Folding stocks

[Shootermick]

A while ago I looked at putting a folding stock on my 10/22. But it wouldn’t make the 750mm minimum length when folded to be be legal here in Victoria, so I didn’t do it. But looking at the used gun sites, there are often rifles coming up for sale in Vic with folders that wouldn’t make that legal length either. What’s the go? Do some people just take the risk and put one on hoping they don’t get caught out at their next safe inspection??

[bladeracer]

A while ago I looked at putting a folding stock on my 10/22. But it wouldn’t make the 750mm minimum length when folded to be be legal here in Victoria, so I didn’t do it. But looking at the used gun sites, there are often rifles coming up for sale in Vic with folders that wouldn’t make that legal length either. What’s the go? Do some people just take the risk and put one on hoping they don’t get caught out at their next safe inspection??

My Ruger American Rimfires are too short with a folder so I have to be aware not to fit one to those. The centrefires are a little longer and are fine. Do you have an example of one being advertised that would be under length here?

[womble]

Might just scrape it in by a bees dick https://diggertactical.com.au/products/ruger-10-22-ati-folding-stock-fde-colour

I think QLD has a shorter overall length, because there’s bull pup semi auto 22’s I’ve seen also

And then theres interpretation. Is overall length the folded length ?
Never found anything in the act myself , interesting quandary

[bladeracer]

Might just scrape it in by a bees dick https://diggertactical.com.au/products/ruger-10-22-ati-folding-stock-fde-colour

I think QLD has a shorter overall length, because there’s bull pup semi auto 22’s I’ve seen also

18.5" Ruger 10/22 is 662mm with that folder according to http://blog.mountsplus.com/ati-ruger-10-22-strikeforce-stock-review/ - way under the 750mm minimum for Victoria.

This site says they're 680mm folded.
https://ukvarminting.com/topic/15565-ati-strikeforce-folding-stocks-for-ruger-1022/

Does the length restriction still apply on CatC firearms?

[bladeracer]

A while ago I looked at putting a folding stock on my 10/22. But it wouldn’t make the 750mm minimum length when folded to be be legal here in Victoria, so I didn’t do it. But looking at the used gun sites, there are often rifles coming up for sale in Vic with folders that wouldn’t make that legal length either. What’s the go? Do some people just take the risk and put one on hoping they don’t get caught out at their next safe inspection??

I would contact DiggerTactical and ask them, if they're selling them they must know if they're legal.

[womble]

Haven’t found anything as yet cat c, but cat d possibly.
And those eligible for c mostly go straight to d.
Did find it’s illegal to import a folding or detachable stock, but interstate would be fine if unrestricted in your own state.
The plot thickens.

[womble]

Nope Qld is 750.

[bladeracer]

Haven’t found anything as yet cat c, but cat d possibly.
And those eligible for c mostly go straight to d.
Did find it’s illegal to import a folding or detachable stock, but interstate would be fine if unrestricted in your own state.
The plot thickens.

People that are eligible for CatC are rarely eligible for CatD - CatD generally requires culling animals to be your primary occupation, with contracts to prove it. CatC is open to many property owners.

Not illegal, they just require B709 import permits.
I imported one of my folders, but did it through Brownells to avoid the paperwork.

[womble]

Gotcha, just border force or whatever it was listed as prohibited. But yes b709 for prohibited.
I’ll just ask lgs next time I’m in.

[Shootermick]

Might just scrape it in by a bees dick https://diggertactical.com.au/products/ruger-10-22-ati-folding-stock-fde-colour

I think QLD has a shorter overall length, because there’s bull pup semi auto 22’s I’ve seen also

And then theres interpretation. Is overall length the folded length ?
Never found anything in the act myself , interesting quandary

I emailed LRD and they replied saying that it is 750mm total length in the folded/shortest position, here in Vic anyway, not sure about the other states. The folder I was going to buy was through Cleavers, they told me it would be legal, but I think I’d trust LRD more than a salesman. Not sure if category has anything to do with it, but I’d assume not.??

[Shootermick]

A while ago I looked at putting a folding stock on my 10/22. But it wouldn’t make the 750mm minimum length when folded to be be legal here in Victoria, so I didn’t do it. But looking at the used gun sites, there are often rifles coming up for sale in Vic with folders that wouldn’t make that legal length either. What’s the go? Do some people just take the risk and put one on hoping they don’t get caught out at their next safe inspection??

My Ruger American Rimfires are too short with a folder so I have to be aware not to fit one to those. The centrefires are a little longer and are fine. Do you have an example of one being advertised that would be under length here?

https://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/1181 ... ified.html

My assumption is that this wouldn’t be 750mm.

[bladeracer]

A while ago I looked at putting a folding stock on my 10/22. But it wouldn’t make the 750mm minimum length when folded to be be legal here in Victoria, so I didn’t do it. But looking at the used gun sites, there are often rifles coming up for sale in Vic with folders that wouldn’t make that legal length either. What’s the go? Do some people just take the risk and put one on hoping they don’t get caught out at their next safe inspection??

My Ruger American Rimfires are too short with a folder so I have to be aware not to fit one to those. The centrefires are a little longer and are fine. Do you have an example of one being advertised that would be under length here?

https://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/1181 ... ified.html

My assumption is that this wouldn’t be 750mm.

If it's the standard 22" barrel it's fine, same as my 22" Ruger Americans. 20" would be close and anything shorter would almost certainly go under 750mm with most folder designs. It does depend somewhat on how bulky the folder mount is as that adds some length to the basic action.

[bladeracer]

I emailed LRD and they replied saying that it is 750mm total length in the folded/shortest position, here in Vic anyway, not sure about the other states. The folder I was going to buy was through Cleavers, they told me it would be legal, but I think I’d trust LRD more than a salesman. Not sure if category has anything to do with it, but I’d assume not.??

Yes, they told me the same when I built the bullpup chassis for my Rugers. We have a minimum barrel length and a minimum overall length to comply with.

[bladeracer]

The action on the 10/22 is quite short, but if you bought a 22" barrel for it it may well be okay with the folder, and the barrels are an easy swap. You could use it with the folder and the longer barrel and swap in the shorter barrel when you don't need the folder.

My Umarex 10/22 air-rifle should be the same length as a genuine 10/22 if you need a measurement.

[Shootermick]

The action on the 10/22 is quite short, but if you bought a 22" barrel for it it may well be okay with the folder, and the barrels are an easy swap. You could use it will the folder and the longer barrel and swap in the shorter barrel when you don't need the folder.

My Umarex 10/22 air-rifle should be the same length as a genuine 10/22 if you need a measurement.

My 10/22 has the 18.5” barrel. The Samson stock I liked the look of at Cleavers would make the rifle fall short by more than the extra 3.5” gained from a 22” barrel. I forget exactly how far short, but it was probably close to 5-6”. I emailed Samson at the time to confirm measurements, and it wasn’t going to work. I’ve since deleted the email, so can’t tell you exact measurements.
I guess it might be ok in some other State’s, but not all.

[bladeracer]

A 16" 10/22 Compact is only 34" (864mm) overall, which is pretty short already, the 18.5" carbine is 37" (940mm) overall. With the 18" barrel my Ruger American Compact is 908mm (35.75") in the original stock, but in the MDT chassis with adjustable stock it's significantly shorter when it's telescoped. I'd have to measure how short it is but probably just under 800mm I would guess. With the iron sights I actually prefer the sight picture with it telescoped all the way in, but the length of pull is very short. Maybe just order a 16" barrel and the Compact stock for yours as that knocks three-inches off it.

[womble]

I think Northern Territory is 700 mm. Which would explain cleavers.
Their cat d notes firearms under 700 https://www.pfes.nt.gov.au/police/firearmsweapons/firearms-categories
And seen a couple 7615 police models with folding stocks on gun sales sites in NT

[womble]

Somewhat dissatisfied tbh. Could argue overall length defines maximum or extreme.
What happens in say 5 years from now when they restrict overall length of a picnic blanket for example. Because it offends people who identify as flowerpots.
Arguably a folded up picnic blanket is still a 3x3 picnic blanket.

Alternate argument, somewhere in the act the overall length includes buttstock. But I gave up reading the act because I have to mind my blood pressure

[No1Mk3]

[quote="womble"]Somewhat dissatisfied tbh. Could argue overall length defines maximum or extreme.
What happens in say 5 years from now when they restrict overall length of a picnic blanket for example. Because it offends people who identify as flowerpots.
Arguably a folded up picnic blanket is still a 3x3 picnic blanket.

Alternate argument, somewhere in the act the overall length includes buttstock. But I gave up reading the act because I have to mind my blood pressure[/quote
]
No, buttstock is not mentioned in the Act regarding overall length, it refers to a length being measured "parallel to the barrel" and that applies to shortening an existing longarm under S.134 Sub.1 to no less than 75cm, which confuses many people into believing this is the minimum length of a longarm as defined, which it is not. The Act defines a longarm as being over 65cm (S.3).
PS: I take pills for my blood pressure, I'm not on Prozac yet,

[bladeracer]

No, buttstock is not mentioned in the Act regarding overall length, it refers to a length being measured "parallel to the barrel" and that applies to shortening an existing longarm under S.134 Sub.1 to no less than 75cm, which confuses many people into believing this is the minimum length of a longarm as defined, which it is not. The Act defines a longarm as being over 65cm (S.3).
PS: I take pills for my blood pressure, I'm not on Prozac yet,

I think it uses the same veribiage regarding barrel length - 400mm minimum length but you can't shorten a barrel to less than 500mm.

[womble]

Ok gotcha. Can not shorten a 400mm barrel to less than 500mm.

[womble]

Somewhat dissatisfied tbh. Could argue overall length defines maximum or extreme.
What happens in say 5 years from now when they restrict overall length of a picnic blanket for example. Because it offends people who identify as flowerpots.
Arguably a folded up picnic blanket is still a 3x3 picnic blanket.

Alternate argument, somewhere in the act the overall length includes buttstock. But I gave up reading the act because I have to mind my blood pressure[/quote
]
No, buttstock is not mentioned in the Act regarding overall length, it refers to a length being measured "parallel to the barrel" and that applies to shortening an existing longarm under S.134 Sub.1 to no less than 75cm, which confuses many people into believing this is the minimum length of a longarm as defined, which it is not. The Act defines a longarm as being over 65cm (S.3).
PS: I take pills for my blood pressure, I'm not on Prozac yet,

Thanks, great info. I will go forth into the act again.

[bladeracer]

Ok gotcha. Can not shorten a 400mm barrel to less than 500mm.

You can own a rifle with a barrel 400mm to 500mm, but you can't shorten a longer barrel to less than 500mm.
My JW21 would be an awesome pack rifle if I could shorten it from 20" to 16", but legally I can't.

[Shootermick]

Somewhat dissatisfied tbh. Could argue overall length defines maximum or extreme.
What happens in say 5 years from now when they restrict overall length of a picnic blanket for example. Because it offends people who identify as flowerpots.
Arguably a folded up picnic blanket is still a 3x3 picnic blanket.

Alternate argument, somewhere in the act the overall length includes buttstock. But I gave up reading the act because I have to mind my blood pressure[/quote
]
No, buttstock is not mentioned in the Act regarding overall length, it refers to a length being measured "parallel to the barrel" and that applies to shortening an existing longarm under S.134 Sub.1 to no less than 75cm, which confuses many people into believing this is the minimum length of a longarm as defined, which it is not. The Act defines a longarm as being over 65cm (S.3).
PS: I take pills for my blood pressure, I'm not on Prozac yet,

So does that mean that a factory longarm off the shelf at 65cm is legal, but one that has been shortened, in this case with a folding stock, under 75cm but is still over 65cm is illegal?

[womble]

Somewhat dissatisfied tbh. Could argue overall length defines maximum or extreme.
What happens in say 5 years from now when they restrict overall length of a picnic blanket for example. Because it offends people who identify as flowerpots.
Arguably a folded up picnic blanket is still a 3x3 picnic blanket.

Alternate argument, somewhere in the act the overall length includes buttstock. But I gave up reading the act because I have to mind my blood pressure[/quote
]
No, buttstock is not mentioned in the Act regarding overall length, it refers to a length being measured "parallel to the barrel" and that applies to shortening an existing longarm under S.134 Sub.1 to no less than 75cm, which confuses many people into believing this is the minimum length of a longarm as defined, which it is not. The Act defines a longarm as being over 65cm (S.3).
PS: I take pills for my blood pressure, I'm not on Prozac yet,

I believe this will rule out fitting a folding stock to a firearm resulting in overall length less than 750.
As you’ve modified it’s original length.
If you were to buy a firearm manufactured under 750 with a folding stock standard, that should be fine.
I think you’re in murky waters buying customised from dealers or private sale.
I think that’s the safest viewpoint. A dealer like cleavers could argue otherwise because ‘existing long arm means what exactly. but I’d anticipate LRD to overrule them.

[bladeracer]

So does that mean that a factory longarm off the shelf at 65cm is legal, but one that has been shortened, in this case with a folding stock, under 75cm but is still over 65cm is illegal?

I think it would be, but do they allow anything that short to be sold here?

[bladeracer]

I believe this will rule out fitting a folding stock to a firearm resulting in overall length less than 750.
As you’ve modified it’s original length.
If you were to buy a firearm manufactured under 750 with a folding stock standard, that should be fine.
I think you’re in murky waters buying customised from dealers or private sale.
I think that’s the safest viewpoint. A dealer like cleavers could argue otherwise because ‘existing long arm means what exactly. but I’d anticipate LRD to overrule them.

That is my read of it as well, that's why I don't put my folders on the carbines.

[womble]

So does that mean that a factory longarm off the shelf at 65cm is legal, but one that has been shortened, in this case with a folding stock, under 75cm but is still over 65cm is illegal?

I think it would be, but do they allow anything that short to be sold here?

They do but barrels are under 400mm.

Alfa proj comes to mind with 12 inch barrel
Here’s another. https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Products.aspx?Category=Rifles&Brand=428

It’s like even the loopholes in the act are rigged to explode your brain

[bladeracer]

I think it would be, but do they allow anything that short to be sold here?

They do but barrels are under 400mm.

Alfa proj comes to mind with 12 inch barrel
Here’s another. https://www.cleaverfirearms.com/Products.aspx?Category=Rifles&Brand=428

It’s like even the loopholes in the act are rigged to explode your brain

I meant here in Victoria, I don't think we can have those can we?

[womble]

I don’t think so but it only says no to nsw, which is fine because I hate nsw.
Unless the abnormally ridiculous muzzle brake thing makes up the difference. But it’s detachable so i really think I’ve had enough internet for today.