44 mag or 45-70

[bigrich]

ok fellas , here's a sunday morning topic for your opinions and debate . i recently got a marlin 44 mag lever , and after some work it's not a bad shooter. i've slicked it up , and it'll group 1 1/2 " at 50 with 240 xtp's and 2400 or 2205 . but .....

i'm thinking that the increased thump of the 45-70 and the wide choice in projectiles , lead and jacketed , plus the fact that 45-70 rifles seem to get better accuracy , i'm thinking of upgrading to this caliber . and the fact that pistol powder is hard to get for the 44 . yes i know it's ovakill for most pigs and such , but i'm thinking i like my 358 win , and a marlin lever is handy , why not combine the two theory's (358 thump and lever handiness , no i don't want a BLR ) into a 45-70 or is the 44 mag plenty for pigs under 50 yards in your opinion

okay , opinions please . and "just because" is not enough reason .......

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

I feel like the 45/70 government is the only calibre a lever action should be chambered in. I have a Marlin dark series. 16.25inch barrel. It shoulders really well with the short barrel and comes with a parracord warp loop, paracord sling and a rail for a nice small optic. For me it only really thumps the shoulder when prone but when standing it is not that bad a all.

The 45/70 government is the only government for me. Haha.

[Blr243]

I did have a 44 mag marlin and did a bit of pig hunting with it yonks ago. To me it seemed heavy to carry but that was prolly cause I was used to carrying a 357 Rossi and mini14.... ..I absolutely love my marlin 1895 in 4570 , big variety of Bullet weights available , but currently my favourite is from a mould I bought from CBE 405 grainer. I like this because it’s a very traditional weight for the cal, and appropriate for pig hunting. It’s got a very big meplat. I’m casting 98 per cent roof flashing lead and 2 per cent tin from northern smelters. Even though in buying the lead roof flashing from Bunnings it still works out less than 25 cents per pill. That’s cheap for a soft expanding non fly apart pill. I ended up doin a lot of research on cast bullet hunting. It appears with a big meplat and a soft mix these pills flatten out and perform very well. I would just buy commercial cast pills if they were the correct mix but I don’t think any company will make them. They are all about being hard to reduce leading and I don’t want Fmj results on game. So I just mak my own it’s easy and you can punch out hundreds quite quick. Lee sizeing dies are cheap and easy to use if you wish to size rather than just use as is straight from the mould. Tons of commercial or home made Bullet lubes are easy ...... hollow point moulds can be tricky. I tried with a 500 grainer but I gave up and now just use my big meplat 405 pill. Recoil is not an issue. It can be loaded down to very comfortable levels and still knock things down with big exits. Powders are easy ... other than the listed adi stuff there is red dot and unique and trail boss .....these are forgiving powders as u are experimenting with load development... you probably already know about GMDR low level data , with care and research there are powders not positiion sensitive so u need not be too concerned about using fillers when useing up a smaller portion of case volume. I’m pretty sure I’ll never use a filler in my life ....cleavers site lists Ss versions, some have 9 shot mag capabilities when the tube runs all the way underneath. If you get one, u won’t be ever selling your 4570..... flex tips from hornady are available if you want a flatter shooter than is currently achieved with all these flat tipped pills For lever guns ( trimmed shorter cases ). Lee factory crimp die is cheap and does a very nice job

[Blr243]

These guns can be loaded up to provide upwards of 3500 foot pounds of energy. You need never buy a bigger gun again

[bigpete]

Imo 45-70 is so overrated...and I own one ! And have dicked around with reloading it with various different loads,cast lead,light jacketed,multi ball,shot loads.....in both a double rifle and a marlin cowboy....

44 mag is kinda fun. I'd choose that over the 2 myself. Mine is a Rossi 92 and its fun,but its still getting sold soon

[ZaineB]

I personally would get the 45-70 if I was getting a 40cal but thats just me.

What I want to know is what is the best ,357mag lever gun to buy, thinking a little chiappa or henry, but any votes out there? lol

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

I personally would get the 45-70 if I was getting a 40cal but thats just me.

What I want to know is what is the best ,357mag lever gun to buy, thinking a little chiappa or henry, but any votes out there? lol

Check out the Marlin dark series in 357mag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSLkMJWXh2Y

[bigrich]

thanks for the replies fellas . lotta love for 45-70

CIC , that marlin of yours is a handy looking bit of gear . i normally like blued/wood myself, but i'm considering stainless /laminate for a true working rifle

BP are you replacing your rossi 44 with another 44, or just over the caliber ?

BLR , lot's of useful info , much appreciated . did you find 44 mag enough gun for pigs ?

zaineB , i've owned two 357 levers . a marlin that would group very well at 50 . i think under a inch at times . i also had a rossi 92 stainless . after use it was slick , good trigger and with a quicker 1-20 twist i think , it was crazy accurate with factory ammo at 50 with open sights . but it had horrible nasty hardwood stock that was developing cracks and splits so it went

[LawrenceA]

You like the 358.
Why not get a 358 lever or pump?
My 45-70 was my go to for pigs. I loaded with the 320 grain HP and they performed well.
BTW the 500 J works well on pigs to and you never know if a rabid elephant may attack!

Personally I am now looking for a lever or pump in 358W or 35 Rem.

[bigrich]

You like the 358.
Why not get a 358 lever or pump?
My 45-70 was my go to for pigs. I loaded with the 320 grain HP and they performed well.
BTW the 500 J works well on pigs to and you never know if a rabid elephant may attack!

Personally I am now looking for a lever or pump in 358W or 35 Rem.

yeah, i got a model 70 converted to 358 . nice gun , silly accurate . but i'm liking the idea of a lever in a wide caliber with easily available ammo and ammo componants . i make my own brass for the 358 quite successfully , projectiles are available , but generally something to be ordered in . 358 has good reach and power , but as a "scrubber" i'm thinking my 44mag or a upgrade to 45-70 are a little less hassle and more suited to the scrub/dam jumping tasks i want it for . especially for follow up shots . levers do have a advantage with that

[LawrenceA]

Hell yes they certainly do.
Last time I went after pigs it was with 2 mates.
Went over to a dam and I nailed both pigs before the second took a step.
Guys with bolt guns? 0

Try the 44. It can do almost as much as a 45-70 with light pills.
With heavier pills the 45-70 pulls ahead.
The standard 45-70, not cowboy, is surprisingly light and well balanced. It may not have 10 in the mag but 5 seems to be enough most of the time.

Whatever you decide, just enjoy the ride.

[Bill]

Ive got a BLR 358 Takedown and it just covers so many bases, recoil can be brisk if you load it up but you'll get back on target a hell of a lot quicker than a 45-70

I know a few Sambar hunters who love the old Remmy pump and even fantacize about wanky straight pulls but you just cant beat the old BLR for Lever speed

[bigrich]

Hell yes they certainly do.
Last time I went after pigs it was with 2 mates.
Went over to a dam and I nailed both pigs before the second took a step.
Guys with bolt guns? 0

Try the 44. It can do almost as much as a 45-70 with light pills.
With heavier pills the 45-70 pulls ahead.
The standard 45-70, not cowboy, is surprisingly light and well balanced. It may not have 10 in the mag but 5 seems to be enough most of the time.

Whatever you decide, just enjoy the ride.

what weight pills do you advise from your experience for 44 ? hornady 240xtp's fly better than sierra's out of my marlin. i put that down partly to the .430" vs.429" projectile size in the marlin barrel . i was thinking of trying 200xtp or 210 sierras in my rifle after reading nathan foster's write up on the caliber

the new 45-70's use ballard rifling i believe , which is much better for lead

[bigrich]

Ive got a BLR 358 Takedown and it just covers so many bases, recoil can be brisk if you load it up but you'll get back on target a hell of a lot quicker than a 45-70

I know a few Sambar hunters who love the old Remmy pump and even fantacize about wanky straight pulls but you just cant beat the old BLR for Lever speed

good points bill, i had considered 35rem or even 32 win special . i'm not keen on a BLR or savage 99 but .

[LawrenceA]

Sorry not a 44mag.
Mine is the 45-70 using the Gould cast hollow point. Think it is a 320 grain but casts at .457.
I then powder coat and size. Mind you I also have a Trapdoor so have shot pigs with 320's and 405's using smokeless and black from maybe 1000fps to 2000 fps and no worries with being effective through the entire range. Currently use medium loads of about 38grains versus the max of 52. Hotter than black but not HOT!
One thing with the 45-70 is the scalability.

[bigpete]

Bigrich,I'm over lever guns tbh. Just not practical enough for me. I'd much rather a bolt action any day of the week. As for the 45-70,it's neither here nor there afaic. The 44 mag I'd own in a bolt action but with the stupid SA laws now its too much of a head f*** to get one

[bigrich]

Bigrich,I'm over lever guns tbh. Just not practical enough for me. I'd much rather a bolt action any day of the week. As for the 45-70,it's neither here nor there afaic. The 44 mag I'd own in a bolt action but with the stupid SA laws now its too much of a head f*** to get one

is that because it's a pistol caliber pete ?

[bigpete]

No its because I'd struggle to justify it to firearms branch

[bigrich]

No its because I'd struggle to justify it to firearms branch

you have to provide seriously detailed reasons for a purchase in your state pete ?

[bigpete]

Only for category b

[bigrich]

Only for category b

aha . so rimfires and shotty's are reasonably free then ? i know i'm getting off topic , but what reasons do you use to justify cat b rifles ? does hunting uses not cover things , is it related to the number of rifles you already own, or caliber size to land like in WA ?

[Blr243]

Big rich I actually found my 357 Rossi sorted out all my pigs at the time and I never felt I needed more. I was just shooting scopeless and close range

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

In Queensland by law cat A firearms do not need a genuine reason to possess. In practise the other categories do not require much additional information if any to prove genuine reason. Even Justifying genuine reason if you have a cat D licence is not difficult. You saw a pig and or dog on your property so you need the rifle to cull feral animals as traping and baiting is unsafe to livestock and native animals and the reason you need a large magazine is because carrying loose ammunition on your person is unsafe.

If you want something bad enough you will suffice the genuine reason outlined in the relevant legislation.

[Blr243]

Speaking of 4570 and pistol cals, the other day on u tube I came across a derringer in 4570.... that’s pretty silly. I can’t imagine they wood b shooting full loads

[Communism_Is_Cancer]

Speaking of 4570 and pistol cals, the other day on u tube I came across a derringer in 4570.... that’s pretty silly. I can’t imagine they wood b shooting full loads

Not all 45-70 governments are lever action. CVA make a nice break action 45-70 government

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6mS6F ... e=youtu.be

[bigrich]

Speaking of 4570 and pistol cals, the other day on u tube I came across a derringer in 4570.... that’s pretty silly. I can’t imagine they wood b shooting full loads

Not all 45-70 governments are lever action. CVA make a nice break action 45-70 government

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6mS6F ... e=youtu.be

i had a cva 45-70 good gun . accurate with a good trigger . check old posts from a couple of years ago

[bigrich]

In Queensland by law cat A firearms do not need a genuine reason to possess. In practise the other categories do not require much additional information if any to prove genuine reason. Even Justifying genuine reason if you have a cat D licence is not difficult. You saw a pig and or dog on your property so you need the rifle to cull feral animals as traping and baiting is unsafe to livestock and native animals and the reason you need a large magazine is because carrying loose ammunition on your person is unsafe.

If you want something bad enough you will suffice the genuine reason outlined in the relevant legislation.

yeah i know that about queensland . i was asking about bigpete's situation in south oz, which seems stricter

[bigrich]

Big rich I actually found my 357 Rossi sorted out all my pigs at the time and I never felt I needed more. I was just shooting scopeless and close range

yeah , i know . but 357 doesn't punch me arm like a 44 , so a 45-70 must be better

[bigpete]

Its a pretty new rule. I've only bought 1 cat b since it came in

[bigrich]

Its a pretty new rule. I've only bought 1 cat b since it came in

so they must "grandfathering" stuff that people already have . keep what ya got already i guess . that sux pete

maybe i should buy a 45-70 just because i can . mind you , i think my 270 will do a job on them as well . just a case of the right projectile . but a lever with a low magnification scope is ideally suited to pigging