Ammunition storage

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Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 23 Apr 2022, 6:45 pm

Gun laws state that you must store ammunition separate from your guns. My question is, what if you store ammunition in a safe with guns of a different calibre? Eg. If I have an air rifle in a safe with 223 ammo. Or even a 22 rifle in a safe with 17hmr ammo.
Any comments?
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by MontyShooter » 23 Apr 2022, 6:47 pm

Lol no.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Bills Shed » 23 Apr 2022, 6:53 pm

Seriously I think you are just poking the bear. Keep it simple. Why get into a fight that you will not win even if you are correct. Not worth the effort.
Swaging your own projectiles is the ultimate in flexibility.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by MontyShooter » 23 Apr 2022, 6:56 pm

Just because it's not designed for that calibre doesn't mean it won't go bang
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 23 Apr 2022, 7:15 pm

Well I was actually being serious because I have 2 safes, one with an ammo compartment and one without. The ammo compartment is full and my other safe at present has an air rifle in it only.
Are you telling me I could get done for having ammo (not pellets) stored with an air rifle?
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by bladeracer » 23 Apr 2022, 7:21 pm

Lsfan wrote:Well I was actually being serious because I have 2 safes, one with an ammo compartment and one without. The ammo compartment is full and my other safe at present has an air rifle in it only.
Are you telling me I could get done for having ammo (not pellets) stored with an air rifle?


Letter of the law says yes.
I don't believe it says anything about actual chamberings, only that you can't store "ammunition" with your firearms, any ammunition.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by rc42 » 23 Apr 2022, 7:25 pm

The legislation states that ammunition can't be stored with firearms, the ability to break that down into only restricting ammunition which is usable in the firearms that it is stored with would require case law from somebody successfully defending a prosecution.

If you run the risk it could be you, if so I wish you good luck, personally I'd buy another safe or other lockable container that meets ammo storage requirements in your state and leave somebody else to spend tens of thousands on that court case.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 23 Apr 2022, 7:25 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Well I was actually being serious because I have 2 safes, one with an ammo compartment and one without. The ammo compartment is full and my other safe at present has an air rifle in it only.
Are you telling me I could get done for having ammo (not pellets) stored with an air rifle?


Letter of the law says yes.
I don't believe it says anything about actual chamberings, only that you can't store "ammunition" with your firearms, any ammunition.

Fair enough. I guess that's my point. It maybe the law but I can't see how my scenario would be cause for any concern if the rifle cannot be used to discharge the ammunition.
After just checking the requirements, seems all I need is any locked box inside the safe and ammo can be stored that way. Can be any old lockable ammo box or cash tin. Doesn't say it needs to be affixed to or part of the safe.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by bladeracer » 23 Apr 2022, 7:34 pm

Lsfan wrote:Fair enough. I guess that's my point. It maybe the law but I can't see how my scenario would be cause for any concern if the rifle cannot be used to discharge the ammunition.
After just checking the requirements, seems all I need is any locked box inside the safe and ammo can be stored that way. Can be any old lockable ammo box or cash tin. Doesn't say it needs to be affixed to or part of the safe.


Personally, I would suggest not storing any ammo in the same safe as any firearm anyway, store your ammo somewhere else. Only WA requires it to be stored in a safe, just put it in a lockable cupboard or crate.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Blr243 » 23 Apr 2022, 7:41 pm

Sell the air rifle. It’s useless anyway. Problem solved
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 23 Apr 2022, 7:48 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Fair enough. I guess that's my point. It maybe the law but I can't see how my scenario would be cause for any concern if the rifle cannot be used to discharge the ammunition.
After just checking the requirements, seems all I need is any locked box inside the safe and ammo can be stored that way. Can be any old lockable ammo box or cash tin. Doesn't say it needs to be affixed to or part of the safe.


Personally, I would suggest not storing any ammo in the same safe as any firearm anyway, store your ammo somewhere else. Only WA requires it to be stored in a safe, just put it in a lockable cupboard or crate.

I suppose i could do that. I have lockable cabinets in my garage. Problem is how many keys do you need to carry around? I may get a small combination safe or cash tin for the small quantity. Of ammo I have.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 23 Apr 2022, 7:52 pm

Blr243 wrote:Sell the air rifle. It’s useless anyway. Problem solved

Actually I'm thinking of getting another one. My purpose is range use, I'm not a hunter. Although if it was legal to use in my backyard, I'd use it on the noisey minors and at night on bats.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by bladeracer » 23 Apr 2022, 7:57 pm

Lsfan wrote:
Blr243 wrote:Sell the air rifle. It’s useless anyway. Problem solved


Actually I'm thinking of getting another one. My purpose is range use, I'm not a hunter. Although if it was legal to use in my backyard, I'd use it on the noisey minors and at night on bats.


I have two air-rifles but they're really just for fun and practicing on silhouettes.

Why would you want to shoot bats? Are they a nuisance?
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 23 Apr 2022, 8:05 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Lsfan wrote:
Blr243 wrote:Sell the air rifle. It’s useless anyway. Problem solved


Actually I'm thinking of getting another one. My purpose is range use, I'm not a hunter. Although if it was legal to use in my backyard, I'd use it on the noisey minors and at night on bats.


I have two air-rifles but they're really just for fun and practicing on silhouettes.

Why would you want to shoot bats? Are they a nuisance?

I really like the diana stormrider with timber stock and its dirt cheap. Under $400 plus has a magazine and is a pcp.
Regarding bats, yes at night they screech and hang around in gumtrees dropping black sh.. everywhere. Theyre not so bad at present where i am in western sydney but have been in plague proportions In Hyde Park Sydney before.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Die Judicii » 23 Apr 2022, 9:21 pm

If you only have a small quantity of ammo as you say,,,, The answer has already been posted re (in a separate locked container)
Problem solved :thumbsup:

What gets locked away where,,, and with what,,, is sometimes an entirely different can of worms.
I don't know about NSW legislation (you'd have to check)
But,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Qld says f/arms must be stored/locked with the bolt removed.
So,, many people take the bolts out and lock them away in the ammo compartment.

But the catch that not many people realize is that the Qld regulations actually classify a rifle "bolt" as a Firearm.
Therefore you cannot put a bolt in the same box/compartment as the ammo. (nearly as ridiculous as some WA regs)

I was unaware of this until our recent local cop (a good one) actually found the specific wording about bolts being classified as a firearm,,, and
showed me. It is very obscure and does not appear in most publications,,,,, however he did find it.

As always there are contradictions and grey areas that you will be held accountable for if taken to task.
And, to prove my point here,,,,,,,,, I quote just one section from a notice that was posted to me from Weapons Licensing Qld.

Quote > "Section 60 of the Weapons Regulation 1996 (Qld) provides minimum requirements for safe storage of firearms.
For category A, B, and C firearms.
> Pargraph (8) Firearms must be unloaded and the bolt must be removed or action broken for storage. The bolt is a major component part and is
subject to same storage requirements as the firearm and can be stored with the firearm."
(being "subject to same storage requirements as the firearm" would indicate that it should not be stored with ammunition)

I wish I had asked him to print off the specific wording of where the bolt itself is classified as a firearm and must not be stored with ammunition,,,,,,,,, so that I could literally quote that as well.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 23 Apr 2022, 9:46 pm

Die Judicii wrote:If you only have a small quantity of ammo as you say,,,, The answer has already been posted re (in a separate locked container)
Problem solved :thumbsup:

What gets locked away where,,, and with what,,, is sometimes an entirely different can of worms.
I don't know about NSW legislation (you'd have to check)
But,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Qld says f/arms must be stored/locked with the bolt removed.
So,, many people take the bolts out and lock them away in the ammo compartment.

But the catch that not many people realize is that the Qld regulations actually classify a rifle "bolt" as a Firearm.
Therefore you cannot put a bolt in the same box/compartment as the ammo. (nearly as ridiculous as some WA regs)

I was unaware of this until our recent local cop (a good one) actually found the specific wording about bolts being classified as a firearm,,, and
showed me. It is very obscure and does not appear in most publications,,,,, however he did find it.

As always there are contradictions and grey areas that you will be held accountable for if taken to task.
And, to prove my point here,,,,,,,,, I quote just one section from a notice that was posted to me from Weapons Licensing Qld.

Quote > "Section 60 of the Weapons Regulation 1996 (Qld) provides minimum requirements for safe storage of firearms.
For category A, B, and C firearms.
> Pargraph (8) Firearms must be unloaded and the bolt must be removed or action broken for storage. The bolt is a major component part and is
subject to same storage requirements as the firearm and can be stored with the firearm."
(being "subject to same storage requirements as the firearm" would indicate that it should not be stored with ammunition)

I wish I had asked him to print off the specific wording of where the bolt itself is classified as a firearm and must not be stored with ammunition,,,,,,,,, so that I could literally quote that as well.

I have bolts removed and not with ammo but just in a separate box.
Like you say about ammo, just keep in a separate locked container. I can do that and keep that locked container inside the rifle safe. If you can buy rifle safes with built in ammo compartments, why cant I put a loose locked compartment in there, such as a cash tin?
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Fionn » 23 Apr 2022, 9:56 pm

Lsfan wrote:Gun laws state that you must store ammunition separate from your guns. My question is, what if you store ammunition in a safe with guns of a different calibre? Eg. If I have an air rifle in a safe with 223 ammo. Or even a 22 rifle in a safe with 17hmr ammo.
Any comments?


In Victoria you can store it like this, although I would advise against it.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 23 Apr 2022, 10:11 pm

Fionn wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Gun laws state that you must store ammunition separate from your guns. My question is, what if you store ammunition in a safe with guns of a different calibre? Eg. If I have an air rifle in a safe with 223 ammo. Or even a 22 rifle in a safe with 17hmr ammo.
Any comments?


In Victoria you can store it like this, although I would advise against it.

OK. Yes I was just curious because logically it is safe. But I will keep it separate anyway to avoid any potential issues with the law.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Die Judicii » 23 Apr 2022, 10:25 pm

Lsfan wrote:
Fionn wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Gun laws state that you must store ammunition separate from your guns. My question is, what if you store ammunition in a safe with guns of a different calibre? Eg. If I have an air rifle in a safe with 223 ammo. Or even a 22 rifle in a safe with 17hmr ammo.
Any comments?


In Victoria you can store it like this, although I would advise against it.

OK. Yes I was just curious because logically it is safe. But I will keep it separate anyway to avoid any potential issues with the law.


Pardon my mirth,,,,,,,,,,,, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :lol: :lol: :lol:
Logic has sweet F**k all to do with the law and legislation in more cases than not.
A bit like common sense,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Pardon ???? What is that these days ? :unknown:
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Peter988 » 24 Apr 2022, 8:20 am

I’ve had the police do rifle/safe checks three times over the past twenty years. Their interest is in confirming you have the listed firearms and that they are stored securely. At no time have they asked if there was ammo in the house. Just keep ammo elsewhere and they won’t be any the wiser. As far as they know - there is no ammo in the house.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by No1Mk3 » 24 Apr 2022, 4:51 pm

Peter988 wrote:I’ve had the police do rifle/safe checks three times over the past twenty years. Their interest is in confirming you have the listed firearms and that they are stored securely. At no time have they asked if there was ammo in the house. Just keep ammo elsewhere and they won’t be any the wiser. As far as they know - there is no ammo in the house.

G'day Peter,
Your experience is not everybodies, and cannot be extrapolated as such. I have been inspected about the same number of times over a slightly longer time frame and in each event I have been asked to show my ammo storage method and once was asked to open the lockers so they could check what type of ammo I had. Never assume all coppers will be the same, store safely, avoid hassles, Cheers.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by MontyShooter » 24 Apr 2022, 7:07 pm

Bit weird to check for the type of ammo. I mean what type of ammo can't you have...
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Fionn » 24 Apr 2022, 7:52 pm

Lsfan wrote:
Fionn wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Gun laws state that you must store ammunition separate from your guns. My question is, what if you store ammunition in a safe with guns of a different calibre? Eg. If I have an air rifle in a safe with 223 ammo. Or even a 22 rifle in a safe with 17hmr ammo.
Any comments?


In Victoria you can store it like this, although I would advise against it.

OK. Yes I was just curious because logically it is safe. But I will keep it separate anyway to avoid any potential issues with the law.


Just checked the NSW requirements and you can keep it stored like Victoria. ie an air rifle in a safe with 223 ammo.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 24 Apr 2022, 8:05 pm

Fionn wrote:
Lsfan wrote:
Fionn wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Gun laws state that you must store ammunition separate from your guns. My question is, what if you store ammunition in a safe with guns of a different calibre? Eg. If I have an air rifle in a safe with 223 ammo. Or even a 22 rifle in a safe with 17hmr ammo.
Any comments?


In Victoria you can store it like this, although I would advise against it.

OK. Yes I was just curious because logically it is safe. But I will keep it separate anyway to avoid any potential issues with the law.


Just checked the NSW requirements and you can keep it stored like Victoria. ie an air rifle in a safe with 223 ammo.

Well that's good. You must've read it more closely than I did. Finally some logic.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Fionn » 24 Apr 2022, 8:18 pm

Lsfan wrote:Well that's good. You must've read it more closely than I did. Finally some logic.


From the Act

Firearms Act 1996 section 40(d) any ammunition for the firearm must be stored in a locked container of a type approved by the Commissioner and that is kept separate from the receptacle containing any such firearm.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 24 Apr 2022, 9:05 pm

Fionn wrote:
Lsfan wrote:Well that's good. You must've read it more closely than I did. Finally some logic.


From the Act

Firearms Act 1996 section 40(d) any ammunition for the firearm must be stored in a locked container of a type approved by the Commissioner and that is kept separate from the receptacle containing any such firearm.

I'm not so convinced by that. I know it says "the" firearm so you could argue that I'm not keeping ammunition for "the" firearm in the same receptacle, but then it says "any such firearm". What is any such firearm to the police? They could be referring to cat A or cat B. It could be interpreted that an air rifle and rimfire or centrefire are not all the same such rifles but again it's a risk.
I think I'll just keep the ammo separate despite my personal opinion and logic.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Fionn » 24 Apr 2022, 9:25 pm

Although legally you can as the legal reading of this is quite clear.

Any such firearm means "the firearm" referred to in the section, not other firearms.

The reason I advise against it is that it relies on the officers technical legal knowledge of the Act, which maybe lacking.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Lsfan » 24 Apr 2022, 9:28 pm

Fionn wrote:Although legally you can as the legal reading of this is quite clear.

Any such firearm means "the firearm" referred to in the section, not other firearms.

The reason I advise against it is that it relies on the officers technical legal knowledge of the Act, which maybe lacking.

Yes I agree. Thanks for the advice.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by No1Mk3 » 24 Apr 2022, 9:49 pm

MontyShooter wrote:Bit weird to check for the type of ammo. I mean what type of ammo can't you have...

G'day MontyShooter,
The Act specifies that you may not possess ammo for a Class of firearm you are not licenced for, I suspect the cop was just being nosy as I have licences that would cover all forms of small arms ammo. These days with the advent of a number of firearms chambered in pistol calibres the Law is rapidly becoming obsolete, but in the past it has been used to prosecute A/B holders for possession of handgun ammo, and even today a Cat A/B holder with a .45 GAP round could lose their guns and be prosecuted, Cheers.
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Re: Ammunition storage

Post by Peter988 » 24 Apr 2022, 9:50 pm

To follow on from my other thoughts. I would simply keep an empty locked container in another cupboard and say “when I have ammo it’s stored in there - but at the moment I have none.” It’s not as though they can go looking.
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