Concerned about Storage safe

[Tomek]

I recently installed my 3-gun safe at home in a wardrobe. I had a tradesman do it and it is now fastened through the floor into the concrete using all 4 ground bolts included. I've read here that if the safe wobbles then you can fail an inspection.

My safe is very tightly attached to the floor. If I put a ball or something on the floor inside it and try to shake it, the safe wobbles quite a bit I think but it is the safe bending/flexing as the ball will not move and it is very tightly stuck to the floor.. It seems like it's just the metal bending outside of the 4 bolt area (as a ball will move when placed on the edge) so the safe itself isn't being lifted off the floor.

I don't know how to confirm whether this wobbling will cause a problem during an inspection... and what if they go and tell me that I've failed despite 4 tight-as-can be bolts securing the safe to the concrete? I've had enough of a rollercoaster dealing with government bureaucracy during my gun license and other situations that it worries me...

[AusTac]

Bolt it to a stud ( the wall ) behind it, that'll steady it up, better to make a fes holes in the wall than find your safe isn't there when you come home

[bladeracer]

I recently installed my 3-gun safe at home in a wardrobe. I had a tradesman do it and it is now fastened through the floor into the concrete using all 4 ground bolts included. I've read here that if the safe wobbles then you can fail an inspection.

My safe is very tightly attached to the floor. If I put a ball or something on the floor inside it and try to shake it, the safe wobbles quite a bit I think but it is the safe bending/flexing as the ball will not move and it is very tightly stuck to the floor.. It seems like it's just the metal bending outside of the 4 bolt area (as a ball will move when placed on the edge) so the safe itself isn't being lifted off the floor.

I don't know how to confirm whether this wobbling will cause a problem during an inspection... and what if they go and tell me that I've failed despite 4 tight-as-can be bolts securing the safe to the concrete? I've had enough of a rollercoaster dealing with government bureaucracy during my gun license and other situations that it worries me...

I'm not a fan of floor bolts as the height of a safe gives pretty good leverage against them, I much prefer bolting through the back into a wall.
Is it possible to put a brace back to a wall perhaps? A timber shelf screwed to the top of the safe, butting up to (and fixed to) the wall should be sufficient.

[Tomek]

Bolt it to a stud ( the wall ) behind it, that'll steady it up, better to make a fes holes in the wall than find your safe isn't there when you come home

No studs behind it where it stands. Only the plaster wall...

[Tomek]

I'm not a fan of floor bolts as the height of a safe gives pretty good leverage against them, I much prefer bolting through the back into a wall.
Is it possible to put a brace back to a wall perhaps? A timber shelf screwed to the top of the safe, butting up to (and fixed to) the wall should be sufficient.

Do you mean putting a piece of wood behind the safe and drilling through that and attaching it to the plaster wall? (No studs available). That could work. Although it would be good if the authorities could give me more guidance themselves. Ca I get a callout from a cop? haha

[Tomek]

Perhaps putting these through the back of the 4 included holes, into the wall would be sufficient:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/stahl-10mm- ... t_p2260392

Maybe with a piece of wood as a brace in between.

[bladeracer]

I'm not a fan of floor bolts as the height of a safe gives pretty good leverage against them, I much prefer bolting through the back into a wall.
Is it possible to put a brace back to a wall perhaps? A timber shelf screwed to the top of the safe, butting up to (and fixed to) the wall should be sufficient.

Do you mean putting a piece of wood behind the safe and drilling through that and attaching it to the plaster wall? (No studs available). That could work. Although it would be good if the authorities could give me more guidance themselves. Ca I get a callout from a cop? haha

If you have a gap between the wall and the safe then that would work.
I was thinking more of:
Level across from the top of the safe to the wall or walls and mark a line.
Fix a piece of 40mm x 19mm pine to the wall(s) along the line.
Get a sheet of 16mm MDF say 450mm x 600mm and put that on top of the safe butting against the wall(s) on top of the pin batten.
Screw through the top of the safe into the MDF.
Screw through the top of the MDF into the pine batten(s).

Otherwise, ask Firearms to inspect it now.

[bladeracer]

Perhaps putting these through the back of the 4 included holes, into the wall would be sufficient:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/stahl-10mm- ... t_p2260392

Maybe with a piece of wood as a brace in between.

If you don't have a stud or nog behind the safe then I would screw a sheet of MDF to the wall across some studs, then screw the safe into that.
I filled in the section of wall with studs so it's a solid lump of timber 75mm thick, 600mm wide and 1500mm high, then bolted the safe to that

[No1Mk3]

G'day Tomek,
The suggestions given here to brace back against the wall are good ideas. Personally I don't bolt to the floor at all and position my safes to bolt directly to the house frame (legal in Vic before anyone starts). The Officer who conducts your inspection will most likely grab the top of your safe and pull quite forcefully to see if it pulls away. Generally they won't, but as bladeracer wrote there can be quite good leverage and rear fixing avoids that, Cheers.

[Gwion]

Should be a noggin behind it that you can screw to. Stud would better but one coach screw into a noggin will stop the leverage problem. Stud finders aren't expensive and come in handy.

[happyhunter]

I bolt mine through the floor studs and wall studs then built a frame around it finished with panels so there is no way to get a grip and lever the safe without some major destruction work. There is also a bead of silicon around the edge to add an extra layer of pain in the arse for anybody trying to remove it.

[happyhunter]

..but then picking locks is easy so if somebody is determined to get your guns there isn't much more you can do.

[bladeracer]

..but then picking locks is easy so if somebody is determined to get your guns there isn't much more you can do.

Mine is an electronic keypad and a cruciform key, it might be possible to get into it through the locks eventually, but it'd be way easier and quicker to go through the side with an axe or a grinder.

[happyhunter]

..but then picking locks is easy so if somebody is determined to get your guns there isn't much more you can do.

Mine is an electronic keypad and a cruciform key, it might be possible to get into it through the locks eventually, but it'd be way easier and quicker to go through the side with an axe or a grinder.

haha.. the new gen lithium Ion cordless tools are what every thief has always wanted. It's so easy to break a safe from it's fixtures or cut it open.

[John Potter]

Hey Mate

Just having recently going through the safe purchase/install phase myself I can understand your worries. If the flex is in the safe and not the bolts then there's no way you will fail an inspection. I'd be more worried about the fact that there is flex in your safe, that tells me that it's probably thin steel and an easy pry open job? If your not worried about that and just trying to comply with regs then bolted to ground is fine. Other than that the mdf across 2 studs and fix to that would be your best bet.

[Tomek]

With my stud finder, I found a 4.5inch wide horizontal stud directly behind the top safe holes on the back. There's another behind the bottom homes too. It looks like I'm lucky with this. I'll look into some suitable screws still into it.
I just find it weird that these thick studs are there!

[bladeracer]

With my stud finder, I found a 4.5inch wide horizontal stud directly behind the top safe holes on the back. There's another behind the bottom homes too. It looks like I'm lucky with this. I'll look into some suitable screws still into it.
I just find it weird that these thick studs are there!

Does sound a bit odd.
What's on the other side of the wall?

Studs are vertical and load-bearing, nogs are horizontal and not load bearing.
But it'd be unusual to have nogs much wider than 2" at most.

[Gwion]

How old is the house?

I have seen some interesting stuff in old walls.

[Tomek]

Slight mistake. Only one of these 4.5 inch noggins behind the top holes.

House was built around 1994. The wall is the back of the wardrobe in my room and behind it is the wardrobe of another room. The walls don't have any power points on them or perpendicular to them. It seems like the same width of wooden beam that I see on the roof under the tiles.

I found the same type of nogging between two other rooms in a normal wall. That one seems to be 5.5 inches wide. Both are at 120cm above the ground.

It's freaky that the middle of this beam lines up exactly with the top back holes of the safe.

[Gwion]

Oh well... Let's go get too concerned about it all.... Whack a screw in there!

[bladeracer]

Slight mistake. Only one of these 4.5 inch noggins behind the top holes.

House was built around 1994. The wall is the back of the wardrobe in my room and behind it is the wardrobe of another room. The walls don't have any power points on them or perpendicular to them. It seems like the same width of wooden beam that I see on the roof under the tiles.

I found the same type of nogging between two other rooms in a normal wall. That one seems to be 5.5 inches wide. Both are at 120cm above the ground.

It's freaky that the middle of this beam lines up exactly with the top back holes of the safe.

It might be that they've run nogs "on the flat" along the join of the wall sheeting then.

[bigfellascott]

I always bolt them to the floor and walls and generally use more than the min required in size bolt and No. of bolts used, I put them in the corner always that way I have 3 sides to anchor it too, also make levering it a hell of a lot harder to do.

[Gwion]

Slight mistake. Only one of these 4.5 inch noggins behind the top holes.

House was built around 1994. The wall is the back of the wardrobe in my room and behind it is the wardrobe of another room. The walls don't have any power points on them or perpendicular to them. It seems like the same width of wooden beam that I see on the roof under the tiles.

I found the same type of nogging between two other rooms in a normal wall. That one seems to be 5.5 inches wide. Both are at 120cm above the ground.

It's freaky that the middle of this beam lines up exactly with the top back holes of the safe.

It might be that they've run nogs "on the flat" along the join of the wall sheeting then.

Tippin' you've got it there!

[bladeracer]

I always bolt them to the floor and walls and generally use more than the min required in size bolt and No. of bolts used, I put them in the corner always that way I have 3 sides to anchor it too, also make levering it a hell of a lot harder to do.

I used to have my pistol safe in a corner like that and always found access awkward. With the rifle safes I prefer to leave a gap from a side wall and bolt into the back and the floor, then I can stash my hard cases in the gap alongside the safe.
I have a steel ammo cabinet on the wall next to the safe, and another above my loading bench for primers, powders and primed brass.

In WA the requirements for ammunition storage is the same as for firearms, you need another safe for your ammo. And another for powder if you reload as you can't store powder with ammunition, primers or firearms.

http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Hansard ... -4863a.pdf

As has been stated above, we can only take reasonable precautions, if somebody really wants our firearms (or anything else we own) they will get them.

[Gamerancher]

Deleted

[Tomek]

What's on the other side of the wall? Not unusual for a builder to put a 4"x 2" horizontally if there is a need to mount something, i.e taps? With one high and one low makes me wonder if there isn't some plumbing on the other side.

Actually, there is just one high one at 120cm. The other side of this closet wall is the other rooms closet. There's no taps, powerpoints or switches on the wall or perpendicular to it.

[Gamerancher]

Couple of 10 mm coach screws then.

[chacka]

It's freaky that the middle of this beam lines up exactly with the top back holes of the safe.

Destiny

[WayneO]

4 lengths of 18mm threaded bar through the wall and bolted to a 3.5mm steel plate in the other room. Cupboard locked, sensor with 2 separate sirens inside the cupboard connected to a UPS and the mancave door is locked.
If they want them they will find a way to get them, but I will make it as hard as I can for them to get them.
Oh yes, and there is a camera in the room as well.

[Tomek]

In the end, there was no nogging. s**ty stud finder.
So i have 4 bolts in the concrete ( apparently 700kg each). And with a piece of wood between the safe and the wall, there's now two toggle bolts which have maximum loads of around 60kg each. This feels sturdy now without wobbling.