Newb gun safe questions

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Newb gun safe questions

Post by Lovey » 24 Jun 2021, 6:13 pm

G'day all,
I'm doing some research on gun safes and I was wondering if I could impose on your knowledge to answer some newb questions please?
I know that the number of rifles that can fit into a gun safe is exaggerated by the manufacturers, and I found on another post here that you should allow 80mm width per rifle, so I can work out the (rough) width of the safe. The thing that I can't find is how high a rifle with scope is, so I can work out what depth of of safe that I need. The sites that I've checked have the length of the rifle, but not the height.

There is a place that has custom made safes that look good and they have a Cat A,B,C and H rating, as opposed to most which only have Cat A & B. The depth of these safes are 250mm, whereas most of the commercial offerings that I've seen are around 300mm.
The other thing is that these safe's don't have a separate lockable box for bolt's or ammunition. They do offer a custom design option, but I expect that could be quite pricey compared to a ready made job.
Is that enough depth for a scoped rifle and is the lack of separate box a big deal, or should I look elsewhere?
Thanks for looking,
Steve
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 24 Jun 2021, 6:59 pm

What state do you live as each state has a different law regarding storage. In queensland cat A,B and C do not need to be bolted to the floor if the mass of the safe is over 150kg. Cat D,H and R must be bolted regardless of mass.

How many firearms do you want as that will indicate how big of a safe you need. Whatever a safe is advertised for, you can nearly cut that number in half. A 10 gun safe will hold about 5 or 6 longarms.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by MontyShooter » 24 Jun 2021, 8:12 pm

I've got 9 in a 16 gun safe and it's a serious game of tetris to get them in and out now. Bagging guns at least let's you pack them in a little tighter.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Lsfan » 24 Jun 2021, 8:22 pm

I’ve got a supposed 3 gun safe which is 250x250 and has an inbuilt ammo compartment. I have 3 rifles in it and 2 have scopes. One is an air rifle. It is a juggling act to get them in and one of the scoped ones is turned at around 45 degrees. The problem is the door protrudes into the space and has a bracket on the door also. I have the rifles in socks to allow contact without damage. I want a 4th rifle and reckon it will fit upside down so that stock is at the top with the barrels of the others. Without the scopes I’d easily fit the rifles in without manipulating them so I think the issue with advertising safe capacity is they don’t consider the scopes. So in summary, I think a 300 deep safe would be much better for rifles with scopes.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Jun 2021, 10:20 pm

Lovey, storage is different in most states so wait for NSW advice.

My 10 gun Lockaway is 300mm deep. It's fine for rifles with scopes. Squeezing a mixed bag of 7 in their. Most in socks and a game of tetras. No more for me. Lol

Wait for NSW advice, but I think you can store ammo in another box, eg a tool box.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by MontyShooter » 24 Jun 2021, 10:32 pm

I guess if things get really tight, I could always take the actions out of the stocks and chassis’ and just store the actions in the safe. The rest of the gun can be stored wherever…in Vic at least.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by boingk » 24 Jun 2021, 11:42 pm

Custom made safes? Jesus.

Leave that for the professionals or sticklers, and just go to the local shop and see whats there. Pick one you like and have a chat with the staff. They'll be happy to help.

Personally I love my 300 deep / 500 wide safe. Good for about a dozen longarms.

NSW you do indeed just need the ammunition stored in a 'seperate lockable container', which does include a compartment inside the safe which can be locked separate from the firearms... or just a plain old toolbox. Hell, the legislation doesn't even differentiate constructions and many approved storage containers resemble large plastic lunchboxes.

Personally I'd stick with a metal toolbox of some sort in addition to the safe. Ex-mil ammunition cans (or modern reproductions) are also quite handy and generally reasonably cheap.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by ZaineB » 25 Jun 2021, 12:36 am

buy the biggest one you can accomodate financially and physically, more room for your things is never a bad thing, I am buying a 2nd safe soon due to being fed up with the game of Jenga I play every time I go shooting.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by pomemax » 25 Jun 2021, 1:36 am

NSW gun safe IF mass is over 150 kg no need to bold down for A/B If your thinking of pistols down the line even if its mass is 240 kg you need it bolted for H/C/D
Wall thickness 3 mm For A/B 6 mm For H/C/D
In nsw you do not have to remove the bolts when storing.
Ammunition needs to be in a locked container I use Ammo cans with padlocks fitted 16 different ones next to safe . (all keyed alike )
My safe is 550 × 1060 × 1500 cm and holds a few
When your talking about a gun safe the standard measure is a 410 shot gun so if it says 4 GUN safe it means 4 shotguns NOT 4 rifles with scopes and bi pods ect: as ZaineB said get the biggest you can dont look at hardware shops to buy safes .
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Apollo » 25 Jun 2021, 2:46 am

Not quite right.

All 6mm for Pistols, 3mm wall for Longarms with a 6mm door.

In any case anyone is better reading the Fact Sheet themselves and absorb the information.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by disco stu » 25 Jun 2021, 8:21 am

Aussie disposals sell the military style ammo cans that are lockable for around $30. Even comes with a padlock! These are a good option for storing as they are air/water tight, tough, cheap, easily movable etc etc. I just throw all my small gear and bolt with the ammo in one of those when going off hunting.

When I look at the prices charged for those plastic pelican style cases that are waterproof, it makes these ammo boxes look like even better value. Much better sealing and won't break. I would even use them for camera gear or similar if I had the need
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Communism_Is_Cancer » 25 Jun 2021, 9:15 am

You can buy safes that are half gun and have ammo storage.

https://www.xhunter.com.au/spika-double ... m-gun-safe
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Bello » 25 Jun 2021, 9:27 am

ZaineB wrote:buy the biggest one you can accomodate financially and physically, more room for your things is never a bad thing, I am buying a 2nd safe soon due to being fed up with the game of Jenga I play every time I go shooting.


I have to agree.
If possible, buy an ABCDH compatible safe now and save yourself headaches later on, for when you decide to increase the number of your loved ones.
I have had to increase the number of safes and size of the safes over time. I could have saved heaps if I bought a BIG... ABCDH safe in the beginning.

I to dislike having to play tetris with my cherrished ones.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Lovey » 25 Jun 2021, 2:50 pm

Thanks to everyone that has replied, sorry if I missed anyone.

Communism_Is_Cancer wrote:What state do you live as each state has a different law regarding storage. In queensland cat A,B and C do not need to be bolted to the floor if the mass of the safe is over 150kg. Cat D,H and R must be bolted regardless of mass.
How many firearms do you want as that will indicate how big of a safe you need. Whatever a safe is advertised for, you can nearly cut that number in half. A 10 gun safe will hold about 5 or 6 longarms.

I’m in NSW, I’m only intending to get Cat A/B longarms, but the safe will still be bolted down, no matter how much the safe weighs.
At this stage, I’m only intending on 3, possibly 4, so a 7 capacity safe might do the trick.

MontyShooter wrote:I've got 9 in a 16 gun safe and it's a serious game of tetris to get them in and out now. Bagging guns at least let's you pack them in a little tighter.

Good tip re the bags, thanks.

Lsfan wrote:I’ve got a supposed 3 gun safe which is 250x250 and has an inbuilt ammo compartment. I have 3 rifles in it and 2 have scopes. One is an air rifle. It is a juggling act to get them in and one of the scoped ones is turned at around 45 degrees. The problem is the door protrudes into the space and has a bracket on the door also. I have the rifles in socks to allow contact without damage. I want a 4th rifle and reckon it will fit upside down so that stock is at the top with the barrels of the others. Without the scopes I’d easily fit the rifles in without manipulating them so I think the issue with advertising safe capacity is they don’t consider the scopes. So in summary, I think a 300 deep safe would be much better for rifles with scopes.

Thank you, I think I’ll stump up for a 7 gun safe which ‘should’ accommodate what I need.

Oldbloke wrote:Lovey, storage is different in most states so wait for NSW advice.
My 10 gun Lockaway is 300mm deep. It's fine for rifles with scopes. Squeezing a mixed bag of 7 in their. Most in socks and a game of tetras. No more for me. Lol
Wait for NSW advice, but I think you can store ammo in another box, eg a tool box.

Thanks, it would be great to have some national standards :lol: . I think I might look at one a bit deeper than the 250mm.

boingk wrote:Custom made safes? Jesus.
Leave that for the professionals or sticklers, and just go to the local shop and see whats there. Pick one you like and have a chat with the staff. They'll be happy to help.
Personally I love my 300 deep / 500 wide safe. Good for about a dozen longarms.
NSW you do indeed just need the ammunition stored in a 'seperate lockable container', which does include a compartment inside the safe which can be locked separate from the firearms... or just a plain old toolbox. Hell, the legislation doesn't even differentiate constructions and many approved storage containers resemble large plastic lunchboxes.
Personally I'd stick with a metal toolbox of some sort in addition to the safe. Ex-mil ammunition cans (or modern reproductions) are also quite handy and generally reasonably cheap.

Thanks, I was more thinking of keeping the bolts in the separate container within the gun safe, then having another secure location for the ammunition. Maybe if I ask my wife nicely, she'll get the custom one for me :lol:

ZaineB wrote:buy the biggest one you can accomodate financially and physically, more room for your things is never a bad thing, I am buying a 2nd safe soon due to being fed up with the game of Jenga I play every time I go shooting.

Thanks, I think a 7 gun will suit me.

pomemax wrote:NSW gun safe IF mass is over 150 kg no need to bold down for A/B If your thinking of pistols down the line even if its mass is 240 kg you need it bolted for H/C/D
Wall thickness 3 mm For A/B 6 mm For H/C/D
In nsw you do not have to remove the bolts when storing.
Ammunition needs to be in a locked container I use Ammo cans with padlocks fitted 16 different ones next to safe . (all keyed alike )
My safe is 550 × 1060 × 1500 cm and holds a few
When your talking about a gun safe the standard measure is a 410 shot gun so if it says 4 GUN safe it means 4 shotguns NOT 4 rifles with scopes and bi pods ect: as ZaineB said get the biggest you can dont look at hardware shops to buy safes .

Thanks for your detailed reply and info. I’ve already ruled out the ones from the hardware giants, they look cheap and nasty. I’ll check with my local locksmith who is a CMI dealer and see what he has.

disco stu wrote:Aussie disposals sell the military style ammo cans that are lockable for around $30. Even comes with a padlock! These are a good option for storing as they are air/water tight, tough, cheap, easily movable etc etc. I just throw all my small gear and bolt with the ammo in one of those when going off hunting.
When I look at the prices charged for those plastic pelican style cases that are waterproof, it makes these ammo boxes look like even better value. Much better sealing and won't break. I would even use them for camera gear or similar if I had the need

Thanks for the tip, I’ll keep an eye out, a few places have the ex-mil ammo cans on sale every now and again.

Thanks again everyone for your replies, you've given me some great info.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Lsfan » 25 Jun 2021, 5:51 pm

If you are talking ammo cans for ammo storage, is that acceptable? I would’ve thought a good idea for transport, but not storage since it’s not affixed to anything. I may be wrong, but specific ammo safes are either inbuilt to a gun safe or separate units for bolting to the floor or wall.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Lovey » 25 Jun 2021, 6:01 pm

Lsfan wrote:If you are talking ammo cans for ammo storage, is that acceptable? I would’ve thought a good idea for transport, but not storage since it’s not affixed to anything. I may be wrong, but specific ammo safes are either inbuilt to a gun safe or separate units for bolting to the floor or wall.


I don't know if that was intended for me, but it would appear so according to this:
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/as ... _Sheet.pdf
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Apollo » 25 Jun 2021, 6:04 pm

Lsfan wrote:If you are talking ammo cans for ammo storage, is that acceptable? I would’ve thought a good idea for transport, but not storage since it’s not affixed to anything. I may be wrong, but specific ammo safes are either inbuilt to a gun safe or separate units for bolting to the floor or wall.


Ammo Storage in NSW doesn't need to be bolted to anything, just a lockable container ie Tool Box.

My Ammo Storage is a couple of Bunnings Sandleford Safes and a Steel Lockable Cabinet not bolted to anything. Yep, I've got a lot of ammo. Of the few inspections I have had the Officers asked what's in the small safes... reply Ammo, oh okay and not even looked or checked if they were bolted to anything which they are not, just sitting on top of my Gun Safes.

Never been asked what's in the Steel Cabinet.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Oldbloke » 25 Jun 2021, 6:31 pm

I find the requirements interesting. Police want a locked box. And inevitably this becomes a locked steel box or safe. This is great from a security angle. Unfortunately you create a bomb if you are unlucky enough to get an ignition, such as a house fire,
From a purely "safety' angle your better off with a piss weak box made of 3ply wood. A good example of NOT consulting with industry experts.

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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Lsfan » 25 Jun 2021, 7:04 pm

Yeah ok I see. Seems strange. In any case, I would think it’s best to have it secure to prevent theft simply due to the value of the ammo. My dearest ammo is 223. I can’t imagine how much value is in some of the stocks you guys have.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by MontyShooter » 25 Jun 2021, 7:49 pm

If I piled all my ammo up it would easily occupy more space than my guns. I just use all sorts of random plastic boxes that can be padlocked, and store them wherever I can find some space on shelves in the garage.

A safe inspection is just that. It's not like they are going to search your whole house to see where you might have ammo stored.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Lovey » 26 Jul 2021, 11:43 am

G'day all,
thanks to everyone for their advice so far, I really appreciate it.
I had stopped researching after reading various posts about how long a new licence takes to come through, however my photograph advice letter came through this morning :clap: .

I had a couple of safes on my shortlist

Spika SP-S2CH
Huntpro HC8, and
CMI SS5.

Apart from some minor differences in weight between the Spika and Huntpro, (93 vs 95) with the CMI being 76.
The stated capacities are 8 (Spika and Huntpro) vs 5 for the CMI,
Are they much of a muchness as far as safe's go, or is there any real stand out among them? I spoke to a local shop and he said that the Huntpro is being discontinued as the parent company makes both Huntpro and Lokaway, and is only continuing with the Lokaway brand.

Thanks again for your help,
Steve
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by niteowl » 26 Jul 2021, 12:47 pm

safe_0001 resize.jpg
safe_0001 resize.jpg (185.81 KiB) Viewed 4992 times
Can actually fit 25 and some with BIG thermals. Weight empty 1.3 T
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Harrynsw » 26 Jul 2021, 1:03 pm

If you take the bolts out of the rifles and don't have any oversized optics you will fit the specified number of rifles in the safe.
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Re: Newb gun safe questions

Post by Bello » 26 Jul 2021, 3:16 pm

Hi Mate

I have two larger lockaway safes with the digital key pad. I prefer the key pad to the key. I don't have to fumble around for keys.
These safes do have a key which enables you to open them if you forget your pin code or the key pad doesn't work.

Just be careful with gun safes, when they tell you its a ten gun safe, that applies if you don't have scopes on them. They usually don't hold as many as they state.

I haven't had any issues with my lockaway safes.

good luck :thumbsup:
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