Can a Bore Snake damage the Rifle Bore?

[Die Judicii]

If you wanted peak accuracy out of your rimfire, what would you describe as excessive or needless cleaning?[/quote]

As in the case of dragging the bristles, solvents, etc through after each and every session of using the rifle.
The wax coating on most (if not all) .22rf ammo these days has a purpose.
Sometimes those that are new and keen can sort of be over exuberant and kill with kindness.

[bladeracer]

[quote="Die Judicii"I agree wholeheartedly with what Blade Racer said in relation to the round count between cleanings.
The old .22 rf ammo is pretty kind to barrels, and excessive/needless cleaning is probably more of something you need to be aware of.[/quote

If you wanted peak accuracy out of your rimfire, what would you describe as excessive or needless cleaning?

That will depend on the specific rifle, and perhaps even the ammo you're using.

To me, any cleaning of the bore that is not improving the accuracy is unnecessary. .22LR bullets coat the bore with lube, there is virtually no lead left in the bore if the lube is doing its job.

The action, and sometimes the chamber, needs more frequent cleaning to minimize wear and maintain reliable function.

I shoot until accuaracy appears to be reducing, then patch it out, and shoot again. If accuracy returns after cleaning (it may require a box full down the tube to settle in again) then I clean it sooner next time. Eventually you'll work out how many rounds is optimal.

Of course, this applies to rifles you do actually use. If your 22 sits in the safe for six-months before you use it again it is probably worth patching it out and ensuring the bore is protected with oil.

[sungazer]

There was a young guy here a few years ago that had a CZ that he could not get to shoot. I went to the range with him and started going through the trouble shooting process. It turned out that the rifle needed to be cleaned about every 20 -30 rounds. It would really just grab everything and foul up. Once cleaned just using some carby cleaner and then a dry patch, even just a dry patch would work it would return to very good accuracy and consistency. 20-30 shots later the POI would change and it would start spraying them.

We ended with that but what it probably needed was a clean with JB bore paste or Autosol. It was a new rifle and I bet it had a few burrs in the barrel. It was before I had a borescope it would of been interesting to have a look down.

When I bought a Savage A22 I had a look down the barrel and sent the photos to NOIA they quickly exchanged the rifle. The next one was much better but still a little rough a quick paste clean and it was looking much better. Kind of like doing your own lapping. In a centre fire I am sure the bullets would clean out the burrs in a new barrel but a 22 shooting soft lead and well lubed bullets it probably would take a lot of shooting if ever to bring it good.

[Tank]

[quote="SCJ429"]You can abrade your barrel using a bore snake.”

That’s a fair generalisation there SJ.
I would suggest used within the suggested manor you’re wrong in fact.

Whilst I agree the use of a rod, patches, solvent and oil are tried and true. But we’re talking 22 rim fire here! I haven’t cleaned my BSA Sportsman 10 in thousands of rounds....CCI Standard Velocity waxed bullets. I think you all are getting a little carried away. A bore snake pulled through for a quick tidy isn’t going to hurt a thing. Go easy on the oil.

To the OP..... there’s stacks of useful information on cleaning your rifle out there.
Do some research but don’t be afraid of your boresnake....it’s just another tool.

Tank.

[flutch]

honestly anything a boresnake could have on it from regular cleaning (unless you shower yours in iron filings or garnet or something) is the same s**t that is in your barrel between shots, if its not dieseling up on the rounds as theyre fired far more aggressively than you could ever hope to pull a boresnake through then its pretty much 100% impossible that you are going to work up enough gumption to do more harm than the last round did.

[SCJ429]

You can abrade your barrel using a bore snake.”

That’s a fair generalisation there SJ.
I would suggest used within the suggested manor you’re wrong in fact.

Whilst I agree the use of a rod, patches, solvent and oil are tried and true. But we’re talking 22 rim fire here! I haven’t cleaned my BSA Sportsman 10 in thousands of rounds....CCI Standard Velocity waxed bullets. I think you all are getting a little carried away. A bore snake pulled through for a quick tidy isn’t going to hurt a thing. Go easy on the oil.

Tank.

No Tank, it is you that is wrong. You can damage your barrel using a piece of rope to clean it. Go find yourself a competition shooter and ask them if they clean their rifle this way. When they say "No", ask them why.

As I said in my post, if it is just a plinker you are not worried about then go ahead. My suggestion for the lazy shooter with a plinker is don't clean it at all. You probably will not notice much degradation in your shooting for thousands of rounds.

[SCJ429]

Here is what Dan Lilja says about cleaning a rimfire barrel, you may note he does not mention using a bore snake.

https://riflebarrels.com/support/22-rim ... intenance/

[SCJ429]

Here is a link from Kreiger Barrels about the way to break in and clean your new barrel. Believe it or not the suggested way to clean your barrel is with a one piece rod and bore guide. No mention of a bore snake, can you tell me why?

https://kriegerbarrels.com/faq#breakin

[pomemax]

TheFirearmEnthusiast
As you an see from this topc a lot of different answers and oppinions You might say as many as there are firearms and most people that you ask are correct that,s what makes the world go round as they say.
Take all the answers that you get find what works for you in that and then your an expert for your own guns .
My take on this I clean with a 1 peice rod and bore guide @ home when I am there , if im not at home and have shot a few rounds I may wipe it with a bore guide from my pack on a centerfire but on a rimfire.22( I am not using any rimfire in any sort of compitition ) I will clean it when i get home with an oily cloth to the outside only

[bladeracer]

It is not the bore that risks damage from a bore snake, that is not going to happen, the problem is wear of the crown and the chamber due to pulling a dirty length of rope across one side of the perfectly-cut contour of the steel edge. This is a recognized problem since bore snakes were first issued in the military. If you use a muzzle or bore guide you are less likely to do damage.

[Tank]

Here is what Dan Lilja says about cleaning a rimfire barrel, you may note he does not mention using a bore snake.

https://riflebarrels.com/support/22-rim ... intenance/

Limited use of a boresnake using it in the manor described by the OP.....won’t hurt a blessed thing SJ.

You can quote whoever you like. It’s a 22 rim fire.....it doesn’t need the same level of care as a centre fire (particularly if you’re using waxed lead bullets....as previously stated).

The OP WILL NOT hurt his 22 with a bore snake. (If he uses it as suggested by Hoppes). End of story.

Kind regards,
Tank.

[SCJ429]

The OP WILL NOT hurt his 22 with a bore snake. (If he uses it as suggested by Hoppes). End of story.

Kind regards,
Tank.

You can write it in capitals but it is still untrue, you can cause damage. You can also damage your barrel with a cleaning rod if you drag it down the side of your chamber. The nature of a rope is that is is very difficult to pull it through the breach and out the muzzle with it parallel to the bore axis. This off centre rubbing erodes the chamber and crown over time. If your expectation of accuracy is to place you bullet within a couple of inches of your aiming point at 50 metres then you will probably not notice any detrimental effects for a long time.

I have no interest in changing your cleaning routine, you are obviously happy with it. I was answering the OP question, the decision is up to him how he proceeds.

Warm regards,

CJ.

[flutch]

You can write it in capitals but it is still untrue, you can cause damage. You can also damage your barrel with a cleaning rod if you drag it down the side of your chamber. The nature of a rope is that is is very difficult to pull it through the breach and out the muzzle with it parallel to the bore axis. This off centre rubbing erodes the chamber and crown over time. If your expectation of accuracy is to place you bullet within a couple of inches of your aiming point at 50 metres then you will probably not notice any detrimental effects for a long time.

I have no interest in changing your cleaning routine, you are obviously happy with it. I was answering the OP question, the decision is up to him how he proceeds.

Warm regards,

CJ.

I guess my rifles must have been forged in Hades by the fires of Prometheus and with the strength of Zuess then, cos my rifles have all had boresnakes through them more than I can recount and they are all still shooting sub moa.

Someone mentioned on another forum has anyone actually setup a controlled experiment using both a clean and dirty boresnake in two identical barrels and having them cycled recklessly to one side for hundreds of cycles then do a real assessment on the actual extent of damage?

Answer is no, and therefore it's all hearsay, I honestly don't care how people clean their bore, but end of the day, until such an experiment is carried out no one can actually say that they do harm barrels like people assert. So until then I will keep using mine on my still sub moa rifles.

[bladeracer]

The question posed is "Can a bore snake damage the rifle bore?".
The answer is yes. The potential for damage is there any time you clean the bore, regardless of what you use, even a one-piece rod can make a mess with poor technique.

Is it likely though? I doubt it, but it does happen that occasionally a new rifle is damaged by over-zealous cleaning.

A generalisation, but I think you're more likely to find a bore snake to be the primary cleaning equipment of the "less enthuiastic" shooter, somebody who shoots less ammo in a year than the cost of a nice $70 rod. Others of us buy one-piece rods in various thicknesses (I have one .17", one .20", and several .22" and .30" rods, plus a much thicker gun rod), trying to push patches with a .17 rod down a .243 is a sure way to bend the rod. They have roller-bearing handles to allow the rod to rotate freely with the rifling, and some have brass muzzle guides as well. I also have several multi-piece rods, the short lengths are useful for scrubbing the chamber. I have several bore snakes, including the Otis Cable, all unused, but reassuring to know I have something with me if needed. My field-cleaning kit is the M16 kit that is very compact and clips onto a belt or pack, also unused other than pushing out an occasional sqibbed bullet. Over the top? Very likely, but it works for me

On the other hand I doubt I've ever bought anything for cleaning cars and bikes as I never clean them, I care for my firearms much better than my vehicles.

I have Rose's father's "cleaning rod" here, a length of fence wire he used for seventy years, I really must post some pics of it. Needless to say, his .22 bore is in the most atrocious state I think I've ever seen The very best "patterns" I managed were around five-inches at 25m. I pushed jacketed .224" bullets through the bore, they "floated" freely through the middle 21", and barely engraved in the 2" at each end of the barrel. Remarkably, jacketed .224" bullets did shoot quite well through it, from memory around 35mm at 25m (my memory was pretty good - it shot a 34mm group at 25m with the 35gn NTX on a Cyclone charged case).

I have since removed the Remington 510 barrel to replace it with a Lithgow Model 12 barrel that I know shoots very well.

[Oldbloke]

Im not a fan of snakes and only use traditional cleaning methods. But I very much doubt the use of a snake will do much harm.

Copper, lead and the soot/crud/carbacious matter that comes out of a bore is all softer than the barrel. It must be otherwise barrels would be worn out after a few hundred rounds. Barrel crud is mainly carbon, but it isnt diamond, its just a mixture of sooty crap. Ive heard shooters say carbon is the hardest matter known to man. Thats correct, if its a diamond. But graphite is also pure carbon and one of the best lubricants u can find. Its just in a different molecular structure.

Even if the sooty crap was harder than the barrel the number of times its pulled through would take yonks to do real damage. We still do that using a rod, just less.

I would disasemble the rifle and use a rod. But if you want to use a snake, use it. Then after a few uses toss it in the wash with your undies to clean it. Lol

https://www.ssaa.org.au/stories/hints-t ... rearm.html

[sungazer]

Look at it another way Oldbloke do you think a bore snake can actually clean a rifle very well? Running a bore snake through the barrel a couple of times may make the shooter feel better about themselves but that is about all it is doing. Failing to clean out all that carbon is the biggest problem. When you continue to shoot over the carbon it becomes harder and it embeds itself into the steel, then when it does start to get moved on by the continues shooting bits of your barrel steel go along with it.
Now that there are good cheap bore scopes available more people will be able to see what is happening in the barrel.

[bladeracer]

I'm waiting on a new borescope, 5mm so I can finally look through my .223" bores as well.

[Sergeant Hartman]

There was an amazon US digital borescope anyone know the name. Its one of the first cheap ones with a mirror so you can actually see the rifle bore properly. Sorry to go off topic

[Wm.Traynor]

FWIW, henryusa.com has disassembly and cleaning videos.

[Stix]

I'm waiting on a new borescope, 5mm so I can finally look through my .223" bores as well.

It would be great to see one of your smoking reviews Blade...

[Oldbloke]

Look at it another way Oldbloke do you think a bore snake can actually clean a rifle very well? Running a bore snake through the barrel a couple of times may make the shooter feel better about themselves but that is about all it is doing. Failing to clean out all that carbon is the biggest problem. When you continue to shoot over the carbon it becomes harder and it embeds itself into the steel, then when it does start to get moved on by the continues shooting bits of your barrel steel go along with it.
Now that there are good cheap bore scopes available more people will be able to see what is happening in the barrel.

1. Certainly not as good as the traditional methods. Mmmm certainly didnt intend to suggest it.

2. Not convenced tthat compression automatically makes it harder. Eg greater ability to grind/errode metal. But it will be pushed into the tiny pores of the steel.

Consider slate, highly compressed over millions of years, put still soft. But i may be corrected.

[sungazer]

The newish bore scope that is for sale on Amazon is not a US scope although they would like to think so. It is from China a company called Teslong. You can buy it directly from them $50 US they have a couple of new models out now as well a wifi and a hard shaft rather than the flexi. I have the Flexible and it will fit down 22 barrel. Very good.

I have found from experience that carbon that has been shot over on another session is much harder to remove. If it is done just after shooting while on a warm barrel it comes off and clean much easier. Carbon rings that form from not cleaning regularly are very hard to remove.

[Oldbloke]

"Carbon rings that form from not cleaning regularly are very hard to remove."

Fair enough. I would think that is likely to be true.
Im just saying might not be any more "abrasive".

Arardite is hard to remove, but its soft. They are different properties.

PS, in order to abrate or grind, not only must be harder than the material to be ground, it must also have sharpish edges. The smooth crystalline facet of a diamond will grind zilch. Only the edges will scratch or grind.it ss a sort of "point loading"

[Am88]

How did republicland05 or whatever it was change his name? Either way I keep a snake for field use if needed as stated, dirt or dropped etc. Other then that I use traditional methods.

[Potatoes]

I reckon a bit of jb pastes on a boresnake would do an ok job of lapping a barrel.

[SCJ429]

You might be onto something 'Taters'. Perfect for lapping all of those chatter marks in Howa barrels....

[Oldbloke]

Yep, I always take an old fashioned pull through hunting.

[perentie]

I'm waiting on a new borescope, 5mm so I can finally look through my .223" bores as well.

I just bought the Teslong off ebay. Plugs into my laptop with windows 10. Worked straight out of the box.
I was horrified at the condition of my wifes .223 throat. Lots of pitting and erosion. Had a couple of thousand F class rounds through it. I had no idea it was so bad.Its not used for that now but, just hunting and plinking etc.

[straightshooter]

About the only time I would think the use of a bore snake could be condoned is where there is real urgency to run some oil down either a rain soaked barrel particularly a chrome moly barrel, or having fired corrosive primed ammunition and not having ready access to the proper implements for prompt cleaning.
As for damage to bores; just about any implement in the hands of an uninformed 'enthusiast' can be misused to the detriment of a barrels' internal dimensional integrity.

[flutch]

Still waiting for that lab test/experiment showing the damage over time......