Can a Bore Snake damage the Rifle Bore?

[flutch]

You can write it in capitals but it is still untrue, you can cause damage. You can also damage your barrel with a cleaning rod if you drag it down the side of your chamber. The nature of a rope is that is is very difficult to pull it through the breach and out the muzzle with it parallel to the bore axis. This off centre rubbing erodes the chamber and crown over time. If your expectation of accuracy is to place you bullet within a couple of inches of your aiming point at 50 metres then you will probably not notice any detrimental effects for a long time.

I have no interest in changing your cleaning routine, you are obviously happy with it. I was answering the OP question, the decision is up to him how he proceeds.

Warm regards,

CJ.

I guess my rifles must have been forged in Hades by the fires of Prometheus and with the strength of Zuess then, cos my rifles have all had boresnakes through them more than I can recount and they are all still shooting sub moa.

Someone mentioned on another forum has anyone actually setup a controlled experiment using both a clean and dirty boresnake in two identical barrels and having them cycled recklessly to one side for hundreds of cycles then do a real assessment on the actual extent of damage?

Answer is no, and therefore it's all hearsay, I honestly don't care how people clean their bore, but end of the day, until such an experiment is carried out no one can actually say that they do harm barrels like people assert. So until then I will keep using mine on my still sub moa rifles.

[bladeracer]

The question posed is "Can a bore snake damage the rifle bore?".
The answer is yes. The potential for damage is there any time you clean the bore, regardless of what you use, even a one-piece rod can make a mess with poor technique.

Is it likely though? I doubt it, but it does happen that occasionally a new rifle is damaged by over-zealous cleaning.

A generalisation, but I think you're more likely to find a bore snake to be the primary cleaning equipment of the "less enthuiastic" shooter, somebody who shoots less ammo in a year than the cost of a nice $70 rod. Others of us buy one-piece rods in various thicknesses (I have one .17", one .20", and several .22" and .30" rods, plus a much thicker gun rod), trying to push patches with a .17 rod down a .243 is a sure way to bend the rod. They have roller-bearing handles to allow the rod to rotate freely with the rifling, and some have brass muzzle guides as well. I also have several multi-piece rods, the short lengths are useful for scrubbing the chamber. I have several bore snakes, including the Otis Cable, all unused, but reassuring to know I have something with me if needed. My field-cleaning kit is the M16 kit that is very compact and clips onto a belt or pack, also unused other than pushing out an occasional sqibbed bullet. Over the top? Very likely, but it works for me

On the other hand I doubt I've ever bought anything for cleaning cars and bikes as I never clean them, I care for my firearms much better than my vehicles.

I have Rose's father's "cleaning rod" here, a length of fence wire he used for seventy years, I really must post some pics of it. Needless to say, his .22 bore is in the most atrocious state I think I've ever seen The very best "patterns" I managed were around five-inches at 25m. I pushed jacketed .224" bullets through the bore, they "floated" freely through the middle 21", and barely engraved in the 2" at each end of the barrel. Remarkably, jacketed .224" bullets did shoot quite well through it, from memory around 35mm at 25m (my memory was pretty good - it shot a 34mm group at 25m with the 35gn NTX on a Cyclone charged case).

I have since removed the Remington 510 barrel to replace it with a Lithgow Model 12 barrel that I know shoots very well.

[Oldbloke]

Im not a fan of snakes and only use traditional cleaning methods. But I very much doubt the use of a snake will do much harm.

Copper, lead and the soot/crud/carbacious matter that comes out of a bore is all softer than the barrel. It must be otherwise barrels would be worn out after a few hundred rounds. Barrel crud is mainly carbon, but it isnt diamond, its just a mixture of sooty crap. Ive heard shooters say carbon is the hardest matter known to man. Thats correct, if its a diamond. But graphite is also pure carbon and one of the best lubricants u can find. Its just in a different molecular structure.

Even if the sooty crap was harder than the barrel the number of times its pulled through would take yonks to do real damage. We still do that using a rod, just less.

I would disasemble the rifle and use a rod. But if you want to use a snake, use it. Then after a few uses toss it in the wash with your undies to clean it. Lol

https://www.ssaa.org.au/stories/hints-t ... rearm.html

[sungazer]

Look at it another way Oldbloke do you think a bore snake can actually clean a rifle very well? Running a bore snake through the barrel a couple of times may make the shooter feel better about themselves but that is about all it is doing. Failing to clean out all that carbon is the biggest problem. When you continue to shoot over the carbon it becomes harder and it embeds itself into the steel, then when it does start to get moved on by the continues shooting bits of your barrel steel go along with it.
Now that there are good cheap bore scopes available more people will be able to see what is happening in the barrel.

[bladeracer]

I'm waiting on a new borescope, 5mm so I can finally look through my .223" bores as well.

[Sergeant Hartman]

There was an amazon US digital borescope anyone know the name. Its one of the first cheap ones with a mirror so you can actually see the rifle bore properly. Sorry to go off topic

[Wm.Traynor]

FWIW, henryusa.com has disassembly and cleaning videos.

[Stix]

I'm waiting on a new borescope, 5mm so I can finally look through my .223" bores as well.

It would be great to see one of your smoking reviews Blade...

[Oldbloke]

Look at it another way Oldbloke do you think a bore snake can actually clean a rifle very well? Running a bore snake through the barrel a couple of times may make the shooter feel better about themselves but that is about all it is doing. Failing to clean out all that carbon is the biggest problem. When you continue to shoot over the carbon it becomes harder and it embeds itself into the steel, then when it does start to get moved on by the continues shooting bits of your barrel steel go along with it.
Now that there are good cheap bore scopes available more people will be able to see what is happening in the barrel.

1. Certainly not as good as the traditional methods. Mmmm certainly didnt intend to suggest it.

2. Not convenced tthat compression automatically makes it harder. Eg greater ability to grind/errode metal. But it will be pushed into the tiny pores of the steel.

Consider slate, highly compressed over millions of years, put still soft. But i may be corrected.

[sungazer]

The newish bore scope that is for sale on Amazon is not a US scope although they would like to think so. It is from China a company called Teslong. You can buy it directly from them $50 US they have a couple of new models out now as well a wifi and a hard shaft rather than the flexi. I have the Flexible and it will fit down 22 barrel. Very good.

I have found from experience that carbon that has been shot over on another session is much harder to remove. If it is done just after shooting while on a warm barrel it comes off and clean much easier. Carbon rings that form from not cleaning regularly are very hard to remove.

[Oldbloke]

"Carbon rings that form from not cleaning regularly are very hard to remove."

Fair enough. I would think that is likely to be true.
Im just saying might not be any more "abrasive".

Arardite is hard to remove, but its soft. They are different properties.

PS, in order to abrate or grind, not only must be harder than the material to be ground, it must also have sharpish edges. The smooth crystalline facet of a diamond will grind zilch. Only the edges will scratch or grind.it ss a sort of "point loading"

[Am88]

How did republicland05 or whatever it was change his name? Either way I keep a snake for field use if needed as stated, dirt or dropped etc. Other then that I use traditional methods.

[Potatoes]

I reckon a bit of jb pastes on a boresnake would do an ok job of lapping a barrel.

[SCJ429]

You might be onto something 'Taters'. Perfect for lapping all of those chatter marks in Howa barrels....

[Oldbloke]

Yep, I always take an old fashioned pull through hunting.

[perentie]

I'm waiting on a new borescope, 5mm so I can finally look through my .223" bores as well.

I just bought the Teslong off ebay. Plugs into my laptop with windows 10. Worked straight out of the box.
I was horrified at the condition of my wifes .223 throat. Lots of pitting and erosion. Had a couple of thousand F class rounds through it. I had no idea it was so bad.Its not used for that now but, just hunting and plinking etc.

[straightshooter]

About the only time I would think the use of a bore snake could be condoned is where there is real urgency to run some oil down either a rain soaked barrel particularly a chrome moly barrel, or having fired corrosive primed ammunition and not having ready access to the proper implements for prompt cleaning.
As for damage to bores; just about any implement in the hands of an uninformed 'enthusiast' can be misused to the detriment of a barrels' internal dimensional integrity.

[flutch]

Still waiting for that lab test/experiment showing the damage over time......

[bladeracer]

Still waiting for that lab test/experiment showing the damage over time......

I think you have made your opinion clear

[sungazer]

I dont see why it is so hard to believe. Valve grinding paste is not what you would call really a sharp or large gritty substance. But it will quickly act as an abrasive on steel just like even 400 grit or even 800 grit wet and dry the 800 to the feel is nearly smooth. However it will take a thou of steel very quickly. Change your barrel by a thou and you are in all sorts of trouble.

In my 308 just 1000 rounds fired erodes about the last 3/4 of an inch at the muzzel crown by a thou reducing accuracy and the need for a trim and recrown.

[Oldbloke]

"Valve grinding paste is not what you would call really a sharp or large gritty substance."

Look at it under a 200x microscope.

Abrasives like carborundum or garnet are many times harder than steel. Im not so sure about the hardness of soot from burning gunpowder

Think of it like a knife. Sharp edge cuts, blunt smooth edge does very little. Not saying that the crud wont cause wear. Just would be sfa compared with a few thousands degrees when firing.

Anyway. Way off topic. And we have to agree to disagree.

[Oldbloke]

Here,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scal ... l_hardness.

Must go. Waiting for mr pig and to drink

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Sorry about the late reply Lads
I have been super super busy over the past few days...

I would like to thank everyone who commented on this thread
It has been truly interesting to hear both sides of the arguments
It has opened up my mind a lot
So thank you everybody

And honestly, I kinda of understand both sides

Lads
I'm no expert in firearms at all
I'm new to the firearm world
However, I did use a bore snake 3x times on my henry lever action before I used it for the 1st time
And when I did use the bore snake
I truly got the feeling that it would have done a decent enough/potentially great job cleansing the bore
I had to pull so so hard onto the snake for it to come out of the barrel
I truly felt that it gave the bore such a fantastic scrub on the inside of it
Ridding it of any material that may have been left over in there
+ with the G96
I honestly felt that the bore snake did a good/potentially even a great job cleaning the barrel for me

I could be wrong but that's just the feeling that I got using the bore snake for the 1st time

But I also understand the other side of the argument, that over time, you could potentially damage the crown of the rifle if you dont pull the snake out of the barrel 100% straight/parallel with the barrel

I honestly do understand both sides of the argument

Regardless, this has been a great chat

It's always pleasant to hear both sides of the argument, it's informative, which is what EnoughGun is all about
I love discussing firearm matters with you Lads

[Sergeant Hartman]

Sorry about changing topic.

But thanks to those who mentioned the borescope brand.

[marksman]

this has been a funny thread

wasn't going to jump in but l will give my opinion

of course a boresnake can damage a rifle bore, you could never get all the grit from cleaning a bore out of the fibres in the snake
so you are pulling the grit over at least the muzzle but if the boresnake fits the bore you are pulling the crud over the bore as well

boresnakes are so old school its funny they are still around, they keep the salesman happy
they were good when there was nothing else in the days that we cleaned our rifles with boiling water and old sump oil
there is a better way to clean your rifle bores so why clean your bore with sh!t really

would you clean the outside of your rifle with the cruddy cloth you just cleaned your brushes with
of course you wouldn't and even without the grit a rope will wear down steel, have a real good think about it

use a good quality 1 piece coated or carbon fiber cleaning rod and quality brushes, you will get years out of it

[SCJ429]

Don't bring reasoned argument into it MM.

[marksman]

Don't bring reasoned argument into it MM.

just some common sense really