4x scope too high for stalking?

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4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Wodez » 21 Nov 2020, 7:15 pm

I’m in the market for a new high end scope for my 300wm.
Will be used for both deer stalking and long range shots chasing sambar in Vic.
I have always had a 3-9 or 3-15. I am hoping to get a 18 or 20 power but most of them start at 4 or 5 power.
Wondering if 4 power is too much for close range stalking or even the occasional shooting on the run.
It’s not a big difference but I am sure most people in the close situation would find 3 power better/easier/quicker to acquire the target compared to a 4. If it looses me a few deer than it’s obviously not good. Even if it looses me 1

Scopes I have considered that go below 4 power but I am not convinced they are right for me.
Leupold vx5 3-15x44
Swarovski 3.5-18x44
NightForce nx8 2.5-20x50
Meopta optika6 3-18x50

I have a few small issues with each of above and I am considering looking at different makes/models that start at 4 power if it’s not too powerful.
Last edited by Wodez on 21 Nov 2020, 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by LawrenceA » 21 Nov 2020, 7:27 pm

Realistically you are asking the one scope to work at 2 extremes in practice.
Personally find even 2.5X too much for running shots at really short range.
If you are used to 3X and have no trouble using that then use that as your base magnification.
As you know scopes these days have factor well above the old 3 times lowest magnification so a 3-18 would fill the bill.

That Nightforce looks to be the best compromise at 2.5-20.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by animalpest » 21 Nov 2020, 7:43 pm

I personally like the Leupold 3-15 scope. You certainly dont need more that 15x for longer shots at big animals.

while minimum magnification is very important for close range shooting, so too is the ability to get it on target quickly. For that, you need a scope that is a bit forgiving in placement of your eye. That to me is the deal maker.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Nov 2020, 8:54 pm

I have a z5 5-25 and a friend has the 3-18.

Hindsight, I’d happily give up the extra x 7 top end for the x2 bottom end. In my worthless opinion, a z5 3-18 is the perfect (or close to it) do it all scope.
That being said, I have a 4.5-14 on my main carry rifle and I’ve not really had concern re close shots, as all of the shots at deer are stalks...
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Ziege » 21 Nov 2020, 9:37 pm

I use 4 power and even 5 power when stalking, nothing wrong with it at all, its all about what you're used to, generous eye relief is more important, a scope with a very specific point of eye relief is a pain in the ass when stalking through the bush, especially when you take a shot where a perfect rest isn't available.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by on_one_wheel » 21 Nov 2020, 9:40 pm

With practice you shouldn't have a problem with 6x as a minimum mag.

Practice shouldering your rifle with your eyes closed, open your eyes and readjust if necessary.

If your eye never lines up with the scope, adjusting your scope or stock to suit

Develope some muscle memory and you'll be shouldering your rig like a champ :thumbsup:
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by mchughcb » 22 Nov 2020, 8:58 am

For stalking the best is a 1-6 or a 1.5-6. People find out the hard way you can still hit a target at 100m with a 1.5X and you can still hit a sambar at 200m with 6X. If you got time for a 12 or 15X you aren't stalking anymore then you can choose whatever you like.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by TassieTiger » 22 Nov 2020, 9:24 am

mchughcb wrote:For stalking the best is a 1-6 or a 1.5-6. People find out the hard way you can still hit a target at 100m with a 1.5X and you can still hit a sambar at 200m with 6X. If you got time for a 12 or 15X you aren't stalking anymore then you can choose whatever you like.


But Mc, what size target can you realistically hit consistently with 1.5 ?
If I’m stalking a deer, I’m trying to get to a place 200-300m without it knowing I’m there - at which point a 15x allows me to hit the 4 inch vitals target 9 times out of 10. A 1.5-6 is not going to work for me, in those situations...
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Wodez » 22 Nov 2020, 9:37 am

TassieTiger wrote:I have a z5 5-25 and a friend has the 3-18.

Hindsight, I’d happily give up the extra x 7 top end for the x2 bottom end. In my worthless opinion, a z5 3-18 is the perfect (or close to it) do it all scope.
That being said, I have a 4.5-14 on my main carry rifle and I’ve not really had concern re close shots, as all of the shots at deer are stalks...



What’s your thoughts on the ballistic turrets?
I am concerned they don’t lock. Have you ever accidentally bumped them off zero? And I have heard you only get 1 revolution if you have the zero stop installed.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Wodez » 22 Nov 2020, 9:45 am

animalpest wrote:I personally like the Leupold 3-15 scope. You certainly dont need more that 15x for longer shots at big animals.

while minimum magnification is very important for close range shooting, so too is the ability to get it on target quickly. For that, you need a scope that is a bit forgiving in placement of your eye. That to me is the deal maker.



I have never been a Leupold fan but I’m considering it this time.I like the locking turrets and the firedot. It’s just a shame the mark5 3.6-18x44 and mark6 3-18x44 are more than $1500 extra compared to the mark5 3-15x44. Almost double the price to get an extra 3x magnification doesn’t seem worth it.
Still considering the 15 power
Last edited by Wodez on 27 Nov 2020, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by mchughcb » 22 Nov 2020, 11:10 am

TassieTiger wrote:
mchughcb wrote:For stalking the best is a 1-6 or a 1.5-6. People find out the hard way you can still hit a target at 100m with a 1.5X and you can still hit a sambar at 200m with 6X. If you got time for a 12 or 15X you aren't stalking anymore then you can choose whatever you like.


But Mc, what size target can you realistically hit consistently with 1.5 ?
If I’m stalking a deer, I’m trying to get to a place 200-300m without it knowing I’m there - at which point a 15x allows me to hit the 4 inch vitals target 9 times out of 10. A 1.5-6 is not going to work for me, in those situations...


If you are stalking open semi woodland, or paddocks go for it. With 1.5X I'd be comfortable with a shot up to 150m but at that range you should be seeing them first and have time to wind up to 6X which I've done many times.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Ziege » 22 Nov 2020, 11:42 am

Wodez wrote:What’s your thoughts on the ballistic turrets?
I am concerned they don’t lock. Have you ever accidentally bumped them off zero? And I have heard you only get 1 revolution if you have the zero stop installed.


I have 0 scopes with what I consider target turrets. they do and will be moved inadvertently and its always at the worst possible time, nothing like shouldering a gun only to shoot 2' to the side of the desired target or too high or too low, and doesn't matter how careful you are, if you are with others (especially on the back of the ute with a spotty) all it takes is an elbow or something to brush on it and you're out enough clicks to miss a fox at 300m. so yeah not a fan, why give yourself yet another pain in the ass thing to have to consider while stalking an animal where you are already preoccupied with wind, noise, terrain, other animals giving you away etc.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by TassieTiger » 22 Nov 2020, 1:51 pm

Wodez wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:I have a z5 5-25 and a friend has the 3-18.

Hindsight, I’d happily give up the extra x 7 top end for the x2 bottom end. In my worthless opinion, a z5 3-18 is the perfect (or close to it) do it all scope.
That being said, I have a 4.5-14 on my main carry rifle and I’ve not really had concern re close shots, as all of the shots at deer are stalks...



What’s your thoughts on the ballistic turrets?
I am concerned they don’t lock. Have you ever accidentally bumped them off zero? And I have heard you only get 1 revolution if you have the zero stop installed.


I bought the BT turrets but thought it was a bit gimmicky to start with - because they are simply pre determined clicks...you can count the clicks just as easily, but - when your actually looking at deer, excitement and adrenaline can impact...so in that regard, yeah - they work.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by TassieTiger » 22 Nov 2020, 1:58 pm

mchughcb wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
mchughcb wrote:For stalking the best is a 1-6 or a 1.5-6. People find out the hard way you can still hit a target at 100m with a 1.5X and you can still hit a sambar at 200m with 6X. If you got time for a 12 or 15X you aren't stalking anymore then you can choose whatever you like.


But Mc, what size target can you realistically hit consistently with 1.5 ?
If I’m stalking a deer, I’m trying to get to a place 200-300m without it knowing I’m there - at which point a 15x allows me to hit the 4 inch vitals target 9 times out of 10. A 1.5-6 is not going to work for me, in those situations...


If you are stalking open semi woodland, or paddocks go for it. With 1.5X I'd be comfortable with a shot up to 150m but at that range you should be seeing them first and have time to wind up to 6X which I've done many times.


I love the extra field of view on low power scopes, I’m not good enough to guarantee a 3 inch shot placement (roughly my target on a fallow) at 150m on a low end power...2 inches back from target and I’ve got a slow death, wounded, screaming animal on my hands - no thanks.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Blr243 » 22 Nov 2020, 2:14 pm

I think if you are asking the question on a forum, then u are already asking yourself, and are suspicious of a four power being too up there for anything close / fast or both ...I tend to agree with you. I would be more comfortable with a 3 or 2.5.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by deanp100 » 22 Nov 2020, 7:16 pm

I’ve been using a wide angle 4x on a lever 308 for 40 years for close to medium work. Extremely versatile scope. I have no problem shooting stuff at 5 m out to 150 or so . Anything further and the scrub usually covers it. 150 in the bush is a long way. No ballistic turrets, no graduated crosshairs, just good clear glass.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Ziege » 22 Nov 2020, 7:31 pm

I agree with dean
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by marksman » 22 Nov 2020, 7:53 pm

l have used a leupold vx3L 4.5-14x50 for stalking and dropping deer out to 350 for years but l think it is as said more about what you get used to

Image
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by deanp100 » 23 Nov 2020, 7:11 am

marksman wrote:l have used a leupold vx3L 4.5-14x50 for stalking and dropping deer out to 350 for years but l think it is as said more about what you get used to

Image

Is that a lovely old 601.?
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Skinna » 23 Nov 2020, 7:22 am

4 power as min magnification on a scope is fine for close in work.
Beware of field of view & also as someone said above, the eye relief & exit pupil dimensions that will determine how critical your eye placement has to be.

You'll have no problems smacking good numbers of even fast moving meduim sized critters with a good scope set on 4 power, especially if you learn to shoot with both eyes open.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Wodez » 23 Nov 2020, 3:55 pm

Ziege wrote:
Wodez wrote:What’s your thoughts on the ballistic turrets?
I am concerned they don’t lock. Have you ever accidentally bumped them off zero? And I have heard you only get 1 revolution if you have the zero stop installed.


I have 0 scopes with what I consider target turrets. they do and will be moved inadvertently and its always at the worst possible time, nothing like shouldering a gun only to shoot 2' to the side of the desired target or too high or too low, and doesn't matter how careful you are, if you are with others (especially on the back of the ute with a spotty) all it takes is an elbow or something to brush on it and you're out enough clicks to miss a fox at 300m. so yeah not a fan, why give yourself yet another pain in the ass thing to have to consider while stalking an animal where you are already preoccupied with wind, noise, terrain, other animals giving you away etc.



That’s my issue with the z5 and the nightforce. No locking turrets. It would be fine if there is an extra button to push or pop up turrets that can’t be knocked off zero.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Wodez » 23 Nov 2020, 4:01 pm

marksman wrote:l have used a leupold vx3L 4.5-14x50 for stalking and dropping deer out to 350 for years but l think it is as said more about what you get used to

Image



My main concern is the 4 power bottom end and if it’s much harder to acquire a close target compared to a 3 power.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by Am88 » 23 Nov 2020, 4:32 pm

I run a 3-10 on one stalking rifle and a 3-12 on the other and have no issues, the thickest country I shoot is pretty thick, shots range from 20-100m max, I dont find it hard at 3 power, at night under a torch.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by deanp100 » 23 Nov 2020, 4:59 pm

Wodez wrote:
marksman wrote:l have used a leupold vx3L 4.5-14x50 for stalking and dropping deer out to 350 for years but l think it is as said more about what you get used to

Image



My main concern is the 4 power bottom end and if it’s much harder to acquire a close target compared to a 3 power.

Look up the specs of a couple of the scopes you like and compare the fields of view at different powers. In real life situations you will simply learn to use whatever you buy, either would be fine.
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Re: 4x scope too high for stalking?

Post by marksman » 23 Nov 2020, 6:19 pm

yes it is a lovely old 601

l can put the rifle up and point like a shotty with both eyes open being on target, l think it comes from shooting quite a bit of shotgun as a young bloke, its a reaction
l can bring it up and be looking straight at the target, the rifle fits me , lMHO if you have to adjust your head ect.. the rifle/scope ect... does not fit you
when you can bring your rifle up looking straight at the reticle and chase something in the scope you have a good fitting rifle
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