Electronic Speed Controllers, HELP ?

[Die Judicii]

Are there any members here that work with electronic speed controllers, potentiometers, and joysticks either employment wise or as a hobby ?
Definitely not my cup of tea,, but i need help to know what parts i need to purchase for a modification on my shooting rig.

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[Wapiti]

Dead set mate, you do pretty well with what you already have done... I can't help except make useless suggestions but have to say there's no denying your inventiveness and effectiveness in what you do.

[perentie]

I am not sure what you want but if its a forward reverse control for the turntable, perhaps the remote and switching solenoid from a cheap ebay 4x4 winch would work/

[Die Judicii]

I am not sure what you want but if its a forward reverse control for the turntable, perhaps the remote and switching solenoid from a cheap ebay 4x4 winch would work/

Hi Mate, You almost guessed it in one,, but not quite.
I had already thought of that a long time ago when I first built it.
Except, I need to be able to vary the speed of rotation and the winch control doesnt allow for that, they're either go or no go.

The controller that's in it now has almost died because of voltage spikes due to the fact that the driving motor is a 24v wheelchair motor that is powered by only 12volt.
Even though it had (supposedly) electronic protection against the spikes, built into it.
I paid dearly for an electronics place to do so,,, but I think they f@cked up, and so far I've replaced it twice.

I've now got onto a different mob that make controllers (4x the price) the likes of which are used in robotics.
They are only 1/4 the size physically, and already have inbuilt protection for all manner of issues.

But,,,,,,,,,,, the catch is,, they are talking the electronics language that I don't understand, and also seem to be telling me I need two separate controllers to do the simple task of being able to drive the platform in the two different directions.

Surely not ???

The company doesnt understand what I've built nor its purpose,,, and I don't understand electronics.
So in essence,, what I need is "an interpreter"

[Damo300]

What about one of those model train set controllers. Not sure if they're still like they were in the 80s but they go forward and back with variable speed control.

Otherwise, slot car controller, but that only goes one way.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Looks cool, and fun.

[perentie]

Do they make electronic speed controls for vehicles?
Or a ride on mower I was working on had a variable drive working from two 45 degree friction drive things. All mechanical. I think it was a Cox..The further you pushed the go pedal it changed the ratio of the friction drive.Less to go wrong but more work to make.

[Die Judicii]

Thanks Perentie, The Cox mowers had those expanding Vee belt pulleys. As one opened the other one closed, thus changing the ratio. Vee belts are not the answer tho cos that leaves the whole platform free to rock back and forth. The turntable in the pic is operated by a worm drive that is built into it, and is rock steady. Its actually an excavator slew ring.

[Die Judicii]

Thanks Damo,, the model train thought is interesting, and i’ll ask some question about them come next week. Although I’m definitely not into the workings of electronics, i would be surprised if one of those would do the job because the drive motor on my rig can reach up to 60 amps.

[perentie]

Ok. Understood.
Years ago I had a 240 volt welder . It had a knob on the front to vary the amps going to the rod.. I wonder if would control your voltage and act as a speed control. It was heavy duty.

[perentie]

I googled "heavy duty 12 volt speed controllers and several came up. I guess you did the same.
Such as this.
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DCh ... EAs&adurl=

or this.
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DCh ... EBQ&adurl=

[JDM9691]

A few questions first -
What component 'dies' and needs to be replaced?
Is the controller wireless, or do you have wires running from the top down that you need to be careful you don't twist?
Does the power for your lights come up the same way? What's the up/down arrow switch for on the right?
Does it operate acceptably when it's running correctly?
Do you need the speed control up top, or would a 'set and forget' dial by the motor do the job?
Are there solenoids/relays down the bottom by the motor?

I've found some remote controllers that might work on ebay, but they won't do 60 amps. Your motor might be capable of 60A, but it should use a lot less than that running your setup.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/336197518315
It looks like a well built setup that should be able to be perfected without a lot of expense

[Fester]

So impressed, but sad about the failing bit.
I have no idea about electronics and the turntable machines I have worked on were all troublesome in some way.

I heard that the speed controllers in the mini-lathes are a fail-point; they just die, Chinese components, but most stuff will be from there.

[Die Judicii]

So impressed, but sad about the failing bit.
I have no idea about electronics and the turntable machines I have worked on were all troublesome in some way.

I heard that the speed controllers in the mini-lathes are a fail-point; they just die, Chinese components, but most stuff will be from there.

Thanks for your thoughts and input Fester.

[Die Judicii]

A few questions first -
What component 'dies' and needs to be replaced?
Is the controller wireless, or do you have wires running from the top down that you need to be careful you don't twist?
Does the power for your lights come up the same way? What's the up/down arrow switch for on the right?
Does it operate acceptably when it's running correctly?
Do you need the speed control up top, or would a 'set and forget' dial by the motor do the job?
Are there solenoids/relays down the bottom by the motor?

I've found some remote controllers that might work on ebay, but they won't do 60 amps. Your motor might be capable of 60A, but it should use a lot less than that running your setup.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/336197518315
It looks like a well built setup that should be able to be perfected without a lot of expense

Thank you for your reply

OK, here goes,,,,,,,,
1)
I believe I would be correct in saying the potentiometer. From new it's possible to turn the speed knob to any given position, and then hit the go switch in (either direction) and everything works at whatever speed its sitting on.
But as I get further down the track (time/age) it starts to develop spots where it won't respond,,, and they seem to get more so the older it gets.

2)
No, it's not wireless.
It has cables that run down to the motor through the centre support under the bench.
Where the cable/s run through that, I wound them onto a piece of 1/2" water pipe in the lathe so as to create a spiral flex that can stretch and retract.
So they can move safely.

3)
Yes, the power for the lights (a small shielded bank of red LED lights to aid filling magazines etc) also comes up the same pathway via separate cable.

4)
The up down arrow on the right is for a separate 12v motor that raises or lowers the bench itself.
Hence the reason for making the cables ability to stretch and retract.

5)
Yes it operates flawlessly when everything else is working.

6)
No, I can't "set and forget" the rotation speed.
It needs to be more or less infinitely variable,,,,, and operated by one thumb while tracking whatever the target may be.
ie: long range scenario needs to be slow, as opposed to close up,, it needs to be faster.

7)
There aren't any solenoids or relays down bottom.
The only addition (close onto the motor) is the "snubber" which obviously isn't doing its job,,, otherwise I wouldnt be in this mess.
The current speed controller is mounted in the black box behind the facia.

I have thought it would be good (two hands free) to have a foot control for the direction and speed of the platform,,, but in reality it would create further problems in the darkness.

Cheers,

[Die Judicii]

PERENTIE,,

Hey Mate, that second link certainly looks promising.
I'm gonna message the seller and ask if it supports the reversing of direction.
If so, it may be a short term solution, and cheaper.

The current controller unit cost me $89 and the other one that I've been contemplating prior to posting this thread is priced close to $300 on its own, and as I said above,,,, they seem to be saying I would need two of them,,,,,, plus a joystick controller.

They say their controller/s could be operated by a 3 way toggle switch the way my setup is,,,, but make it sound very difficult to do so.

Cheers,

[Fester]

It sucks, but there must be an ideal speed controller used for something, just how to find it, and the cost.

The mechanical design should be strong and foolproof.
Better than the crap things that I had to fix, nylon drive wheels that wore down turning heavy loads, expanding belt things that also buggered up when the operators fiddled with them to stop work for a bit on Friday mornings. I removed the adjuster handle, but they would have found some vise grips, going by the markings.

[Die Judicii]

Better than the crap things that I had to fix, nylon drive wheels that wore down turning heavy loads, expanding belt things that also buggered up.

Years ago i had an XA Falcon Fairmont with the electric windows. The one that cops most useage dies first. ie: the drivers window. They were all metal gears, except the intermediate one,,, which was white nylon. Circular with a concave middle section, and placed in that were three nylon blocks that created a “dog drive”. Those little blocks become brittle and just snap off. I made 3 out of brass and fixed them in place with PK screws. Put it back together and it was still working perfectly years later when i sold it.

[JDM9691]

1)
I believe I would be correct in saying the potentiometer. From new it's possible to turn the speed knob to any given position, and then hit the go switch in (either direction) and everything works at whatever speed its sitting on.
But as I get further down the track (time/age) it starts to develop spots where it won't respond,,, and they seem to get more so the older it gets.

snip

I have thought it would be good (two hands free) to have a foot control for the direction and speed of the platform,,, but in reality it would create further problems in the darkness.

Cheers,

I firmly stand in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" camp.
Potentiometers are a bit notorious for getting dry spots. Basically they have a contact that runs over a coil of wire, and if that connection is not good (wear/oxidation/dirt) they fail at that particular point. In guitar amps etc they can get 'noisy', and I've found a spray of CRC fixes it. You may be able to squirt some inside yours and improve or even fix it. Or just replace the pot with something a bit better.

Foot control for direction would be easy to implement, controling direction and speed with potentiometers linked to pedals sounds like a great idea, but would be a bit more complex to do.

[Die Judicii]

Thanks for that,,, unfortunately the potentiometer is pretty small, and appears to be a sealed unit. So i guess that rules out a squirt of giggle juice. I’m shying away from the foot pedal control idea because i’d more than likely actuate it by mistake in the dark.

[JDM9691]

Fair enough. I've had a little google and it appears that standard potentiometers can't handle heavy loads such as DC motors, which would explain why they are failing on you (and that lubrication is unlikely to fix a dead spot). They reccomend a higher power rheostat, or Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) control which would involve digital controllers or possibly and Arduino board.

[Die Judicii]

Fair enough. I've had a little google and it appears that standard potentiometers can't handle heavy loads such as DC motors, which would explain why they are failing on you (and that lubrication is unlikely to fix a dead spot). They reccomend a higher power rheostat, or Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) control which would involve digital controllers or possibly and Arduino board.

So,,,,,,,,,,
Is a "higher power rheostat" something other than a potentiometer ? (I said I was ignorant when it comes to electronics)

I see that potentiometers are cheap as,,,,,,, but come in a myriad of differing ratings.
If I can find out what rating mine is it could be a simple fix to buy half a dozen of them, and just replace when necessary.

I get approx a years use before they go down the gurgler.

[JDM9691]

Not an expert myself - they may indeed be the same thing, but light duty ones have a resistive flat track, while heavier duty ones have coils of wire wrapped around the track. If you can get the specs of the one you have, I'm sure you could find something higher.

[Die Judicii]

Thanks to all and sundry that put forward info and suggestions.

I bought a few new potentiometers and did the transplants,, and none of them solved the issues.

And the other electronics mob that seem to specialize in parts for robot builds continued along the same pathway,,,,,,, that is,,,,, making what should have been a fairly simple task,, overly complicated and even more expensived.

So I cracked the sh!ts big time, and went back to the original supplier of the complete speed controller unit and bought another one of them.

Thinking I was gonna be on the right path, and just have to do a simple transplant, and be back in business.

No way.

They had ceased production of the original version, and replaced it with the new version which is exactly the same,,,,,, only different.
(same animal different color)

Little changes like different size plugs, color coded wiring totally different, wires and plugs at different ends of the circuit board, all of which just made a simple drop in transplant frustratingly difficult.
They also removed one feature completely in the new controller. (that wasn't essential to my end use anyway).
And the price had increased significantly compared to the old unit.
So, in effect, I paid more, and got less.

But I persevered,,,,,,,,,,,, and it is now up and running properly again.

[Wapiti]

Might pay to get a spare controller for future stock... or your rig might become one big boat anchor at any time in the future mate.
Yeah, shouldn't have to... but as we see all the time nowadays, quality and confidence is very hard to find anymore.
Maybe impossible next time.