Sign of the times

[bigrich]

My take is rich very powerful people, and I dont mean some shady cadre of fellas wearing dark robes and doing sacrifices to satan, I mean just big business itself corrupted or got out of control and thats responsible for a lot our checks and balances failing. Currencies being sold to other countries, powergrids going private, market gouging, manufacture being given away, we are also now breaking all the rules we put down after the great depression and stock crash of 87 regards short selling and complex derivatives and every other shakey financial product. Its open slather again.

The whole generation vs generation thing is yet another distraction. You blame me and I blame you, while we both get poorer and the fellas at the top go on Ellen bragging they are hundred billionaires. FFS . I was never a conspiracy whacko, most of my career was either military or government work. But how much BS has to occur before you need to start asking questions? or do we wait until the cost of eggs, a loaf of bread and mens deodorant double again to $20 each?

The other thing is this is worldwide. People arguing labor vs liberal , albanese, resource policies when the other 30x 1st world countries are doing exactly the same thing. Its like ignoring the elephant in the room, 30 other elephants in fact

you are spot on mick , i agree whole heartedly .

in a few more years when a loaf of bread is $15 , they'll probably have us start calling each other "comrade" ya know there are a few similarities to the era just before the french revolution and our current social situation , ignorant elites getting richer while the poor get poorer . the current housing and cost of living status is a disgrace . "vive le revolution..."

Is that dry humour again?
You really can't compare then with now. . Our living std is waayy better.

However, I agree that the trickle up effect ( or is that flood up) is definitely in full swing. And getting worse.
I've talked about this many times over the years. Often laughed at.
The money is now very concentrated, the rich are getting richer the poor, poorer.

The US is much worse, than here, there is a gulf between the upper and poor, lower class.

Happened in the UK in the abt the 1850s, too.

But is it ?? Maybe for people like yourself that lucked onto the " capital gains gravy train " .. the other 98% of the population are hurting

mate i think personal responsibility with life choices is relevant for this discussion . i grew up in a single parent family in a blue collar/ public housing area . dirt poor . i 've worked hard as a sheet metal tradie most of my life , not a high paid trade by any means . bought a house when i was 28 under the first home owner scheme . when i bought it 1/3 of my meagre wage went on repayments , but i worked on weekends doing mobile rust repairs on cars and fabrication work for extra cash . i used my initiative, lived within my means and paid off the house . after all the struggle , hard work and using my head , you seem to think i was born with a silver spoon and enjoyed some kind of "gravy train " ride . that's a bit of a naive view buddy. a good mate of mine bought his house just over 3 years ago . he's single , very good with his money and worked as a truck driver amongst other things. prior to that he boarded with a couple who both work, make a good combined income . but they spend a lot of their money on booze , smokes, and frivolous extras for the missus like new shoes and getting her hair done . and they just can't understand how ol mate started with nothing and bought a house and their still renting . yes times are harder, almost impossible to get ahead . but blaming it on the older generation of australians instead of the halfwit politicians running this country is a cop out in my opinion

JMHO , yours may differ

[Wapiti]

Yes, it was the FUDDS that sold us all out, and the cowards that had to suddenly clench their sphincters at the thought of resisting all this rubbish since.

No different from the internet heroes who hold back on everything online whether here, farcebook or elsewhere, because their lack of self-esteem and belief in themselves ensures they stay in some popular faux-existence. Desperate for their false online popularity.
Labor had all these laws drafted even before that Howard clown knee-jerked his decisions on us, so the fools who still want to blame him from so long ago are just that, uninformed and wasted energy. It is the evil Duopoly that want to control all aspects of your lives.

And for those who would write-off Australia by saying we would wither and die on-the-vine if we actually puckered up and told the rest of the world to GAGF until they come back crawling for our expertise and gear, and start putting Aussies first, well sorry, you are part of the problem. That's bullsh*t. This is why we are where we are now, that's undesputed.
This country could even exist totally on it's own without the rest of the world, just like the "united" world does now. Although it's not united, it seeks to take everything from you, assisted by the cowards who vote and and those they put there to represent you. And then, keep whining learnedly about.

And, yes as has been said by the spot-on opinion above by Noneyabussiness, it was the FUDDS who sat down to p*ss in 1996 and the same cowards in 2003 that set the precedents for what continues to happen to our freedoms. I was a part of that too. I was ostracised from my club committee at SSAA Belmont for trying to campaign for complete "NO" on all that bastardry. And I will never forgive these cowards for something that could've been beaten. Simple. And for those who think that my faith in that was misguided, you are the problem so stop whinging because how's the soft resistance working? Yeah, failure. But just keep your heads down.

[bigrich]

"But is it ?? Maybe for people like yourself that lucked onto the " capital gains gravy train " .. the other 98% of the population are hurting"

How wrong can you be?
I didn't luck onto anything, I worked for it. Almost 4 years at night school whilst working full time and raising young family.
I made simple decisions like not eating out or buying coffee every day, or the latest car or furniture. Cut lunch every day for close to 50years.
I didn't nuy a new house, I bought a very cheap one and after working and saving up graded to where we now live. In the burbs.
I don't own several, just our family home..
I'm certainly not in the top 2% wealth wise.


I don't think people had a particularly high living std in the1800s. No sewerage, no running water sfa medical. Comparatively our living std is very high.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

i'm with you OB. i cook homecooked meals , make sanga's for work everyday , i rarely buy take away food , i buy the discounted stock from my local IGA , and i rarely ever buy bottled water . that's a joke IMHO i started out with the most basic of houses, i built the garage into a third bedroom , yes that's correct , i started out with a two bedroom house with a garage cause it was the cheapest option . and the only way i got into that was fudging my income to qualify.

i guess it's easier to point the finger for some these days OB , instead of using your head and working hard . there's still high paid jobs in the mines and civil road works out in regional areas for those that put in the effort . myself , i've got HR truck , excavator and unlimited heavy forklift licensing , besides my trade certificate . makes me very experienced and very employable . none of that was given to me , i worked for it

ahhh, the younger generation hey .......

[bigrich]

Yes, it was the FUDDS that sold us all out, and the cowards that had to suddenly clench their sphincters at the thought of resisting all this rubbish since.

No different from the internet heroes who hold back on everything online whether here, farcebook or elsewhere, because their lack of self-esteem and belief in themselves ensures they stay in some popular faux-existence. Desperate for their false online popularity.
Labor had all these laws drafted even before that Howard clown knee-jerked his decisions on us, so the fools who still want to blame him from so long ago are just that, uninformed and wasted energy. It is the evil Duopoly that want to control all aspects of your lives.

And for those who would write-off Australia by saying we would wither and die on-the-vine if we actually puckered up and told the rest of the world to GAGF until they come back crawling for our expertise and gear, and start putting Aussies first, well sorry, you are part of the problem. That's bullsh*t. This is why we are where we are now, that's undesputed.
This country could even exist totally on it's own without the rest of the world, just like the "united" world does now. Although it's not united, it seeks to take everything from you, assisted by the cowards who vote and and those they put there to represent you. And then, keep whining learnedly about.

And, yes as has been said by the spot-on opinion above, it was the FUDDS who sat down to p*ss in 1996 and the same cowards in 2003 that set the precedents for what continues to happen to our freedoms. I was a part of that too. I was ostracised from my club committee at SSAA Belmont for trying to campaign for complete "NO" on all that bastardry. And I will never forgive these cowards for something that could've been beaten. Simple. And for those who think that my faith in that was misguided, you are the problem so stop whinging because how's the soft resistance working? Yeah, failure. But just keep your heads down.

your a rare ozzie these days mate , good on ya for trying

"UP AUSTRALIA"

[Wapiti]

Yes, it was the FUDDS that sold us all out, and the cowards that had to suddenly clench their sphincters at the thought of resisting all this rubbish since.

No different from the internet heroes who hold back on everything online whether here, farcebook or elsewhere, because their lack of self-esteem and belief in themselves ensures they stay in some popular faux-existence. Desperate for their false online popularity.
Labor had all these laws drafted even before that Howard clown knee-jerked his decisions on us, so the fools who still want to blame him from so long ago are just that, uninformed and wasted energy. It is the evil Duopoly that want to control all aspects of your lives.

And for those who would write-off Australia by saying we would wither and die on-the-vine if we actually puckered up and told the rest of the world to GAGF until they come back crawling for our expertise and gear, and start putting Aussies first, well sorry, you are part of the problem. That's bullsh*t. This is why we are where we are now, that's undesputed.
This country could even exist totally on it's own without the rest of the world, just like the "united" world does now. Although it's not united, it seeks to take everything from you, assisted by the cowards who vote and and those they put there to represent you. And then, keep whining learnedly about.

And, yes as has been said by the spot-on opinion above, it was the FUDDS who sat down to p*ss in 1996 and the same cowards in 2003 that set the precedents for what continues to happen to our freedoms. I was a part of that too. I was ostracised from my club committee at SSAA Belmont for trying to campaign for complete "NO" on all that bastardry. And I will never forgive these cowards for something that could've been beaten. Simple. And for those who think that my faith in that was misguided, you are the problem so stop whinging because how's the soft resistance working? Yeah, failure. But just keep your heads down.

your a rare ozzie these days mate , good on ya for trying

"UP AUSTRALIA"

Mate, how else but to try and get people to bloody think? I'm not here to be liked, that would be pathetic. Maybe it's pointless.

If I had the give-up and take it up the @rse attitudes of so many, I would not enjoy the things I have and do now, and the only things holding me back have EVER been others and their attitudes. But that just doesn't have to be the way it is, for everyone.

The only thing holding us all back is within us all. Not singly, but collectively.

[bigrich]

Yes, it was the FUDDS that sold us all out, and the cowards that had to suddenly clench their sphincters at the thought of resisting all this rubbish since.

No different from the internet heroes who hold back on everything online whether here, farcebook or elsewhere, because their lack of self-esteem and belief in themselves ensures they stay in some popular faux-existence. Desperate for their false online popularity.
Labor had all these laws drafted even before that Howard clown knee-jerked his decisions on us, so the fools who still want to blame him from so long ago are just that, uninformed and wasted energy. It is the evil Duopoly that want to control all aspects of your lives.

And for those who would write-off Australia by saying we would wither and die on-the-vine if we actually puckered up and told the rest of the world to GAGF until they come back crawling for our expertise and gear, and start putting Aussies first, well sorry, you are part of the problem. That's bullsh*t. This is why we are where we are now, that's undesputed.
This country could even exist totally on it's own without the rest of the world, just like the "united" world does now. Although it's not united, it seeks to take everything from you, assisted by the cowards who vote and and those they put there to represent you. And then, keep whining learnedly about.

And, yes as has been said by the spot-on opinion above, it was the FUDDS who sat down to p*ss in 1996 and the same cowards in 2003 that set the precedents for what continues to happen to our freedoms. I was a part of that too. I was ostracised from my club committee at SSAA Belmont for trying to campaign for complete "NO" on all that bastardry. And I will never forgive these cowards for something that could've been beaten. Simple. And for those who think that my faith in that was misguided, you are the problem so stop whinging because how's the soft resistance working? Yeah, failure. But just keep your heads down.

your a rare ozzie these days mate , good on ya for trying

"UP AUSTRALIA"

Mate, how else but to try and get people to bloody think? I'm not here to be liked, that would be pathetic. Maybe it's pointless.

If I had the give-up and take it up the @rse attitudes of so many, I would not enjoy the things I have and do now, and the only things holding me back have EVER been others and their attitudes. But that just doesn't have to be the way it is, for everyone.

The only thing holding us all back is within us all. Not singly, but collectively.

so true . the old school can do attitude has evaporated these days . i've commented on the apathy of aussies when it comes to being political , but as you've just pointed out , it seems to apply as a observation of our society in general

[noneyabussiness]

"But is it ?? Maybe for people like yourself that lucked onto the " capital gains gravy train " .. the other 98% of the population are hurting"

How wrong can you be?
I didn't luck onto anything, I worked for it. Almost 4 years at night school whilst working full time and raising young family.
I made simple decisions like not eating out or buying coffee every day, or the latest car or furniture. Cut lunch every day for close to 50years.
I didn't nuy a new house, I bought a very cheap one and after working and saving up graded to where we now live. In the burbs.
I don't own several, just our family home..
I'm certainly not in the top 2% wealth wise.


I don't think people had a particularly high living std in the1800s. No sewerage, no running water sfa medical. Comparatively our living std is very high.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

i'm with you OB. i cook homecooked meals , make sanga's for work everyday , i rarely buy take away food , i buy the discounted stock from my local IGA , and i rarely ever buy bottled water . that's a joke IMHO i started out with the most basic of houses, i built the garage into a third bedroom , yes that's correct , i started out with a two bedroom house with a garage cause it was the cheapest option . and the only way i got into that was fudging my income to qualify.

i guess it's easier to point the finger for some these days OB , instead of using your head and working hard . there's still high paid jobs in the mines and civil road works out in regional areas for those that put in the effort . myself , i've got HR truck , excavator and unlimited heavy forklift licensing , besides my trade certificate . makes me very experienced and very employable . none of that was given to me , i worked for it

ahhh, the younger generation hey .......

and here's the issue... You assume I'm one of these pink head dicks that expects the world to give them something... wayyyyyyy off... the problem is CONSEQUENCES, ( I'm going to safly assume you are from said generation by your typical responses) the dipshits that ruined this country are the same generation that winge and deflect when called for there actions... always the same... If you want to fix this place, get rid of the selfish entitled OLD folks in power... maybe we will see some marked improvement...

to the .1 % that actually tried to fight and change this s**t.
. Good effort...

[noneyabussiness]

Yes, it was the FUDDS that sold us all out, and the cowards that had to suddenly clench their sphincters at the thought of resisting all this rubbish since.

No different from the internet heroes who hold back on everything online whether here, farcebook or elsewhere, because their lack of self-esteem and belief in themselves ensures they stay in some popular faux-existence. Desperate for their false online popularity.
Labor had all these laws drafted even before that Howard clown knee-jerked his decisions on us, so the fools who still want to blame him from so long ago are just that, uninformed and wasted energy. It is the evil Duopoly that want to control all aspects of your lives.

And for those who would write-off Australia by saying we would wither and die on-the-vine if we actually puckered up and told the rest of the world to GAGF until they come back crawling for our expertise and gear, and start putting Aussies first, well sorry, you are part of the problem. That's bullsh*t. This is why we are where we are now, that's undesputed.
This country could even exist totally on it's own without the rest of the world, just like the "united" world does now. Although it's not united, it seeks to take everything from you, assisted by the cowards who vote and and those they put there to represent you. And then, keep whining learnedly about.

And, yes as has been said by the spot-on opinion above, it was the FUDDS who sat down to p*ss in 1996 and the same cowards in 2003 that set the precedents for what continues to happen to our freedoms. I was a part of that too. I was ostracised from my club committee at SSAA Belmont for trying to campaign for complete "NO" on all that bastardry. And I will never forgive these cowards for something that could've been beaten. Simple. And for those who think that my faith in that was misguided, you are the problem so stop whinging because how's the soft resistance working? Yeah, failure. But just keep your heads down.

your a rare ozzie these days mate , good on ya for trying

"UP AUSTRALIA"

Mate, how else but to try and get people to bloody think? I'm not here to be liked, that would be pathetic. Maybe it's pointless.

If I had the give-up and take it up the @rse attitudes of so many, I would not enjoy the things I have and do now, and the only things holding me back have EVER been others and their attitudes. But that just doesn't have to be the way it is, for everyone.

The only thing holding us all back is within us all. Not singly, but collectively.

so true . the old school can do attitude has evaporated these days . i've commented on the apathy of aussies when it comes to being political , but as you've just pointed out , it seems to apply as a observation of our society in general

I believe apathy is born out of frustration of the younger generation constantly being suppressed by the Nanny, tall poppy BS... why we NEED new younger blood...

[Oldbloke]

This is why.

https://youtu.be/8TMM3TWkcgU?si=Bj0tdkI6pyCWkKsc

[bigrich]

"But is it ?? Maybe for people like yourself that lucked onto the " capital gains gravy train " .. the other 98% of the population are hurting"

How wrong can you be?
I didn't luck onto anything, I worked for it. Almost 4 years at night school whilst working full time and raising young family.
I made simple decisions like not eating out or buying coffee every day, or the latest car or furniture. Cut lunch every day for close to 50years.
I didn't nuy a new house, I bought a very cheap one and after working and saving up graded to where we now live. In the burbs.
I don't own several, just our family home..
I'm certainly not in the top 2% wealth wise.


I don't think people had a particularly high living std in the1800s. No sewerage, no running water sfa medical. Comparatively our living std is very high.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

i'm with you OB. i cook homecooked meals , make sanga's for work everyday , i rarely buy take away food , i buy the discounted stock from my local IGA , and i rarely ever buy bottled water . that's a joke IMHO i started out with the most basic of houses, i built the garage into a third bedroom , yes that's correct , i started out with a two bedroom house with a garage cause it was the cheapest option . and the only way i got into that was fudging my income to qualify.

i guess it's easier to point the finger for some these days OB , instead of using your head and working hard . there's still high paid jobs in the mines and civil road works out in regional areas for those that put in the effort . myself , i've got HR truck , excavator and unlimited heavy forklift licensing , besides my trade certificate . makes me very experienced and very employable . none of that was given to me , i worked for it

ahhh, the younger generation hey .......

and here's the issue... You assume I'm one of these pink head dicks that expects the world to give them something... wayyyyyyy off... the problem is CONSEQUENCES, ( I'm going to safly assume you are from said generation by your typical responses) the dipshits that ruined this country are the same generation that winge and deflect when called for there actions... always the same... If you want to fix this place, get rid of the selfish entitled OLD folks in power... maybe we will see some marked improvement...

to the .1 % that actually tried to fight and change this s**t.
. Good effort...

i've come to the conclusion that no matter what i say your going to carry on and blame the older generation for everything . mate i grew up poor and through hard work was successful . keep playing the victim and playing the blame game mate . older generations of ozzies no matter what the situation just rolled up their sleeves and got on with the job , and built this country . maybe one day , once you've lived long enough , you might get some wisdom .

no matter what generation your in , there's self serving politicians and a ruling elite . you blaming the older generation for your woes . yeah whatever mate . you've had a good rant buddy , now go fix the problem . it's up to you now . there's consequences alright , now what's your generation gunna do ? will someone slag off at you on the internet in the future cause of what leaders of your generation get up to ? . wouldn't be really fair would it ? what is it to be australian these days i wonder ......

[bigrich]

This is why.

https://youtu.be/8TMM3TWkcgU?si=Bj0tdkI6pyCWkKsc

very informative OB . a lot i was already aware of . i consider myself blessed to have got into my house when i did . what i take from that youtube vid by kon is what i already believed . mismanagement by successive political leaders from both sides of politics with immigration and government tax policy. like yourself i have the one family home that i've had to work hard to afford . i do get a little miffed however when i get blamed for the countries issues just because i belong to a certain generation by a poster on this forum

[Oldbloke]

This is why.

https://youtu.be/8TMM3TWkcgU?si=Bj0tdkI6pyCWkKsc

very informative OB . a lot i was already aware of . i consider myself blessed to have got into my house when i did . what i take from that youtube vid by kon is what i already believed . mismanagement by successive political leaders from both sides of politics with immigration and government tax policy. like yourself i have the one family home that i've had to work hard to afford . i do get a little miffed however when i get blamed for the countries issues just because i belong to a certain generation by a poster on this forum

Yep, we agree again.

[noneyabussiness]

"But is it ?? Maybe for people like yourself that lucked onto the " capital gains gravy train " .. the other 98% of the population are hurting"

How wrong can you be?
I didn't luck onto anything, I worked for it. Almost 4 years at night school whilst working full time and raising young family.
I made simple decisions like not eating out or buying coffee every day, or the latest car or furniture. Cut lunch every day for close to 50years.
I didn't nuy a new house, I bought a very cheap one and after working and saving up graded to where we now live. In the burbs.
I don't own several, just our family home..
I'm certainly not in the top 2% wealth wise.


I don't think people had a particularly high living std in the1800s. No sewerage, no running water sfa medical. Comparatively our living std is very high.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

i'm with you OB. i cook homecooked meals , make sanga's for work everyday , i rarely buy take away food , i buy the discounted stock from my local IGA , and i rarely ever buy bottled water . that's a joke IMHO i started out with the most basic of houses, i built the garage into a third bedroom , yes that's correct , i started out with a two bedroom house with a garage cause it was the cheapest option . and the only way i got into that was fudging my income to qualify.

i guess it's easier to point the finger for some these days OB , instead of using your head and working hard . there's still high paid jobs in the mines and civil road works out in regional areas for those that put in the effort . myself , i've got HR truck , excavator and unlimited heavy forklift licensing , besides my trade certificate . makes me very experienced and very employable . none of that was given to me , i worked for it

ahhh, the younger generation hey .......

and here's the issue... You assume I'm one of these pink head dicks that expects the world to give them something... wayyyyyyy off... the problem is CONSEQUENCES, ( I'm going to safly assume you are from said generation by your typical responses) the dipshits that ruined this country are the same generation that winge and deflect when called for there actions... always the same... If you want to fix this place, get rid of the selfish entitled OLD folks in power... maybe we will see some marked improvement...

to the .1 % that actually tried to fight and change this s**t.
. Good effort...

i've come to the conclusion that no matter what i say your going to carry on and blame the older generation for everything . mate i grew up poor and through hard work was successful . keep playing the victim and playing the blame game mate . older generations of ozzies no matter what the situation just rolled up their sleeves and got on with the job , and built this country . maybe one day , once you've lived long enough , you might get some wisdom .

no matter what generation your in , there's self serving politicians and a ruling elite . you blaming the older generation for your woes . yeah whatever mate . you've had a good rant buddy , now go fix the problem . it's up to you now . there's consequences alright , now what's your generation gunna do ? will someone slag off at you on the internet in the future cause of what leaders of your generation get up to ? . wouldn't be really fair would it ? what is it to be australian these days i wonder ......

I would like to point out that I have not attacked anyone personally as of yet, I've defended my view even with this BS personal attacks... I wasn't actually going to bother with replying as I've been taught NEVER argue with a idiot.. it will bring you down to their level and they will beat you with experience.... however I digress...

The simple FACT is, pre mid 90's, late 80's, this country was in full swing, we had a large portion of our products were produced here, and living standards were good FOR MOST... people were trusted....Cops generally were human... I could go on....but listening to you lot talk about it, it sounds wonderful ...

now in the last 40 years, that generation of tossers has made life for most hard, for a few f***ing great... and there kids/grand kids are paying for it... now you lot have prattled on about how you worked hard for what you have, lead a good life etc... but I ask, how many of you were at that stage were coward had his vest on with your fellow shooters saying no ?? how many were effecting change??

the simple FACT of the above is your generation did NOTHING... even agreed with this... and let it happen... so you can justify in yourself whatever you did at that time, but it's out of guilt I would believe... and that's just 1 example..

I think 1 personal attack was " Mr Broadbrush ".. in this case the facts mean it's actually appropriate... as a MAJORITY of that generation f***ed us... and again, if you were 1 of the .1% that tried, I would safely assume you were as loud as 10% and good for trying..

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Australia could be a superpower.... if we could get the Dicks running the country replaced with some younger blood, preferably from the bush, none of these career politicians..

And what I'm personally doing to help my generation and my children, is affecting change where I can in my community... start with each other next door and work our way out from there..

[mickb]

I would like to point out that I have not attacked anyone personally as of yet, I've defended my view even with this BS personal attacks... I wasn't actually going to bother with replying as I've been taught NEVER argue with a idiot.. it will bring you down to their level and they will beat you with experience.... however I digress...

The simple FACT is, pre mid 90's, late 80's, this country was in full swing, we had a large portion of our products were produced here, and living standards were good FOR MOST... people were trusted....Cops generally were human... I could go on....but listening to you lot talk about it, it sounds wonderful ...

now in the last 40 years, that generation of tossers has made life for most hard, for a few f***ing great... and there kids/grand kids are paying for it... now you lot have prattled on about how you worked hard for what you have, lead a good life etc... but I ask, how many of you were at that stage were coward had his vest on with your fellow shooters saying no ?? how many were effecting change??

the simple FACT of the above is your generation did NOTHING... even agreed with this... and let it happen... so you can justify in yourself whatever you did at that time, but it's out of guilt I would believe... and that's just 1 example..

I think 1 personal attack was " Mr Broadbrush ".. in this case the facts mean it's actually appropriate... as a MAJORITY of that generation f***ed us... and again, if you were 1 of the .1% that tried, I would safely assume you were as loud as 10% and good for trying..

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Australia could be a superpower.... if we could get the Dicks running the country replaced with some younger blood, preferably from the bush, none of these career politicians..

And what I'm personally doing to help my generation and my children, is affecting change where I can in my community... start with each other next door and work our way out from there..

How can you say previous generations did nothing where your contributions are " effecting in your community, starting with each other next door"

Good heavens so you 'talk to your neighbour next door' and that gives you a gold pass where we all failed?

Sounds like you are whinging and failling into the trap of fighting fellow middle class( on a keyboard no less) instead of taking it to guys in power. Which is what they want.

You are also addressing amongst others, soldiers, activists, blokes from the bush, professional hunters, farmers in just some of the people I know here. I am two of the groups, one being a soldier.

Very broadbrush you are painting folks with. Let us know how many wars you have fought, the food you grow for society, the petitions you have signed against law changes and bills, the lobby groups you are part of....

Also you might be interested to know all the inventions you are using including the internet, your smartphone, the computer you are using, and even the power and utilities you enjoy were invented by previous generations. Also the ability for the average man to go to university and invent most of these things was gained by the changes made by boomers. Prior to the 1970's only rich folks got educated..

But thats whats this fight is all about. Not seeing the big picture, not fact checking history, just choosing an easy enemy and venting.

[bigrich]

I would like to point out that I have not attacked anyone personally as of yet, I've defended my view even with this BS personal attacks... I wasn't actually going to bother with replying as I've been taught NEVER argue with a idiot.. it will bring you down to their level and they will beat you with experience.... however I digress...

The simple FACT is, pre mid 90's, late 80's, this country was in full swing, we had a large portion of our products were produced here, and living standards were good FOR MOST... people were trusted....Cops generally were human... I could go on....but listening to you lot talk about it, it sounds wonderful ...

now in the last 40 years, that generation of tossers has made life for most hard, for a few f***ing great... and there kids/grand kids are paying for it... now you lot have prattled on about how you worked hard for what you have, lead a good life etc... but I ask, how many of you were at that stage were coward had his vest on with your fellow shooters saying no ?? how many were effecting change??

the simple FACT of the above is your generation did NOTHING... even agreed with this... and let it happen... so you can justify in yourself whatever you did at that time, but it's out of guilt I would believe... and that's just 1 example..

I think 1 personal attack was " Mr Broadbrush ".. in this case the facts mean it's actually appropriate... as a MAJORITY of that generation f***ed us... and again, if you were 1 of the .1% that tried, I would safely assume you were as loud as 10% and good for trying..

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Australia could be a superpower.... if we could get the Dicks running the country replaced with some younger blood, preferably from the bush, none of these career politicians..

And what I'm personally doing to help my generation and my children, is affecting change where I can in my community... start with each other next door and work our way out from there..

How can you say previous generations did nothing where your contributions are " effecting in your community, starting with each other next door"

Good heavens so you 'talk to your neighbour next door' and that gives you a gold pass where we all failed?

Sounds like you are whinging and failling into the trap of fighting fellow middle class( on a keyboard no less) instead of taking it to guys in power. Which is what they want.

You are also addressing amongst others, soldiers, activists, blokes from the bush, professional hunters, farmers in just some of the people I know here. I am two of the groups, one being a soldier.

Very broadbrush you are painting folks with. Let us know how many wars you have fought, the food you grow for society, the petitions you have signed against law changes and bills, the lobby groups you are part of....

Also you might be interested to know all the inventions you are using including the internet, your smartphone, the computer you are using, and even the power and utilities you enjoy were invented by previous generations. Also the ability for the average man to go to university and invent most of these things was gained by the changes made by boomers. Prior to the 1970's only rich folks got educated..

But thats whats this fight is all about. Not seeing the big picture, not fact checking history, just choosing an easy enemy and venting.

very well said mick , especially the last line of your post

me , i'm a member of ssaa , as well as shooters union, and was a financial member of the nsc before that imploded due to differences in that group. i've been voting independent for years to try to change things and encouraging others to do the same . i've been a hard working tradie all my life ,paying my way , helping to build this country like the other groups of people you've listed above . solidarity at a grass roots level is what's needed to change the way this country is being run and political change has been sorely needed for a long time . all i can do is try to make effort wherever possible , i regularly "educate" people about firearm owners, feral control, life/people in the regions, and debunk misconceptions by non shooters . even though we don't agree all the time , there's a lot of great people on this forum . i'm hoping noneayabusiness learns something positive from this topic instead of ranting and finger pointing. insightful, accurate post mick .cheers

[noneyabussiness]

. Prior to the 1970's only rich folks got educated..

seriously ... most of the dipshits we have in charge are from that very era of screaming into a microphone AT UNIVERSITYS.. FFS

Again lost on you... taking it wayyyy to personal and not actually listening... If Appropriate, Thank you for your service..

!! START !! with your local community ( Neighbours etc.) and it will grow from there... its not some " golden ticket " ITS A SUGGESTION that is different to the current approach, mistrust, as Einstein said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results, so let's as the younger and stronger generation get together and do it differently, LEARNING from the boomer dipshits and not making those same mistakes..

[noneyabussiness]

bigrich, as a whole, I actually agree with you and if you actuallyread my posts, I was as a whole.., I'm just sooo sick of the same people that DIDN'T do anything to stop whinging about the consequences of their actions and get out of the road so people can fix this... and accept the blame like they should...

I'm a member of all of the same " clubs " as well... even tried soooooo many times to rally people to try and help our WA brothers when all that crap happened... just met with crickets or "nah, I can't change anything ", Most were from said generation....

so yes, this thread has just reaffirmed my original fears...my original post still stands...

[mickb]

. Prior to the 1970's only rich folks got educated..

seriously ... most of the dipshits we have in charge are from that very era of screaming into a microphone AT UNIVERSITYS.. FFS

And most of the inventions and innovations also. If you dont like or recognize their achievements, feel free to communicate by smoke signals for your next reply.

Or something your own generation has come up with.

Again lost on you... taking it wayyyy to personal and not actually listening... If Appropriate, Thank you for your service..

I dont need to be thanked for my service in the same sentence I am being told I'm taking something personal, and not listening etc. That's not respect, its lip service, and sort of bizarre to tag it on at the end.

Not that I need any specific respect, some people hate soldiers outright and thats fine too, but I think you would help your case if you could make up your mind whether you are capable of listening yourself, or just using this forum and each post as a vehicle to rant.

!! START !! with your local community ( Neighbours etc.) and it will grow from there... its not some " golden ticket " ITS A SUGGESTION that is different to the current approach, mistrust, as Einstein said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results, so let's as the younger and stronger generation get together and do it differently, LEARNING from the boomer dipshits and not making those same mistakes..

Well get out there and do it. No one here is holding you back. Try not insulting entire generations every sentence, and you might even find us on your side.

Lets be honest, your 'new plan' isnt deviating much from the old one, which appears to be fight other generations with words so we all stay divided.

[bigrich]

bigrich, as a whole, I actually agree with you and if you actuallyread my posts, I was as a whole.., I'm just sooo sick of the same people that DIDN'T do anything to stop whinging about the consequences of their actions and get out of the road so people can fix this... and accept the blame like they should...

I'm a member of all of the same " clubs " as well... even tried soooooo many times to rally people to try and help our WA brothers when all that crap happened... just met with crickets or "nah, I can't change anything ", Most were from said generation....

so yes, this thread has just reaffirmed my original fears...my original post still stands...

mate , this post of yours explains your position much better than some of your previous ones . i've gone to the extent of "putting myself out there" telling you my backgrond and about my life so you can better understand where i'm coming from with regards to my attitudes and what i've tried to do to effect change. can you tell me more about yourself as this might help me understand you a little better .

you were blaming a entire generation for the action, or inaction of the few in actual charge with regards to law and government policy . that's grossly unfair to a lot of good people , which is why i got a little miffed and used a little more sarcasm than i normally would when debating a topic on this forum . which is the whole idea of this forum. exchange of ideas and helpful exchange of information , as well as a good ole chat raging at people just because they belong to a generation you hold responsible achieves nothing but division . it's a bit like those climate change activists "extinction rebellion" blocking roads and upsetting everyday people/truck drivers . it doesn't really rally people to their cause or gain public support , just p!sses people off

[Oldbloke]

I only occasionally look at gun ads. Been having a look this week tho. My impression is that there are a few bargains out there.

[mickb]

Funnily the thread was so diverted when you posted the above old Bloke. I was thinking wtf is Old Bloke talking about.

Nice one getting it back on track.

[Wapiti]

Shame to see you blokes all caning one another. Both side have good points and make extremely good observations.

As I've said, the people I've called "Fudds" let me down in 1996 and 2003 despite my attempts to make them stand to take a p*ss. It made me abandon my club shooting entirely, why? Because is was infested with self interest and jealousy. That's a fact. The reason we are continuing to get hits now is exactly the same.

Is it those old blokes that looked after their single shots? Target rifles? Clay shotties? The ones who set up a system so as to force you all into clubs and memberships? It was. The ones the young people complain about. The ones that run the clubs.

What about the generations now? The ones who say, I can't have semi-auto rifles and bush pistols, so I don't care about you farmers. Except when I want someone to let me roam over their joint, shoot stuff and not pay for the privilege.
I can't see why someone would want suppressors, so I won't join in on their attempts to make them available. I hunt so I don't care about targets. I don't hunt so I won't support hunters. Blah blah.

Yeah, you're all to blame.

It's time EVERYBODY looked past their nose and stuck together.
Who is it now? Isn't this joint a smattering of all generations?

[Bugman]

Bull Sh^t. I am not to blame. I have lived by the old saying in cricket " Have a go ya mug".

[Wapiti]

Sorry mate, and respectfully, collectively we ALL are. Some of us tried to gee up the rest, ostracising ourselves in the process. Too many cowered under their beds, hoping it would end there. History shows how great that worked out.
Maybe it was my fault, I didn't try hard enough. Maybe I need to work on my persuasive techniques.
For me, it told me the enemy isn't just the "establishment", but cowardice amongst us. If you have a less confrontational term to describe it, and it makes some feel better, educate me.

It's good to see that others actually realise it here, and have the nuts to say so and risk being ridiculed. Pity these good folk weren't around then too.

[on_one_wheel]

As individuals we have no chance of stopping our governments chiselling away at what we have left, what tools do we gave in are arsenal? petitions, a vote every 4 years, perhaps 50 people at a quiet protest once in a blue moon, some emails to local member who probably spends the rest of his or her day wondering if they need to put a restraining order against some random firearm owner who just sent it.

We really need a decent "powerful" firearms lobby group with a level headed board that knows what their doing, with the right connections and some serious funding.

[bigrich]

As individuals we have no chance of stopping our governments chiselling away at what we have left, what tools do we gave in are arsenal? petitions, a vote every 4 years, perhaps 50 people at a quiet protest once in a blue moon, some emails to local member who probably spends the rest of his or her day wondering if they need to put a restraining order against some random firearm owner who just sent it.

We really need a decent "powerful" firearms lobby group with a level headed board that knows what their doing, with the right connections and some serious funding.

i agree . i'd like to invite the american NRA to set up over here, but i can imagine the media sh!t storm if that happened . i've been told ssaa does more behind the scenes than we know . but i don't believe it . i think the australian firearms industry needs to get together to look after their interests, and ours . united, they would have the resources and finances to have some influence .

some of the previous posts playing the blame game for the current state of the country/firearm laws aren't helpful, are divisive , and just flat out insulting to me.
i haven't voted on policy in parliament . i hadn't owned a gun in 5 years or was a member of ssaa in 1996 . i only got back into hunting/shooting about 8 years ago . to have people lay blame on me cause i belong to a particular generation or club is ignorant . a few talk about inaction as a cause of our woes , shooters union seems to be the most active group ,politics reloaded is the emails i get informing me of what's going on and what's being done . how many on here are shooters union members

[Oldbloke]

As individuals we have no chance of stopping our governments chiselling away at what we have left, what tools do we gave in are arsenal? petitions, a vote every 4 years, perhaps 50 people at a quiet protest once in a blue moon, some emails to local member who probably spends the rest of his or her day wondering if they need to put a restraining order against some random firearm owner who just sent it.

We really need a decent "powerful" firearms lobby group with a level headed board that knows what their doing, with the right connections and some serious funding.

I've been saying that since '96.
SSAA has been disappointing. Ted Drane was always very active but once he left they lost their way.
NSC imploded.
Unfortunately SFF Party has achieved very little.
ADA has done a bit I think.

The way I see it is all these organisation's/associations are far too self centred. They really only do anything if it directly effects them, rather than shooters in general. Another words we are fragmented. If they all worked as a team it would be very different result.

Someone needs to get them all together on the same page. I hoped SSAA would do that years ago but never happened.
SIFA might be our best bet now.

https://sifa.net.au/

[Wyliecoyote]

Ted Drane attempted to formulate an Aussie version of the NRA and was ridiculed for it long before 1996. Rebecca Peters and her cohorts had kittens when such a suggestion was made during the buyback period saying it would be a group that could manipulate elections in the same way the NRA has done in the US for decades. Essentially a group doing what the Greens do now. She needn't have worried as the SSAA has never been a proactive group evern to the point of self governing to gain brownie points with state governments. NRAA is guilty of it as well where one member i knew well actively campaigned to bring in power factoring like they have in South Africa under the misconception it would preserve the ranges from damage but unwittingly also banning any caliber bigger than 8mm Mauser.
The NRAA shot themselves in the foot and lost more than half their membership over an email that no-one to this day admits to sending or even existing. But i saw it and others kept it and brought it up at meetings only to be ridiculed.
The SSAA took advantage of the situation by colluding with the government to require club membership as a reason for gun ownership. Then post buyback word came out that there were ways that semi auto rifles could have been saved in certain disciplines same as what the AARA did until they finally went belly up, or should i say were thrown under the bus by the military hierarchy that firmly believed no-one should own firearms even to this day.

[Wapiti]

Being concerned about the media having kittens is wasting energy.
I know this is in the US, but the conservatives there didn't care, and Trump was elected again, despite the scum media desperately trying to railroad it. Any of you who watch the centre-right media might have seen that social media and the left media now are starting to fall over themselves to stop being socialist monsters and start turning, because they see their own demise and profits plummeting as a result.

When the people here finally stand up, maybe things can be turned somewhat.
We see now that the SSAA is turning up its political arm now this year, after melting like butter in the sun all of these years after 1996. How about you all write them an email, in your own words, what you want to see? Not just "no more laws", but some reversals? Just post one less whinge about it on a forum, and do that instead.
If that upsets anyone, we all know what that says.
I have been doing that, joining in instead of just complaining on forums. To those that have already, great to see and much respect. You are the only shooters that I actually do respect anymore.
Again, what's the definition of insanity mean to you? Or does society now just like to whinge and moan about everything instead of fighting it?

[wanneroo]

The problem I have seen with a lot of these Australian organizations is they think they can negotiate with the left and if they are just a bunch of nice guys everything will work out.

The reality with the left is they are not happy until they achieve total destruction of western society and tyrannical control of everyone. 100% equal misery for all.

Here in the USA, "our side" finally woke up and realized these people on the left are bent on total destruction of everything and we take the threat seriously and counter it, as you saw in the recent election.