7.62x39 for Sambar

[on_one_wheel]

How do you now prove that shot had enough energy?

From SSAMI
Based on the general equation for kinetic energy, Ek=½mv2, which directly uses mass (m) and velocity (v), the following formula is used to calculate the kinetic energy of a projectile (expressed in foot-pounds):

E=(W*V2)/(14000*gc).

In this formula, W = weight of projectile, in grains; V = velocity, in feet per second; gc= gravitational constant, 32.174 ft/s2

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, aware that the physics is well known. Using energy is very sensible.
What I'm saying is how would it all work in the courts?

0.270 and 130gr is simple and easy to show.
Energy would be a can of worms IMO.

Hand loads even harder.

[bigpete]

Still better than just letting people whatever they feel like.
Perhaps the wording should be " cartridges capable of producing x amount of energy ".
And forbid the use of subsonic rounds

[Oldbloke]

Still better than just letting people whatever they feel like.
Perhaps the wording should be " cartridges capable of producing x amount of energy ".
And forbid the use of subsonic rounds

Agree in principle, energy is the best in theory. The courts would need to be able to interpret and prove or disprove what is lawful. Need a lawyer to advise I guess.

How often does this sort of thing end up in the courts?

[bladeracer]

Still better than just letting people whatever they feel like.
Perhaps the wording should be " cartridges capable of producing x amount of energy ".
And forbid the use of subsonic rounds

Nothing wrong with subsonic ammunition, all down to the shooter to place it correctly.

[bladeracer]

How do you now prove that shot had enough energy?

From SSAMI
Based on the general equation for kinetic energy, Ek=½mv2, which directly uses mass (m) and velocity (v), the following formula is used to calculate the kinetic energy of a projectile (expressed in foot-pounds):

E=(W*V2)/(14000*gc).

In this formula, W = weight of projectile, in grains; V = velocity, in feet per second; gc= gravitational constant, 32.174 ft/s2

How do you prove that the round you fired at the animal had a specific energy level though? I guess in a court you could produce an expert in the field that could shoot several animals of similar structure to what you've been charged over, and you could show that bullets of similar design to the remains of your bullet (if it were even possible to recover it) did a similar amount of damage and extrapolate the bullet's terminal velocity from that, but it would still be only a guess.

It's ridiculous legislation that is unenforceable and should never have happened. Any hunter that respects his targets will make good choices, any hunter that doesn't won't care what the legislation is anyway.

[Oldbloke]

How do you now prove that shot had enough energy?

From SSAMI
Based on the general equation for kinetic energy, Ek=½mv2, which directly uses mass (m) and velocity (v), the following formula is used to calculate the kinetic energy of a projectile (expressed in foot-pounds):

E=(W*V2)/(14000*gc).

In this formula, W = weight of projectile, in grains; V = velocity, in feet per second; gc= gravitational constant, 32.174 ft/s2

How do you prove that the round you fired at the animal had a specific energy level though? I guess in a court you could produce an expert in the field that could shoot several animals of similar structure to what you've been charged over, and you could show that bullets of similar design to the remains of your bullet (if it were even possible to recover it) did a similar amount of damage and extrapolate the bullet's terminal velocity from that, but it would still be only a guess.

It's ridiculous legislation that is unenforceable and should never have happened. Any hunter that respects his targets will make good choices, any hunter that doesn't won't care what the legislation is anyway.

Yep.

can-of-worms-saying-cartoon-vector-1978944-1185226511.jpg (170.63 KiB) Viewed 8769 times

[mchughcb]

Most hunters follow a well worn path. First they buy a 308win and then lose a few deer. Then they go and buy a 300 Win mag and lose even more. Finally they sell both and buy a 270win and learn how to hunt and lose less.

[bigpete]

Or they use a 308 and don't lose any

[animalpest]

Or they buy a 6.5 CM and brag about how many they could have shot

[bigrich]

Or they use a 308 and don't lose any

Yep . After playing around with all sorts of calibers, I’ve gone full circle and ended up back with the 308. And I don’t scramble around looking for lost brass as ADI is freely available

[Oldbloke]

There is some good info here relating to cartridges and scope for Sambar.

https://www.sambarsafaris.com.au/rifleandscope

Lots of useful information in the article in that link OB
30-06 appears to be the author’s favourite, which coincides with my view. Can’t believe he left out the 7.62x39 however.......

30.06 is very, very popular.
If you read The secrets of sambar Errol Mason he only talks about using 308 or bigger. A lot about bullet construction too. Basically, don't use cheap stuff.
He basically recommends the following. (Bigger is better) Below is not a complete list but will give you a good idea.
30.30 and 7.62x39 don't rank.

Cartridges
308
7x57
270
30.06
7mm mag
35 whelen
338
375h&h
9.3x62
458 nm

Bullets
150gr or bigger
Core-lokt
Woodleigh
Nosler accubond
Barns x
Grand slams
Nosler petition
Grand slams

308
270
30.06
7mm mag
35 whelen

They are popular for good reason.

[bigrich]

Or they buy a 6.5 CM and brag about how many they could have shot

that's about it . i've used the 6.5 swede for years with warm handloads and 140sst , and yeah, it kills . but 308 just hits harder with 150's . been hearing talk about the creed not performing as expected on pigs . wrong ammo choice ? i won't argue the accuracy of the creed , or it's long range ballistics . but to a certain degree it's been over-hyped . i believe all the FPS data that's given for it are obtained using a 26" barrel . factory ammo out of a 22" sporter barrel wouldn't be that impressive i reckon .

for regular sambar work 35 whelen , 9.3x62 would be my choice . i used the 9.3 on buff in the NT with 250 barnes loaded fast , which it's marginal for IMHO . 270 speers worked on pigs so long as you hit the shoulder to get good projectile expansion. 285gn round nose on feral horses/donkeys ,which have close to the same game weight as sambar i reckon, it flattened them with chest shots .relative to game weight , bigger wound channel/bore definately gives results

[deye243]

Or they buy a 6.5 CM and brag about how many they could have shot

Or how many miles away it was

Or they use a 308 and don't lose any

Yep if you can't put a sambar down with a 150g pill at 2900 time to take up knitting.

[mchughcb]

Or they use a 308 and don't lose any

Yep . After playing around with all sorts of calibers, I’ve gone full circle and ended up back with the 308. And I don’t scramble around looking for lost brass as ADI is freely available

In light of what has transpired with primers ammo and brass in the last few years, it is very logical direction. I just cleaned up some once fired ADI 308Win brass last week for this years hunting and its very good quality and if you keep an eye out you can get it very cheap.

[mchughcb]

Or they buy a 6.5 CM and brag about how many they could have shot

is that what they do in WA?

[Oldbloke]

This bloke seems to consider the 7.62x39mm okay for sambar, perhaps he saw this thread and decided to test it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYRzi-kTKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8IeRPW1nmc

Well, seems at some point he decided it wasn't enough gun and purchased a 35 Whelan.

https://youtu.be/wVdUdpG1kBQ?si=bQm6vWuMQJ8Imxq_

[bladeracer]

This bloke seems to consider the 7.62x39mm okay for sambar, perhaps he saw this thread and decided to test it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYRzi-kTKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8IeRPW1nmc

Well, seems at some point he decided it wasn't enough gun and purchased a 35 Whelan.

https://youtu.be/wVdUdpG1kBQ?si=bQm6vWuMQJ8Imxq_

And shot the sambar three times with the Whelen, wow.

[gunderson]

the answer was and is and always will be 300winmag

[Oldbloke]

IMO the first shot is a bit far back. (Liver?)
The others look better. Still, they take a bit of stopping.

[Oldbloke]

IMG_20240306_153816.jpg (152.46 KiB) Viewed 8400 times

[animalpest]

Or they buy a 6.5 CM and brag about how many they could have shot

is that what they do in WA?

Never need a 6.5CM when I have 4 x .308's.
Note I said "COULD" have shot

[mchughcb]

Or they buy a 6.5 CM and brag about how many they could have shot

is that what they do in WA?

Never need a 6.5CM when I have 4 x .308's.
Note I said "COULD" have shot

I notice in WA many millennials have muzzle breaks on their 308s.

[gunderson]

Or they buy a 6.5 CM and brag about how many they could have shot

is that what they do in WA?

Never need a 6.5CM when I have 4 x .308's.
Note I said "COULD" have shot

I notice in WA many millennials have muzzle breaks on their 308s.

I know a bloke in WA who's missus asked for her 223 to be fitted with one.

[mchughcb]

I know a bloke in WA who's missus asked for her 223 to be fitted with one.

There's a keeper right there

[OyKurwa]

This is an interesting thread.

In the last 5 months I have taken three sambar with my Ruger American Ranch in 300BLK loaded with 125gr pills. They were taken whilst infrared spotlighting on a private property, with shots to the nape of the neck where it joins the body. Furthest shot was about 130m. Two of them were dropped on the spot, one managed about 10m before it packed it in.

These shots were all taken in situations where I had the rifle well rested, the deer had no idea I was there and I had the luxury to take the time to wait for a perfect shot.

I think 7.62x39 would certainly be capable in these circumstances.

Would I consider either a caliber a capable general sambar hunting round though? No. If you were out in state forest stalking in and looking at taking one with the typical fleeting opportunity that will get you, definitely not.

[deye243]

This is an interesting thread.

In the last 5 months I have taken three sambar with my Ruger American Ranch in 300BLK loaded with 125gr pills. They were taken whilst infrared spotlighting on a private property, with shots to the nape of the neck where it joins the body. Furthest shot was about 130m. Two of them were dropped on the spot, one managed about 10m before it packed it in.

These shots were all taken in situations where I had the rifle well rested, the deer had no idea I was there and I had the luxury to take the time to wait for a perfect shot.

I think 7.62x39 would certainly be capable in these circumstances.

Would I consider either a caliber a capable general sambar hunting round though? No. If you were out in state forest stalking in and looking at taking one with the typical fleeting opportunity that will get you, definitely not.

You do realise you just admitted to breaking the regs on an open forum don't you .

[bladeracer]

You do realise you just admitted to breaking the regs on an open forum don't you .

I wish them luck in trying to lay a charge for it with zero evidence. Besides, the regs are ludicrous.

[bigpete]

This is an interesting thread.

In the last 5 months I have taken three sambar with my Ruger American Ranch in 300BLK loaded with 125gr pills. They were taken whilst infrared spotlighting on a private property, with shots to the nape of the neck where it joins the body. Furthest shot was about 130m. Two of them were dropped on the spot, one managed about 10m before it packed it in.

These shots were all taken in situations where I had the rifle well rested, the deer had no idea I was there and I had the luxury to take the time to wait for a perfect shot.

I think 7.62x39 would certainly be capable in these circumstances.

Would I consider either a caliber a capable general sambar hunting round though? No. If you were out in state forest stalking in and looking at taking one with the typical fleeting opportunity that will get you, definitely not.

You do realise you just admitted to breaking the regs on an open forum don't you .

At no point did he state he was shooting in Victoria....

[Billo]

I just bought a 6.5 PRC and I'll be using it for Sambar, certainly a lot more gun than the 308 and leap frogs the 30-06 & 270 at longer ranges