Buying a used safe

[mickb]

with a few threads on safes going and some background in the security industry, thought I would share a few options for blokes looking for increased security with used 'Real Safes'. Not everyone needs it, some are happy with lighter units or just satisfying the legislation which is fine. For those who want more, there can be better alternatives to going for a more expensive gun safe. Large locksmiths and safe companies will often have refurbed real safe units on the floor. A lot more protection, expensive new but a fraction the cost second hand. Can also be found cheap when businesses, shops or government offices close down Safes weighing over a ton are often not as difficult to move as it seems. Locksmiths can assist with installation or just trucking the safe to the driveway, garage or man cave, then you and mates roll it on steel pipes( placing the one behind in front it rolls forward on them) to final position.

A quick breakdown on safe types. They come in several main grades and a variety of size and shapes. For the purpose of this weights are for 4-6ft tall types which are those useful to long arms.

1. Security Cabinets. Known by various names these are essentially 'not real safes'. They include gun safes, home safes, most fire safes, and other lockable boxes. Steel thickness is usually 1mm-6mm, the lightest can be flipped( door pried) with a screw driver, the best made 6mm boxes are almost hand tool proof but of course susceptible to power tools. Low cash rating, mostly zero, some up to 5-10k. Their advantages are low cost, lightweight and often high storage capacity. Very large, wide safes can be had and weight usually stays under 250kg.

2. Plate safes. This is where real safes and security starts. The door and body is usually at least 10mm steel ,sometimes more. There are three main types in this group: bare plate, plate with firefill( the safe may have a second thin steel skin with firefluff between the main and second layer) and the heaviest units which have a layer of concrete between the steel skins. The door is generally a single plate with hardplates around lock mechanism areas to resist drilling. The extra weight of these, particularly the concrete fill safes, makes them a theft deterrant. Weight usually ranges from 300kg to just over a tonne. These are considered good options for gun owners as the weight is still very manouverable, they are hand tool proof and powered tool attacks while possible will take some time and expertise. These safes have a medium security rating, usually between $5-50k insurable. Prices used can be as low as $500-1500

3. TDR Safes( Torch and Drill Resistant), the highest grade of safe this includes Class A, bank and Jeweller safes. Similar in external appearance to plate safes but with much heavier hinges, far heavier walls and doors several inches thick of refractory layers. Glass relockers prevent unskilled drilling attempts on the door as they surround the internal locks, and break and release deadbolts siezing the door bolts permanently. These are extremely heavy, weight in the heights mentioned will between 1.5-3 tons. They will usually have a fire rating of 1-2 hours just due to their wall thickness. These can often be found cheap on classifieds as businesses dont want to deal with moving them. They can be very specialised moves so gunowners looking at one of these need to do their homework. The advantage is they are basically impregnable, only pro's with heavy equipment , expertise in the safe type and hours available are in with a chance.The reality is most professional safe crackers are retired these days, - internet based alarms and response times made it too difficult for them to ply their trade and businesses dont store as much cash in the online age anyway. Price- usuallly $1000-2500 second hand

Other safe types
Heavy data or media safes. These are large, capacious and moderately heavy, and can be found cheap on the market. Security rating is usually type 1 or type 2 above.
Antique safes which come in a huge variety. The general rule is they are less secure than their modern countperparts if they were built in an era pre-powertools.

Buying a used safe

Options- all the safe companies and larger locksmiths in your location. Also gumtree, ebay and facebook marketplace.

What to check for

Generally from a company its a safe buy. They dont want to be coming out and fixing it later so you are getting something that should last longer than your lifetime. Usually its been serviced and resprayed. For private sales if it is a large or high grade safe its worth paying the $80-100 call out fee for a locksmith to check it out for you. In either case the following should be checked
1. That the seller can open it. Some safes have lost keys or combos. They can be drilled out and opened, but you need to figure that cost in. Locked safes should be treated as almost a free giveaway price.
2. Hinges are good, its one of the few things that can fail on safes. Check thedoor doesnt sag and still swings all the way with a single finger pressure.
3. Rust and wall cancer not present. Check the inside and outside, also make sure the walls arent bulging. This can be from internal rust and material changes within the wall layers
4 Check internal dimensions match your requirements. For security cabinets and bare plate safes this will not vary much from the externals. For concrete fill and TDR safes with walls several inches thick obviously they will be smaller on the inside.
5. It hasnt been stored outside in the elements.
6.You can move it from the location and into your location. Some safes have been placed with building additions built around them at later date.

Servicing safes.
Safes take very little upkeep but a call out by a technician once a year or two is not a bad idea for larger units. If in the unlilkely event a low or medium grade safe lock fails it a basic non- destructive drilling operation for a competent locksmith to open it and replace or repair the lock. For TDR safes it is more difficult, a locksmith experienced in TDR units will use a magnetic drill to hit specific depth and position around the relockers to scope and manipulate the locks. Highest grade safes can take many hours to drill open. A drilled safe is easily refurbished for the record, the locksmith will refill the hole and the safe is as strong as new.

If safes are attacked by crims they will often attempt to break off hinges, keypads or lock mechanisms. Such attacks will not work and only prevent the safe from being opened.The downside of course is you will likely have to employ a locksmith to get the door open and refurbish it for you, or if they have abused it too much externally, write the unit off.

Lock types. The three types of mechanisms are keylock, combo dial and keypads. Generally keys and combination dials by repuatable brands such as SGT and Greenleaf as the most reliable. Keypads like all electronic items may fail, though the highest grade brands such as lagard are very reliable. My personal choice are keys since apart from their simplicity their aperture is also the most durable to superflous attacks.

Improving security, worth noting for lighter safes
1. use safes as part of an overall system including alarms.
2. Place safe in the corner of the room, as two surfaces will be protected
3. Bolt it down. Even safes weighing hundreds of kg's get stolen. Also safe doors are harder to flip( pry open) upright. Crims prefer to topple them onto their back so they can pry the door with long bars standing over it
3. Place it so the door opens away from the wall. This is as pry attacks need room to pry around to the opposite side of the safe. Cant if the wall is in the way.
4 . Use other furntiure in the room to restrict access to the safe. A beer fridge, cabinet or cupboard bolted near or beside it.
5. Employ locking racks or chains for guns inside. Apart from a second line of defence, if a crim cuts a certain size handhole to access contents, he may then find he has to recut larger hole to get tools in to deal with the interior.
6. Hide or disguise the safe. Make a wardrobe around it, put it under stairs, place a fridge packing carton over it. Cover up the glossy logos and fake vault style spoke handles. Regards spoke handles they are not needed unless turning boltwork weighing hundreds of KG, aka a vault door. On tin box gunsafes they are a sales gimmick. I use a gunsafe for some items and I unscrewed the spokes and just use it as a door handle. Much less conspicuous.
7. Dont tell anyone what you have, You mention to family or friends you have a 'big safe' and word spreads. One day the wrong ears at work or a bar overhear it and then you get a visit one night. Four of the toughest 3000kg safe types ever made, USA TRTL60X6's, Chubb Isolator, Wormald 7000 and Wormald 8000 are designed to survive attacks for hours or even days. But can all be opened in about 30 seconds if the crim has a gun to your families head.

[TassieTiger]

Bloody awesome info mate and some great ideas

[Noisydad]

That was really interesting! Thanks for that post!

[boingk]

Top read mate, great info. I especially liked the bit about sales gimmick vault spinners and loose lips sinking ships. Can't be more accurate than that; a safe is only a strong as its owner.

Cheers!

- boingk

[mickb]

a pleasure fellas, if anyone is looking at a particular safe feel free to pm and I will help if I can. Another thing about safes is often you are buying piece of Aussie history. Australian safes were british based but early on we started making our own. In the end the aussie safes of the 70's and 80's were the best in the world. They had to be as we had the most remote townships and pre-internet/cctv you needed something to survive attacks for long periods before help arrived.

[TassieTiger]

You’ve really got me thinking about a locking rack inside the safe...