6:57 pm

Stix wrote:Australia post...once the pride of this country...now one of its embarrassments...
Ive great empathy for you marksman, its a joke in this day & age that we have to use the ombudsman for even basic matters...
Hope you get your cash & scope soon.

As for the weight/volume test on brass...
Well i never--im almost a (reluctant) convert...such a smaller difference in volume compared to weight...!

So a couple of silly questions...
1) obviously spent primer is left in for volume test...?
2) do you bother to clean the carbon from inside cases at all before the volume test...?


getting the volume is way way better than case weight, that one I learnt from reading Nick Harvey's reloading column a long time ago :thumbsup:
yes leave in the spent primer
I don't clean out the carbon as the cases are once fired and just fireformed
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 06 Mar 2018, 7:20 pm

I have completed an over all length test from using one of the group loads off the OCW test and the results are
shot at 120 yards

Image

I'm not 100% happy with this load and am going to try a different powder and better projectile
the #1 is 20 thou off #2 is 10 thou off #3 is just touching and #4 is 20 thou jam
the #3 is screaming at an average of 2900 fps but the es is around 30,
I really don't like to have the projectile just touching as you will be always chasing the lands, I like to either jump or jam
checking concentricity of the loaded rounds the smith did a great job making up the dies for me from my reamer
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by Wm.Traynor » 06 Mar 2018, 7:27 pm

Numbers 2 and 3 both have excellent elevation :D :thumbsup:

But won't you always be "chasing the lands" if you are using overall length as one of the parameters? Asking out of Ignorance to be brutally honest. I have never had to employ these measures to find an accurate load.
Wm.Traynor
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1644
Queensland

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 06 Mar 2018, 7:43 pm

when you just touch the lands it only takes a touch to be off the lands especially if your projectile ogive is a bit inconsistent in form
the difference in pressure from touch is around 7200 psi higher than when not touching,
so the chase game is on if you are just touching trying to keep the projectile just touching
the reason why a jump or jam is better IMO, trying to eliminate flyers and inconsistency
I'm not sure if I have explained that properly, I hope i have :drinks:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by Wm.Traynor » 06 Mar 2018, 8:19 pm

Are you using Extra Low Drag pills, Marksman? I understand why you would jam the cartridge in the post above thanks mate :)
Wm.Traynor
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1644
Queensland

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by marksman » 06 Mar 2018, 8:28 pm

no they are not extra low drag pills
the rifle is for shooting rabbits and foxes so I have used garden variety speer 55gr flat base sp because about 10 years ago I bought a 1000 of them and they did not work in the 22 cal centerfire rifles I have so was hoping to get a really good result with them :lol:
I suppose for what they are they are doing ok :thumbsup:
and will kill a rabbit I recon :allegedly: if I can hit one with them :lol:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Stoked with .22 Dasher build

Post by Stix » 06 Mar 2018, 9:07 pm

What makes you want to change both powder AND projectile...?

One ir two BR shooters have told me to NOT worry about getting accurate load data until a min of 100 rounds down a barrel...
What is your opinion of this theory ...?
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Gunsmithing