Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

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Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Oldbloke » 30 Jan 2018, 6:04 pm

So, this comes up all the time. “I don’t use Sweets 7.62 because it says in the instructions it might corrode my barrel” Instructions also say only leave it in the barrel for about 15 minutes. Or along those lines. And it smells too.
Take my word for it the small will not hurt you, Just use it in a ventilated area to reduce the discomfort.

So today I carried out a basic corrosion test using Sweets 7.62 on mild steel.
The results I think speak for them selves. However it’s a short time frame test so leaving it in the barrel for a couple of weeks could give a very different result.

1 was left for 1 hour 2 was left for 3 hours. A picture tells a thousand words.

Before.jpg
Before.jpg (212.61 KiB) Viewed 7794 times


Test.jpg
Test.jpg (209.08 KiB) Viewed 7794 times


After.jpg
After.jpg (219.11 KiB) Viewed 7794 times


I might do a longer one now, say over night.
Last edited by Oldbloke on 31 Jan 2018, 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by No1Mk3 » 31 Jan 2018, 8:36 am

G'day Oldbloke,
What are you using as a testbed? Stainless (416?), CrMo? Mild Steel? The most corrosive aspect of Sweets is ammonia's affinity for water, not adequately removed after use and the highly hygroscopic properties of ammonia residue will cause rusting in a humid atmosphere. I have seen the results of 12 month immersion of 440C in Sweets, nothing. Nothing at all. Don't mix with Shooters Choice, due to a chemical reaction between the 2 products that can promote rapid rusting. Enjoy your science, the Nobel Prize awaits!!
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Oldbloke » 31 Jan 2018, 8:50 am

Mild steel. Letting one go for about 24 hours now. I expect the same result. We will see.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by marksman » 31 Jan 2018, 7:57 pm

you need to let them dry out first :allegedly: I think
that's what I have heard, not to let it dry out as it attracts moisture
apparently that's the problem not the sweets the moisture attraction
what I have heard is it is very important to oil your bore after using sweets :unknown:
I don't use it now but still rate it highly from when I did :thumbsup:
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Stix » 31 Jan 2018, 8:25 pm

marksman wrote:... ... ...
apparently that's the problem not the sweets the moisture attraction
what I have heard is it is very important to oil your bore after using sweets :unknown: :


No matter what solvent i use (i most often use KG Carbon then Proshot) i ALWAYS patch out (2 patches) with metho-& thats after 2 clean patches--after every solvent...minimum...
I hear white spirits is the best, but i use metho because i have lots of it...the theory is to neutralise the solvent.
When i used to use sweets i did many metho patches to make sure i got it all out.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Stix » 31 Jan 2018, 8:31 pm

:drinks: And good on you OB for taking the time to do the test...!!!
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Feb 2018, 9:08 pm

So these are 50 hours. Just a drop in mild steel. Looked like rusty liquid. Wiped it off and clearly there is at least "some" corrosion.

sweets 50 hours rusty.jpg
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Sweets 50 hours cleaned.jpg
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Bushie » 02 Feb 2018, 9:22 pm

So pretty well as long as you give it a good wipe and re oil everything will be fine

This was actually supesuper helpful cheers OB
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Feb 2018, 9:31 pm

Yes. I'd say it would take 12 or more hours before you need to worry.
Leaving sweets to soak in the barrel for up to an hour should be very safe. Clean it all out then oil it.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by straightshooter » 03 Feb 2018, 7:38 am

Oldbloke
Good on you for having the initiative to actually test for yourself some of the claims propagated by various internet jibberers.

Most bore cleaners have ammonium oleate or ammonium hydroxide as the active ingredient for the removal of copper. The cleaners are alkaline and even when they dry out they won't harm plain iron or steel although they may no longer offer any protection to the steel.
Sweets has ammonium hydroxide as the active ingredient.
Any of these solvents will do no harm if left on clean plain steel.
The situation is vastly different if some copper exists on the surface of the steel. Then copper, and zinc in the case of jacket material, salts are produced and these are hygroscopic (ie: attract water) and lead to etching corrosion or in worse cases pitting in steel, even in stainless steel.

If you are interested in doing a further test try this.
Put a projectile base down in the chuck of a drill press and with the drill running at a highish speed press it onto your clean sample of steel to leave a smear of copper on the steel thus simulating copper fouling.
You will find that the Sweets quickly reacts with the copper and if the copper is very thin will completely remove it in a single application. You will also notice that the liquid turns blue. The blue stuff is the copper salt which causes the damage when the solvent dries out.
If you are sufficiently motivated you can do multiple tests.

Instead of the ritualistic mumbo jumbo propagated by some internet jibberers try to adhere to these rules.
1. Never use a different cleaner without completely removing all traces of the previous cleaner you have used. You cannot know if the chemical compositions of the different cleaners is compatible.
2. After your cleaner has had adequate time to work, patch it out and apply fresh cleaner. Keep doing this until you stop seeing blue or green on your patches.
3. Thoroughly patch out all remaining traces of cleaner and run an oily patch down your bore.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by sungazer » 03 Feb 2018, 8:12 am

I would suggest adding 1 more step StraightShooter.
Before you want to fire the gun run a dry patch down the bore. Then a patch with Carby Cleaner, Which is a metho and Acetone mix. This will remove the oil and give a good dry bore. Run 1 more dry patch through.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Feb 2018, 8:29 am

sungazer wrote:I would suggest adding 1 more step StraightShooter.
Before you want to fire the gun run a dry patch down the bore. Then a patch with Carby Cleaner, Which is a metho and Acetone mix. This will remove the oil and give a good dry bore. Run 1 more dry patch through.


Sungaser, Do you know the % of each?
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by marksman » 03 Feb 2018, 8:43 am

sungazer wrote:I would suggest adding 1 more step StraightShooter.
Before you want to fire the gun run a dry patch down the bore. Then a patch with Carby Cleaner, Which is a metho and Acetone mix. This will remove the oil and give a good dry bore. Run 1 more dry patch through.


not saying you are wrong but I like to shoot over a light patch of inox to just put a bit of lubrication down the bore :thumbsup:
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by sungazer » 03 Feb 2018, 9:32 am

Acetone 285g/kg and Methanol 190 g/kg.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Feb 2018, 9:53 am

sungazer wrote:Acetone 285g/kg and Methanol 190 g/kg.

Mmmm, that doesn't add up to 1000g? What's the other 525g?

OR is it, 285 of acetone + 190 metho

Does remove carbon?
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by sungazer » 03 Feb 2018, 11:20 am

Its a pretty good cleaner. I wouldn't say it removes old really stuck carbon, I don't think there is anything that really dissolves carbon but it certainly gets more out than others I have tried.
Thats what is on the can. I assume they are the only active ingredients meaning the rest is water. Which means the methanol would be more like whiskey at 40% the same with the acetone.
What is good about it is it does remove all the oils in the barrel before you shoot.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by straightshooter » 06 Feb 2018, 6:52 am

First lets clear up a few misconceptions about carb and throttle body cleaner.
It is composed entirely of a blend of hydrocarbons, there is no water in it whatsoever.
If the label says it contains methanol, which is also known as methyl alcohol, it is NOT the same as 'metho' which is the common name for denatured ethanol.
'Metho' is done that way to make it undrinkable to prevent anybody getting cheap alcohol and avoiding excise which is currently about $65 per liter of pure ethanol in the case of spirits, fortunately less for beer.

Now for the belief that carby cleaner "dissolves" carbon. This is a complete fallacy.
What in fact happens in carbies and throttle bodies is that you get a build up of congealed gums and tars due to the quality of the fuels and oils we use. Yes these gums contain plenty of trapped loose carbon and when you spray on the carbie cleaner the gums dissolve and the carbon particles flush away with the dissolved gum. Thus giving the impression to the uncritical observer that the carbon was "dissolved".
Things are different in a rifle barrel. There are no build ups of gums. You have loose carbon which is easily removed with a dry patch and you have carbon which is firmly adhering to the barrel steel which can only be removed by more vigourous mechanical means like scrubbing with a correctly fitting bronze brush.
If you still have a lingering belief that carbon can be dissolved try this simple and easy experiment.
Find a piece of almost pure carbon, which can be obtained from one of the well burnt black coals that are left when a fire dies out.
Put it in a small well sealed glass jar and spray with carbie cleaner so you have perhaps 1 cm of cleaner in the bottom of the jar.
Now wait and see how much carbon gets "dissolved".
You'll be waiting a long time.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Feb 2018, 7:02 am

Wouldn't Kero or Petrol do much the same job?
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by straightshooter » 06 Feb 2018, 7:14 am

Oldbloke wrote:Wouldn't Kero or Petrol do much the same job?

Not quite sure what you mean.
Carbie cleaner contains very aggressive solvents.
It will rapidly dissolve some paints and even plastics that don't seem to be affected by petrol or kero, well at least not in the short term.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Oldbloke » 06 Feb 2018, 7:23 am

"Before you want to fire the gun run a dry patch down the bore. Then a patch with Carby Cleaner, Which is a metho and Acetone mix. This will remove the oil and give a good dry bore. Run 1 more dry patch through.
sungazer"

I meant kero or petrol for this.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by straightshooter » 06 Feb 2018, 7:54 am

Both would be OK but I would question the need if a light oil is used.
I would choose kero as preferable to petrol and wax and grease remover (prepsol) or turps preferable to kero provided you have either on hand.
In my case, for short term storage (days,weeks,months) I use a light oil in the barrel. These days it's inox. I just dry patch the barrel and separately patch the chamber prior to use.
For long term storage (years +) I use a lanolin based oil which turns gummy after a few months. In that case I use a patch moistened with prepsol or turps because I usually have these on hand but when needed any hydrocarbon would do the job.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by Apollo » 06 Feb 2018, 8:53 am

If you want something that is not as aggressive as Carb Cleaner give Shellite a go, it doesn't leave a residue like Metho does. It evaporates very quickly.

Gets used for cleaning off grease, wax, oils, neutralizing cleaning solvents and even cleaning the supply of cleaning brushes and mops. Handy at the range.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by sungazer » 06 Feb 2018, 10:21 am

And if you want a more aggresive cleaner in general for removing things ie bits of sticky stuff left behind from say double sided tape ect or any types of gum. Brake cleaner is good that is a 100% hydocarbon. Its like what is used as a solvent for concrete sealer and other high strength paints. I haven't tried it on the gun as yet but am finding a 101 uses for it around the workshop, garage never on brakes as yet.
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by bigfellascott » 06 Feb 2018, 7:23 pm

sungazer wrote:And if you want a more aggresive cleaner in general for removing things ie bits of sticky stuff left behind from say double sided tape ect or any types of gum. Brake cleaner is good that is a 100% hydocarbon. Its like what is used as a solvent for concrete sealer and other high strength paints. I haven't tried it on the gun as yet but am finding a 101 uses for it around the workshop, garage never on brakes as yet.


Tea tree oils great for removing sticky gum too and cheap. :thumbsup:
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Re: Sweets 7.62 Corrosion test

Post by AusTac » 06 Feb 2018, 7:29 pm

+ 1 for brake cleaner, used it for years for practically everything, cleans car oil off my arms daily
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