Pig numbers are up big time

[Blr243]

Wapiti. I’m goin to struggle covering up like that I summer

[Wapiti]

I've had this drama, but exactly the opposite.
So many times I've wished I had someone I could trust that was around enough to make a difference. But over the years I've tried letting people on, and I've had breeding deer shot that very cost me a fortune even calves. When we were silly enough to have black cattle, two were shot at a trough during the 18-19 drought, mistaken for pigs. Absolutely unforgivable. Then, once when showing me his new Sako A7 rifle at the camp-site I made for everyone, a welding supervisor who I'd let on touched off a round down my leg. I was a millisecond away from asking if the rifle could be opened.
Add to that our legal advice that we won't get insurance for hunters, that they must be independently insured ABN holders contracted for a specified job, or, we take out a specific $3k/year insurance out just for hunters, but then there's a heap of procedures and dos/don'ts to sign off at the very least or its basically invalid.
I just think the average like-to-be hunter has no idea whats going on nowadays, and many farmers dont know how exposed legally they are either.
So where to from here. You guys with places to go, treasure them and don't screw up.

[Blr243]

I’m in love with the place I’m currently focusing one .. I am very grateful to be there. I guard it. I take no one with me

[bigrich]

I've had this drama, but exactly the opposite.
So many times I've wished I had someone I could trust that was around enough to make a difference. But over the years I've tried letting people on, and I've had breeding deer shot that very cost me a fortune even calves. When we were silly enough to have black cattle, two were shot at a trough during the 18-19 drought, mistaken for pigs. Absolutely unforgivable. Then, once when showing me his new Sako A7 rifle at the camp-site I made for everyone, a welding supervisor who I'd let on touched off a round down my leg. I was a millisecond away from asking if the rifle could be opened.
Add to that our legal advice that we won't get insurance for hunters, that they must be independently insured ABN holders contracted for a specified job, or, we take out a specific $3k/year insurance out just for hunters, but then there's a heap of procedures and dos/don'ts to sign off at the very least or its basically invalid.
I just think the average like-to-be hunter has no idea whats going on nowadays, and many farmers dont know how exposed legally they are either.
So where to from here. You guys with places to go, treasure them and don't screw up.

i just got back from a trip to a grazing property near you mate . i've built up good trust with the owners by doing what's right and being respectful . common sense and respect don't seem to be in abundance these days but . i always keep a look out for holes in the fence and stock being where it shouldn't be . simple thoughtful effort like that goes a long way . most hunters don't realize they are a guest and need to act like one .
pig wise i nailed 8 smallish sows 20 -50kg in weight . the smart solitary boars were elusive and i was just getting to know their habits when i had to leave . saw 2 that were upwards of 80kg easy . big for black pigs in the high country. next time....

[Wapiti]

Yeah I know. My wife canes me because I get around in work shorts all summer... and it's not mozzies she's scared about its all the damn eastern browns.
And the Melanomas... just had 3 sets of stitches out from those buggers.

[bigrich]

Yeah I know. My wife canes me because I get around in work shorts all summer... and it's not mozzies she's scared about its all the damn eastern browns.
And the Melanomas... just had 3 sets of stitches out from those buggers.

long pants and boots for me when i'm out in the paddock , and as a rule i don't put my feet where i can't see them . i'm not keen on getting a kiss from a brown . grass is pretty short in the country i get in . it's nice and green ATM , but the grass doesn't get too long. lot of rock in these paddocks . melanoma got my mum , long cruel slow process if it gets into your blood/lymph nodes . very fair skinned in my family , i get skin checks regularly

[Jorlcrin]

I lost a young cousin to a Brown Snake bite in 2011; 25 Years old, fit and active.

He came home(Emerald, Cent QLD) one afternoon from work(builder), and heard a commotion next door; They'd cornered an Eastern Brown snake in the yard.
Knowing they had young kids, Andy jumped the fence to lend a hand.
In the process of cornering and dispatching the snake, Andy got tagged.

They took him straight to hospital(5 mins), along with the dead snake for ID.
Correct ID made on snake, and they administered Antivenom well within the time period.
Andy was standing talking to his brother and sister after the dose was administered, had a massive heart attack and died on the spot.

When they looked into what happened, it seems a small percentage of people have violent reactions to snake antivenom, and poor Andy was one of them.
No-one seemed to have any firm idea of how you can tell who might be vulnerable, but I note that Andy was the only one of those 3 kids who was a red-head like his Dad, wheras the other 2 were dark-haired like their Mum.
[Only reason I mention this, is that I've heard stories of Red-Heads being less affected by tear-gas and capsicum spray, than us 'normal' folk...]

Sad; He was a decent young bloke, and deserved a much longer run than that.


Had another mate who got bit on the arse in the outside loo here many, MANY years ago; snake was hunting brown frogs, and was under the toilet seat, and expressed it's objections about being squashed when he sat down.
Mate was taken to hospital over 2 hours later, was administered the antivenom, and pulled through with no problems.
Mate me inspect under ALL toilet seats before sitting down, though - remember years later; standing in my bathroom on the 10th floor of a hotel, and still checking under the seat before sitting down.
[In my defence, I was under the influence of the Wobbly Boot at the time..]

We mostly get King Browns here; less toxic venom, but they tend to bite harder and longer.
Most of my snake encounters of late have been huge Black-Headed Pythons.
Given they like a choice bit of King Brown to snack upon, I like having them around.

[Wapiti]

King Brown snakes are a member of the black snake family, and so many people call a very large Eastern Brown as a "King Brown". It's great to see people know the difference Bigrich, but I suppose it doesn't really matter unless you get bitten.
My wife yells me of the quite likely horrible side effects people endure for the rest of their lives from an eastern Brown bite, internal organs failing slowly or shutting down over time from the effects of the venom, the time the venom is working depending on the constrictive bandage application, time taken to get to medical intervention, bite location and as you say, the antivenom side effects although it's unlikely the average person is allergic.

So many times I've had these snakes just move between my boots, just in front of my hands when I'm fencing, or under my feet out the back when I'm relaxing on a chair. 2nd most venomous snake in the world, and very aggressive when they are disturbed and act to defend themselves very quickly when they feel people are stupidly trying to pick them up.

[Wapiti]

Snakes are the least of my concerns of what's dangerous out in the bush.
But back to the OP, because I don't want to dilute this thread with snake stuff that's been hammered in other threads.

NEVER underestimate a pig, if you are injured and immobile in pig country and a mob of pigs arrives, when they realise that you are unable to defend yourself you are in for a hard time. A very bad time.
Casual hunters get used to being the top predator, because everything does a runner when they see or smell you. So that might be the reason they get complacent to don't ever feel the need to be prepared for what could happen if/when they get hurt badly and are left by themselves.
I've been injured badly up the back of my place, 2017 it was, completely immobile, and was visited by a mob of pigs, the boar chasing the sows seemed quite interested in my condition and it was only my legal farm handgun I had at the time that saved my *rse from a very nasty experience. Long story but they will pull you to bits and you may not be completely dead while that happens.

Especially on properties where the owners, like me, cull animals when the opportunity presents itself, and they are cleaned up by pigs. We never leave carcasses all over the place, this just confuses us when getting around because when we smell something dead, we go and investigate because obviously something is very wrong and if we shot and left everything where it fell, that would not work. So we put everything in a few defined places, pig traps whether set or unset. And the pigs get very used to eating the results, and they don't always have their meals delivered regularly and can get quite impatient when they are hungry and you just mightn't be dead yet. And if you think you can swing a rifle around in close quarters you may be disappointed.

[bigrich]

Snakes are the least of my concerns of what's dangerous out in the bush.
But back to the OP, because I don't want to dilute this thread with snake stuff that's been hammered in other threads.

NEVER underestimate a pig, if you are injured and immobile in pig country and a mob of pigs arrives, when they realise that you are unable to defend yourself you are in for a hard time. A very bad time.
Casual hunters get used to being the top predator, because everything does a runner when they see or smell you. So that might be the reason they get complacent to don't ever feel the need to be prepared for what could happen if/when they get hurt badly and are left by themselves.
I've been injured badly up the back of my place, 2017 it was, completely immobile, and was visited by a mob of pigs, the boar chasing the sows seemed quite interested in my condition and it was only my legal farm handgun I had at the time that saved my *rse from a very nasty experience. Long story but they will pull you to bits and you may not be completely dead while that happens.

Especially on properties where the owners, like me, cull animals when the opportunity presents itself, and they are cleaned up by pigs. We never leave carcasses all over the place, this just confuses us when getting around because when we smell something dead, we go and investigate because obviously something is very wrong and if we shot and left everything where it fell, that would not work. So we put everything in a few defined places, pig traps whether set or unset. And the pigs get very used to eating the results, and they don't always have their meals delivered regularly and can get quite impatient when they are hungry and you just mightn't be dead yet. And if you think you can swing a rifle around in close quarters you may be disappointed.

i'm well aware of what you've described . i hunt alone and am VERY cautious . i definitely wouldn't go into tall grass or scrub chasing a big wounded pig that's for sure . let alone the snake risk . my preferred minimum cal is a 308, anything less won't stop a pig if they decide to have a go . i was on a trip to NT for buff and a retired guide was camp cook . he got some pics from a fella who'd had his calf ripped open as a pig woke up and run passed him to get away .he had to be airlifted to hospital .on that trip i'd actually walked through a mob that were asleep and they all bugged out from behind us . some BIG pigs, made me think .
i don't think a lot of people consider these things when going hunting . i also take a lot of drinking water with me . broken down or hurt you can dehydrate to a critical state quite quickly in parts of this country . thanks for sharing your experiences, it reaffirms my caution when out bush and i hope it helps any inexperienced hunters who read it . one thing i've noticed where i hunt is the dead piglets get ripped apart overnight by the other pigs , but not the adult ones . the eagles really appreciated the free feed though . i whistle at them to make them curious , and got in quite close . amazing sight .

[Jorlcrin]

King Brown snakes are a member of the black snake family, and so many people call a very large Eastern Brown as a "King Brown".

Indeed; the 'King Brown' is really a Black Snake under false pretenses!
King Brown/Mulga snake is a member of the Pseudechis family; believe it is named Pseudechis australis.

Other close relatives include:-

Red-Bellied Black Snake (Pseudechis porphyriacus)
Blue-Bellied Black Snake (Pseudechis guttatus)
Colletts snake (Pseudechis colletti)

There are a heap of other Pseudechis family in Australia.

Of all of these, we(CW QLD) only get the King Brown as well as the Colletts snake.
Collets are very shy; rarely see them.
King Brown bites are nasty, as they have a tendency to 'latch on', and pump a lot of venom into the bite.
[Most other elapids tend to tag the prey, and then wait for the venom to work]

In comparison of toxicity, the venom is only 25% as strong as the Indian Cobra.
[Indian Cobra has been used as an outside baseline benchmark in the book 'Dangerous Snakes of Australia']
An Eastern Brown, the toxicity is 13 (yep; Thirteen times!) the toxicity of the Indian Cobra.
I THINk I recall correctly, that the Inland Taipan(Fierce Snake) is something like 25 times as deadly as the Indian Cobra.
However, the King Brown tends to be nearly as deadly as either, due to it pumping a lot more into the bite.

One final side-fact I read many years ago; when the Cane Toad was introduced into QLD in the 1930's, there were apparently 3 distinct sub-species of Red-Bellied Black snake.
Today, there is only one sub-species of Red-Bellied Black remaining; apparently, he's not fond of frogs, which saved his species arse.

Of all the bitey snakes we encounter, the King Brown is the one that will often come into the house in search of mice and/or frogs.
Happy to eyeball them in the paddock and leave them to it, but when they are planning on Break & Enter into the house, they get to meet the Shovel of Destiny..

[Oldbloke]

That's interesting. We get a lot of tiger snakes. Do you recall where they sit, toxicity wise?

I just catch them and take them down the road near a creek.

[Wapiti]

Not just pigs either, goannas.
Anyone visiting a pig trap will find these big buggers gorging themselves on the baits there. But they also will eat something that isn't dead yet, and that wouldn't be nice would it.
One afternoon, my wife and I were checking stock and we could hear these goats bleating. Feral goats. Actually screaming they were, a number of them.
In this rocky creek bed, we found all these nannies that had been ripped by wild dogs and left. Some had their guts wrapped around their back legs, terrible not-immediately fatal wounds but very painfully soon enough. We were putting them down one by one, but we had trouble finding two that were literally screaming, and if you've ever heard a goat being ripped up you know this is a sound you will never forget.
Turned out, these two goats were being ripped up alive, by these huge goannas. They were literally biting bits out of the lower intestines and legs of these nannies and they were in terrible distress. One actually chased my wife, the hissing it made was amazing. One would not let go of this goat so I swung a kick at it and it went me, grabbed my lower leg just at the top of my 8" high workboots as well as my shin and I had to shoot it with a 44 revolver to get it off and thank f*** I had it.
I ended up on antibiotics for a month.
So, screaming and kicking at some hungry goannas isn't going to save you either when a bone is sticking out of you and would not be a very nice day. But the worst thing is how uninformed and blase some people are about doing stuff alone.

[Jorlcrin]

That's interesting. We get a lot of tiger snakes. Do you recall where they sit, toxicity wise?

I just catch them and take them down the road near a creek.

Apologies; Thought the book was titled "Dangerous Snakes of Australia"

Found it this morning; Actual title is "Snakes of Australia - Dangerous and Harmless".

Tiger snakes (Notechis Family) range in venom toxicity of between 1.8 times that of an indian Cobra, up to one thats around 5 times the toxicity of the Indian Cobra.
Common Tiger Snake (Notechis sculatus) apaprently comes in around 4.3 times Indian Cobras.

There is one flavour of Tiger Snake that isnt rated, but the book says it's the highest toxicity of all the Tigers, so that suggests it's above 5 times.
However, that one(Krefft's Tiger snake - Notechis ater ater) is limited in range to Mt remarkable Nat Park in the top of Spencers Gulf in SA, and rapidly decllning population(according to this book at least).

Note that across the Tiger snake family, the venom composition varies wildly, with some having a lot more Neurotoxin(Screws your nervous system), and some having more Haemotoxin(sets your blood like jello..), amongst a few other 'toxins'.

So, as far as venom is concerned, the average Tiger Snake is coming in around 21 times more toxic than the King Brown, though I REALLY wouldn't like to be chomped by either..

On the subject of goannas, I've been told a bite from a large goanna(we have Yellow Spotted and Spencers Monitors here) will be difficult to heal.
Possible it's the amount of carrion they eat, and that would certainly be a factor.
Some recent theories are exploring the possibility they also have some sort of enzyme at work in their saliva, that assists in breaking flesh down.
The Komodo Dragons are suspected of having something like this, or possibly even a type of venom in their saliva.
Not sure I'd believe our local goannas have venom, but I wouldnt like to be bit by one, just from the manky crap they eat..

The few times I've been clawed by a medium-small goanna here, they are certainly well equipped to 'Let the Blood Run Free'..

[Oldbloke]

Ok thx. Interesting stuff.

Always careful when I catch them. All the ones in our back yard have been about 1mtr or less.

[Jorlcrin]

Another Freaky-Weird Special;

Bearded Dragons are non-venomous, but still retain the muscles and if you look at the attached pic, you can see the spot at the back of the throat where the fangs once were.
They dont still have venom glands, but apparently, havent completely forgotten they were once MUCH more bitey than they are today..
[I hold the theory that moving to a mostly vegetarian diet has made them excessively cranky..]

Other freaky, is when you realise the end of their tongue is still forked like a snake...

I lived over 50 years with Bearded dragons, before I noticed the tongue on these lizards..
This guy is a Pogona Vitticeps (Centralian Bearded Dragon).

[Wapiti]

After I was bitten by the goanna I was put on this strong injectable antibiotics by my wife, I didn't get any infection and can't even see where the bite marks were now. I have to tell myself often that I get away with way too much.

[bigrich]

After I was bitten by the goanna I was put on this strong injectable antibiotics by my wife, I didn't get any infection and can't even see where the bite marks were now. I have to tell myself often that I get away with way too much.

a lot of people don't realize how aggressive goanna's can be . camping out in sundown national park with some mates i've seen this first hand . they had no fear of humans cause of campers feeding them . same reason for the dingo problems on fraser island

[Wapiti]

That park shares a fence with the back of our main joint, so sounds like we inherited these buggers too.
Campers at our place have been intimidated by these lizards as they came into their camp and ripped up any supplies they had sitting around. When a mate of mine tried to chase one away, it went him. They aren't shooters so could only throw rocks.

We were actually up there yesterday, we had to control some regrowth on dozer lines done for new fencing up in the high country up there. It's taking forever to get it done and it's a pretty wild area as you know and not a place to get into trouble for someone by themselves.
Actually after it was dozed I was up there staking out the strainer post positions and the general fence run itself and was stalked by 5-6 wild dogs and that was interesting. Talk about feeling intimidated and vulnerable. So now I always only do anything up there with someone else.
We saw a few mobs of pigs, it was a hot day and they were in typical places, lying up in the shade.
This big sow ran onto the fenceline, panting. Obviously ran the wrong way and exposed herself. The wife said, well, are we doing something about these things or just letting them breed? I just said, no, wait... and about 8-9 tiny black jellybeans ran out from the windrow and joined up with her. I could see she was obviously suckling babies and that's not how I behave. In fact my wife then stopped me from taking a shot but she needn't have said anything. Actually seeing these things are one of life's privileges.

Edit: spelling

[GQshayne]

They're hard to catch too at the moment.
Grass is super high and even the ones that have been fenced in with the exclusion fencing are living it up and breeding.
Been feeding them in pig traps to get them familiar, and will set them soon.
A distasteful way to fix the problem in my way of thinking but how else?
People I know who used to come out now just are absorbed by cost of living, work and family needs.

Gotta be careful who you let on too.

Property we hunted on years ago had many people hunt on there over the decades. Owners told us many stories of hunts in the past. Eventually, it was only us that went there. By this time, the son was running the place, and he told us it was simply not worth the risk to let people on. Hard to blame property owners for this. Our litigious society and some idiots make owners very wary. We were very lucky to hunt there as we were trusted, but eventually the family sold up. New owners was a Teachers Super Fund, which of course allowed no access.

[Die Judicii]

Thanks Jolcrin for the pic of the bearded dragon.
That and the other posts above prompted me to post these freaky pics I got on one of my trail cams when looking to pick up dogs.

The first pic shows the decent sized goanna,, and then the wallaby,, and subsequently being upended by Mr Goanna.

Not often you'll get a pic like that.

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[bigrich]

Thanks Jolcrin for the pic of the bearded dragon.
That and the other posts above prompted me to post these freaky pics I got on one of my trail cams when looking to pick up dogs.

The first pic shows the decent sized goanna,, and then the wallaby,, and subsequently being upended by Mr Goanna.

Not often you'll get a pic like that.

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looks like a good size goanna . komodo dragon on holiday perhaps ?

where i grew up as a kid we had good size bearded dragons in my back yard . i trained our dog to leave them alone , but other dogs killed them off when they ended up in neighbouring yards . sad

[Blr243]

Rich beat me to it. Was goin to say that Aussie goanna thinks he’s a Komodo dragon

[Fester]

Local tree goannas can get huge. I came home from work one day and heard one scratching in the front garden.
Near crapped myself investigating and not knowing what the huge critter was.
Must have walked across the road from the bush and only a one off in over 20 years.

Watched a huge Blue tounge do the same, walked across, did a lap and went home.
Big old bugger didn't care about Kookaburras going off above.

Had a resonable sized water dragon living in the yard for a few years and he was cool.

Last years visitor was a huge black Diamond Python with yellow spots. A few skid-mark moments as it had to be over 7'long.
Stayed on and off for months and came back to shed in the garden off the front veranda.
Never seen him again and missed the new fresh skin, it would have looked spectacular.

I hated camping ground goannas with no fear thanks to the drop-kicks feeding them.
The wife also never trusted them and said a healthy young work-mate got bitten OS, came home and died.

[Die Judicii]

I'm thinking that the first wallaby in line got through ok and kept going,,,, but the second one in line was the one that go nailed.
There is a 33 second gap between the trail cam pics.