Safe Installation

Equipment and accessories for shooting. Safes, firearm storage, bipods, carry cases, slings etc.

Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 05 Apr 2018, 5:36 pm

Hi All,

I have a numpty question and I think I know the common sense answer but would like to put it out there anyway:

Is it better to pay a safe shop $240 to come to my place and install a small pistol safe or will the job be just as good with any ole handyman from Gumtree?

My concerns are as follows:

a. Do I want a Handyman to know that I am installing a safe as compared to a policed checked safe shop technician?
b. Will the safe shop technician be more familiar with the installation and inspection rules and therefore, do a better job to ensure it meets NSW police inspection requirements?

Any advice would be appreciated and please dont ask me to DYI as I am not too handy with the tools and will like stuff it up.

Also not too keen on the idea of drilling down 90mm or 100mm into the slab cause that effectively means that I am drilling straight through the slab to earth cause, unless I am wrong, a house slab is only 100mm thick. Would the inspecting officer know any better if I asked the installer to use 75mm bolts instead of 90 to 100mm?

Cheers
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Jon79 » 05 Apr 2018, 5:49 pm

House slab would be a hell of a lot thicker than 100mm (10cm)
User avatar
Jon79
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 05 Apr 2018, 5:54 pm

Oh ok thats interesting. I read that the NSW standard is 100mm???? but Ive got nothing to substantiate that except for this article:

Slab on the ground - This is the simplest type of slab. It incorporates stiffening beams made from pre-poured concrete in trenches around the outside of the slab, and has a slab thickness of 100mm.
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by sungazer » 05 Apr 2018, 6:11 pm

Your right it could only be 100 mm in places perhaps even thinner. A handyman would use the 75mm if you asked the safe man might not. Using dyna bolts it will actually hold better if you do go right through. If you are worried about a seal or the bolt rusting out from below the latter might take years and years the former you could always get a bit of sealant down the hole as well. Messy job that way.
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 05 Apr 2018, 6:12 pm

Thanks Sungazer.

However what are your thoughts on my paranoia on the Handyman knowing I have a safe vs the safe installation guy? Is that Valid or is it just me?
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by bladeracer » 05 Apr 2018, 6:36 pm

Jon79 wrote:House slab would be a hell of a lot thicker than 100mm (10cm)


Would be very unusual to find a normal house slab more than 100mm thick.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Safe Installation

Post by bladeracer » 05 Apr 2018, 6:37 pm

Rider888 wrote:Thanks Sungazer.

However what are your thoughts on my paranoia on the Handyman knowing I have a safe vs the safe installation guy? Is that Valid or is it just me?


I would do it yourself, or a close friend if you don't feel competent.
I don't even like showing the cops when they come to inspect, always makes me feel like I should move my safes somewhere else after they leave.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 05 Apr 2018, 6:40 pm

OK thanks. Ill see who, living near me, feels comfortable enough to do it and it'll save me a couple of hundred of dollars
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Apr 2018, 7:06 pm

You could buy the tools to do the job for a lot less than $240.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: Safe Installation

Post by bigfellascott » 05 Apr 2018, 7:24 pm

Jon79 wrote:House slab would be a hell of a lot thicker than 100mm (10cm)


Just use 60mm Dynabolts, that way you aren't in danger of piercing the concrete. :thumbsup: Normally what I do is they require say 4 I will double it to 8 and I normally put my safe in a corner so they can't get any real leverage on the door and I bolt it to the wall through the back and sides (brick wall) I've put mine in the new shed and its in the corner and bolted to the frame and I might also weld it to it too just to make it a little harder for any maggot that wants to try :D
Last edited by bigfellascott on 05 Apr 2018, 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 05 Apr 2018, 7:27 pm

Thanks Bigfella
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Terrence » 05 Apr 2018, 7:29 pm

Are there any written guidelines?
Terrence
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 14
Queensland

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Bigjobss » 05 Apr 2018, 7:33 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Jon79 wrote:House slab would be a hell of a lot thicker than 100mm (10cm)


Just use 60mm Dynabolts, that way you aren't in danger of piercing the concrete. :thumbsup:


This guy know what he is talking about.

Just do it yourself, super eazy, buy an ozito drill for $40, drill bit, dynabolts and a stud finder and watch a couple youtube videos. The bunnings staff will be able to help you.

If you are bolting the floor and walls it wont move a budge a mm when you push it.
Last edited by Bigjobss on 05 Apr 2018, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bigjobss
 

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Stix » 05 Apr 2018, 7:33 pm

Like blade im a carpenter/builder...your house slab is 4" thick (100mm/10cm)...thats it.!!..unless youre lucky enough to have fluked drilling over a footing beam (a standard basic raft slab is basically a grid of 300x300 beams/trenches at 3.0 metre intervals in both directions (looks like 3.0 metre squares if you like) with a 100mm thick slab over the top--all poured integrally (at the same time). So unless you fluke drilling into one of those beams you'll hit dirt pretty quick...!!
& thats assuming its a raft...if its a waffle you might get 110mm out of it, with 150mm beams at closer intervals....rite enough of that...

Id be using 50mm galv dynabolts--if you put them in correct you will NOT get that safe up with any in house conceivable leverage tools or force.
& its NOT hard to do--just drill the hole 5mm deeper than the length of the bolt up to the underside of the nut (when the nut is turned on the stud half its own full depth/so only half the thickness of the nut is on the thread).

Put it in yourself mate...all yoiu need is a drill, 10mm masonry drill bit, a pencil & a small spanner or ratchet/socket...if youre really worried about it have a 12mm masonry drill bit & some 12mm dynabolts close by incase you miss a marked hole.
If youre more worried & for added security, drill extra holes through the safe & put the dynabolts down with some big washers--or through some plate steel off-cuts with 10mm holes in them...(if you do this, just add this thickness to the depth of the hole you drill).

Hell ill even talk you through it over the fone (we could do video call just in case you are as incompetent as you say... :lol: )

If they are getting that much money to install safes over there, maybe i should come over & start a business--i always thought you New South Welshman had too much coin...! :lol: :sarcasm: --thats a legal licence to print money...!!!...sheepers, all that for 15 mins work & thats including getting the tools out & cleaning up while drinking a coffee your missus made me...!!

Ya better be careful mate, im single & good looking :allegedly: so i might steal your missus when im installing your safe while you're at work... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :sarcasm:

Seriously, its easy...do it yourself...pm me if you want verbal talk through mate... :thumbsup:

Edit:i just read Scotts input & putting in a corner is a good idea, but i figured my post was too long as it was so i didnt add that...if its indoors, just screw into corner studs if timber frame...
10mm dynabolts are 50mm long, 12mm dynabolts are 60mm long...take your pick--if installed correctly neither will be coming up...!! :thumbsup:
Last edited by Stix on 05 Apr 2018, 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Safe Installation

Post by bigfellascott » 05 Apr 2018, 7:40 pm

Also if they are 10mm Dynabolts use a 10mm masonary bit - don't use anything bigger or smaller or they won't work as they are designed to do and also clean the holes out if you can (use a vacuum or make the holes slightly deeper so the cement dust can sit down there (use a bit of tape on the drill bit to indicate the maximum depth to drill.
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Safe Installation

Post by yoshie » 06 Apr 2018, 8:11 pm

I wouldn't use dyna bolt any longer than 50mm, deeper doesn't mean they're stronger, if you can pry out 50mm deep 8mm dyna bolts you'll pull out 100mm deep ones, the nut will shear off the thead before the bolt pulls out, I'd go up in size to 10 or 12mm, 40-50mm deep. Also worth looking at is if the safe is flush to the slab, one of my safes the bottom is 10mm off the slab, they have these so they dont rock, that will affect the length bolt.
User avatar
yoshie
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 641
Australian Capital Territory

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Jon79 » 06 Apr 2018, 8:58 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Jon79 wrote:House slab would be a hell of a lot thicker than 100mm (10cm)


Would be very unusual to find a normal house slab more than 100mm thick.


My bad... was a very long day
User avatar
Jon79
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 207
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by brett1868 » 06 Apr 2018, 9:21 pm

I can bolt it in for you if not too far out of Sydney, just need to organise a time. I've done several, including 4 of my own and it's reasonably straight forward. I've got a SDS hammer drill that makes short work of drilling slabs.
How's my posting?
Complaints, Concerns - 13 11 14
User avatar
brett1868
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3017
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by pete1 » 06 Apr 2018, 9:28 pm

If its next to a structural wall (one that holds roof up) it could be 300mm deep.
If you lived close by I'd do it for a slab of beer, but your a state away.
If you have a friend or family member you could ask for a favour or slab of beer, may be a better way to go if your not keen on DIY.
Last edited by pete1 on 12 Apr 2018, 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
22LR
223
308
12G
12G
12G
User avatar
pete1
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 390
Victoria

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 11 Apr 2018, 5:15 pm

So the consensus is to sue Dynabolts but it seems, according to the Ramset website, that their Worcs Ankascrews are actually more heavy duty that dynabolts? Thoughts?
I guess I would like the option of removing the bolts at a later stage if I need to replace the safe
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Bent Arrow » 11 Apr 2018, 5:32 pm

I'm interested in the responses you get to this. InSA if the safe weighs more than 150kg empty, it doesn't need to be bolted in. So much "holding" pressure do your anchor points need to provide?
Bent Arrow
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 753
South Australia

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 11 Apr 2018, 6:23 pm

In NSW, regardless of size of safe, it needs to be bolted down for Pistols

Bent Arrow wrote:I'm interested in the responses you get to this. InSA if the safe weighs more than 150kg empty, it doesn't need to be bolted in. So much "holding" pressure do your anchor points need to provide?
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Bent Arrow » 11 Apr 2018, 7:56 pm

Rider888 wrote:In NSW, regardless of size of safe, it needs to be bolted down for Pistols

Bent Arrow wrote:I'm interested in the responses you get to this. InSA if the safe weighs more than 150kg empty, it doesn't need to be bolted in. So much "holding" pressure do your anchor points need to provide?


Ahh yes, pistol safe......
Bent Arrow
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 753
South Australia

Re: Safe Installation

Post by pomemax » 11 Apr 2018, 11:53 pm

Rider where are you located
suburb only
pomemax
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1165
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 12 Apr 2018, 5:18 am

pomemax wrote:Rider where are you located
suburb only


HI Mate

Thanks for your response. Please see PM.

Cheers
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by pete1 » 12 Apr 2018, 6:20 am

Rider888 wrote:So the consensus is to sue Dynabolts but it seems, according to the Ramset website, that their Worcs Ankascrews are actually more heavy duty that dynabolts? Thoughts?
I guess I would like the option of removing the bolts at a later stage if I need to replace the safe


Only issue is with Worcs Ankascrews if the concrete is brittle or you dont get a nice round hole when drilling they never seem to hold as well. There is cheap Dynabolts and good quality not all made under the name Dynabolt.
22LR
223
308
12G
12G
12G
User avatar
pete1
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 390
Victoria

Re: Safe Installation

Post by yoshie » 12 Apr 2018, 8:39 am

I've used the ancascrews before and they are more difficult to use, their usefulness is dependant on the material they are being fixed into, I've had problems with some bricks that are too brittle and structural concrete that was too hard for them to bite into, dyna bolt are what everyone uses because they work well in just about evey situation, drill them deep and you can knock them flush when you upgrade to a bigger safe with different fixing holes, id also recommend epoxy type bolts such as chemset. You'll need to grind them off however.
User avatar
yoshie
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 641
Australian Capital Territory

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Rider888 » 12 Apr 2018, 10:38 am

Ok Thanks. Maybe Dynabolts will be my weapon of choice. Cheers
Rider888
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
New South Wales

Re: Safe Installation

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Apr 2018, 1:16 pm

Here's one I installed today

Floor
Image
Image

Wall
Image
Image

Took about 20mins to do, already had the holes in the safe from previous installations, just a matter of drilling the holes for the dynabolts and holes in the shed frame, once installed I trim the bolts down to the nuts so they don't protrude and damage firearms etc, I also put a foam matt in the bottom to cover the bolts.

very easy to do.
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Safe Installation

Post by Terrence » 13 Apr 2018, 1:43 pm

Once the dynabolts are set you could change the nuts to "dome nuts" to finish the look.
Terrence
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 14
Queensland

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Shooting accessories and equipment