For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Game and varmint hunting. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Culling, hunting feral animals and vertebrate pest control.

Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by grandadbushy » 04 Dec 2018, 2:47 am

Yes i'm getting soft in my old age I too , like 1 shot one kill as the pros say I never have liked seeing animals suffer and do my utmost for a quick clean kill
i'm not even keen on using poisons but they are an evil necessary thing at times
I don't think any hunter doesn't show some sympathy for their quarry at times but that's part of growing and it shows the anti's that we hunters/shooters aren't
the murdering mongrels they make us out to be we do have a heart and show respect to the animals we shoot
Sometimes a shot will go a rye and not turn out as you expected that's when you tend to feel a tad uncomfortable with the outcome
But hey we've all had an event like that and that's what makes you human when you get those feelings nothing wrong with that not one iota
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by tom604 » 04 Dec 2018, 7:34 am

TassieTiger wrote:
tom604 wrote:don't like shooting kid goats but i still take their legs quote]

Ummm....where do you take them? And are the absent from the rest of the kids body?


the really small ones are the best tasting, melt in your mouth :thumbsup:
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by Bigjobss » 04 Dec 2018, 8:09 am

tom604 wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:
tom604 wrote:don't like shooting kid goats but i still take their legs quote]

Ummm....where do you take them? And are the absent from the rest of the kids body?


the really small ones are the best tasting, melt in your mouth :thumbsup:


I am the same with small deer, I dont enjoy taking the little ones but if the freezer is low I feel like a hypocite if I dont.
A dead animal is a dead animal but its funny how we perceive and value things with our own bias. have never felt guilty for shooting a rabbit or cat but I have a greater emotional investment in deer and value them higher.

And to expand on what I said about killing and eating meat - you SHOULD be able to kill or at least be OK with others doing it, otherwise you should seriously consider going vegan, and I think every meat eater should at least once in their life experience killing an animal, even if its a fish.
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 04 Dec 2018, 9:20 am

While I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly Bigjobss, your last suggestion I would change, just slightly.

Meat eaters should witness the killing of an animal for food.
Only those who are proficient enough and have the mindset to do it without the hesitation that can cause mistakes and suffering should do the killing so that it is done humanely.
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by Bigjobss » 04 Dec 2018, 9:44 am

I agree with what you are saying Gaz. I would encourage most people to think about killing an animal to eat atleast once in their life - and 100% agree they must ensure it is done humanely. Its not hard to knock a fish on the head and be shown how to gut it.
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by PaddyT » 05 Dec 2018, 7:52 am

I just hate waste- if its a fish or a deer and im going to kill it then I feel i should eat it- weekend before last I took the 6.5 for a walk in a state forest and found a lot of rabbits- shot one to christen the rifle (50M offhand shot)- missed the head and got the shoulder and guts- so rabbit was not suitable for taking home- saw a lot more bunnies after that and didnt take another shot- will go back in the next few weeks with the 22 and take a few for a feed. As for fish i do a fair bit of marlin fishing-weve only ever killed one out of about 20 and that got turned into marlin steaks (which are pretty good), i do accept that sooner or later i will kill another one (if it gets stuffed in the fight) and thats the way it goes. Some fish are automatic release candidates for me like marlin, kingfish over 1m, jewies around the same, flatties over 70cm etc. As for hunting- its just a matter of deciding before i pull the trigger- pests are a bit different- carp, foxes, wild dogs- kill 'em all- because of the destruction they cause to our native species- mind you- I only fish for trout when im hungry ! I also believe fish should be killed immediately upon capture (brain spiking or a good whack between the ears) and put in an ice slurry- its quick and makes a vast difference to their eating. Do i feel guilt over this-no but generally pretty thankful that I have the chance to do it!
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by TassieTiger » 05 Dec 2018, 9:46 am

Some really encouraging responses in here...it’s good to hear that in the majority, hunters are at least mindful of their actions - I think in this day and age, hunting / hunters are becoming less and less and that’s not necessarily a good thing. It’s only In the last 30 years people have become detached - as society has built insanely huge meat processing factories.
My 14 yr old loves target shooting and eating meat but can’t bring himself to kill an animal yet, which is fine - but the time is fast approaching when he is going to be shown exactly what IS involved when taking an animal and prepping it for eating - I like others, think this is extremely important - it’s life education and basic reality.
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by Bent Arrow » 05 Dec 2018, 11:32 am

OK, so I'm putting my "this will be controversial" hat on for a moment.......

I used to be an absolutely mad keen, totally obsessed angler. I've had some part time work as a deckie on charter boats, and used to be a very strong advocate for catch and release fishing, and even have a degree in fisheries management and aquaculture. I know a lot has been learnt from recreational fish tagging programs, but as I've come to understand more and more about fish survival rates and non-lethal impacts from angling, I've completely lost my appetite for sports fishing including going out fishing specifically with an intent to catch and release. To me it fits in the basket of harassing animals simply for my own entertainment/amusement which no longer passes the day light test for me. Whilst I'll happily go fishing to get a feed, it's the inability to very specifically target the animal you want, and knowing that I'm disadvantaging any fish I catch but don't keep because I don't want them or legally can't keep them that bugs me.

There, that ought to stir the pot.........
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by PaddyT » 05 Dec 2018, 11:42 am

All good points , fishing is a "blood sport" if its C&R or otherwise but a lot of species have excellent survival rates if done properly and the survival rate of a dead fish on deck is exactly zero-so - will still release a lot of certain fish- will kill quite a lot too, I mainly use lures and techniques that avoid guthooking fish but as you say some of the released fish will die, would still rather get out for a fish than sit on a fricken beach and stare at the waves!
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by Bigjobss » 05 Dec 2018, 1:23 pm

Not controversial to me, I dont believe survival rates from release are too impressive for me to be comfortable, some species respond better or worse than others but I practice fillet and release unless it is illegal to do so. If I have a bag I stop fishing.
Then again I am Victorian and down here we dont have a massive sport fishery, even still I keep big sharks, tuna, mulloway whenever I get the chance.
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by TassieTiger » 05 Dec 2018, 1:35 pm

I mentioned this previously- it’s completely hypocritical of me, the way I treat fishing vs hunting. I’ll try and catch my limit without any care in the world and I’ll throw the fish in a bucket..squid, whiting, flathead, what ever to die and won’t care (although I’m thinking different after this thread)..I have a freezer - so most fish will be eaten eventually - no second thought at all....BUT...Then I’ll be lining up a wallaby and think right - are you sure of the shot, are you prepared to dress the animal, and the possibility of having to dispatch a young Joey, etc ...it’s internal bulls**t and makes no sense. It gets worse...
If I catch a field mouse in the house - it’s dead...no question. If I see one scurrying in the field out of the way of the ride on - I’ll go around it. It’s insane.
I mean i could take it a step further - why should spiders have any less right to live than a fish or a deer? ... okay...too far, I know. Screw the spiders. I’ll burn the house down trying to get a huntsmen and then move house if I don’t find the crisp body.
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by Archie » 05 Dec 2018, 2:34 pm

Bent Arrow wrote:OK, so I'm putting my "this will be controversial" hat on for a moment.......

I used to be an absolutely mad keen, totally obsessed angler. I've had some part time work as a deckie on charter boats, and used to be a very strong advocate for catch and release fishing, and even have a degree in fisheries management and aquaculture. I know a lot has been learnt from recreational fish tagging programs, but as I've come to understand more and more about fish survival rates and non-lethal impacts from angling, I've completely lost my appetite for sports fishing including going out fishing specifically with an intent to catch and release. To me it fits in the basket of harassing animals simply for my own entertainment/amusement which no longer passes the day light test for me. Whilst I'll happily go fishing to get a feed, it's the inability to very specifically target the animal you want, and knowing that I'm disadvantaging any fish I catch but don't keep because I don't want them or legally can't keep them that bugs me.

There, that ought to stir the pot.........


I love fishing, but I have never understood catch and release fishing. And to be honest like you I feel a bit conflicted about it, even though I do fish and hunt, enjoy it and have no intention of stopping.

Imagine what the response would be if the way we got meat was to hide hooks in grass and then when a lamb bit it, we dragged the poor thing to the edge of the paddock by its lip, winding it in on monafilament using a winch. One look at that and the whole nation would turn vegetarian in a week.

Then imagine we didn't eat it but instead took a photo while holding it up by the leg, and released it in the hope that some other bastard could enjoy doing the same thing to it again next year.
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Dec 2018, 4:06 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Screw the spiders. I’ll burn the house down trying to get a huntsmen and then move house if I don’t find the crisp body.


You'd have trouble living with me then, we love our spiders and snakes :-)
When we were moving the cattle to the other block a friendly huntsman popped out of the visor in the 'Cruiser :-)
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by TassieTiger » 05 Dec 2018, 4:48 pm

There’s my reason for owning multiple 12g’....in case I miss....several bloody times like.
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by Bent Arrow » 05 Dec 2018, 5:26 pm

PaddyT wrote:All good points , fishing is a "blood sport" if its C&R or otherwise but a lot of species have excellent survival rates if done properly and the survival rate of a dead fish on deck is exactly zero-so - will still release a lot of certain fish- will kill quite a lot too, I mainly use lures and techniques that avoid guthooking fish but as you say some of the released fish will die, would still rather get out for a fish than sit on a fricken beach and stare at the waves!


Survival rates are dependent on a whole lot of stuff, some of which is, and some of which isn't within your control. I have no qualms about brain spiking a fish and slipping it into an ice sluury if I'm going to eat it.

Depending on the species and depth of water, a lightly hooked fish that is quickly and carefully released has a reasonable chance of survival, so releasing undersized fish is legitimate and ethical. Deliberately setting out to catch and release is totally legal, but it doesn't align with my ethical/moral compass any more.

People often justify catch and release fishing by saying that they are doing the fishery a favour by not taking those fish out of the population. Honestly, they'd do the fishery a bigger favour by not drawing on it all. It's kind of (sort of) like people that claim their primary motivation for hunting is to control feral animals, but are very selective about what they shoot, get the s**ts on when government agencies want to implement intensive cull programs that might knock the local population down, or pissed off when farmers realise those pesky goats are actually worth something and start rounding them up and stopping/limiting hunters from shooting what has now become livestock to many farmers. People just need to be realistic about the ramifications of their actions, be upfront and accountable, and not use hypocritical arguments to defend their choices.

If you get a big buzz out of catching fish your not going to eat, why not target some of the introduced freshwater species that are over abundant and pull hard?
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by marksman » 05 Dec 2018, 8:19 pm

I have to say that after my first child was born I shot a hare that was pregers, the fetuses resembled a human baby to me and it put me off quite a bit
it also made me wanting more accuracy for head shots or shots that are bang flop
when culling roo's I have to put down the young in the pouch if there is any and I dont like doing that at all either :thumbsdown:
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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by trekin » 06 Dec 2018, 4:04 am

TassieTiger wrote:I mentioned this previously- it’s completely hypocritical of me, the way I treat fishing vs hunting. I’ll try and catch my limit without any care in the world and I’ll throw the fish in a bucket..squid, whiting, flathead, what ever to die and won’t care (although I’m thinking different after this thread)..I have a freezer - so most fish will be eaten eventually - no second thought at all....BUT...Then I’ll be lining up a wallaby and think right - are you sure of the shot, are you prepared to dress the animal, and the possibility of having to dispatch a young Joey, etc ...it’s internal bulls**t and makes no sense. It gets worse...
If I catch a field mouse in the house - it’s dead...no question. If I see one scurrying in the field out of the way of the ride on - I’ll go around it. It’s insane.
I mean i could take it a step further - why should spiders have any less right to live than a fish or a deer? ... okay...too far, I know. Screw the spiders. I’ll burn the house down trying to get a huntsmen and then move house if I don’t find the crisp body.

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Re: For want of a conversation - hunters remorse?

Post by PaddyT » 06 Dec 2018, 10:34 am

Bent Arrow wrote:
PaddyT wrote:All good points , fishing is a "blood sport" if its C&R or otherwise but a lot of species have excellent survival rates if done properly and the survival rate of a dead fish on deck is exactly zero-so - will still release a lot of certain fish- will kill quite a lot too, I mainly use lures and techniques that avoid guthooking fish but as you say some of the released fish will die, would still rather get out for a fish than sit on a fricken beach and stare at the waves!


Survival rates are dependent on a whole lot of stuff, some of which is, and some of which isn't within your control. I have no qualms about brain spiking a fish and slipping it into an ice sluury if I'm going to eat it.

Depending on the species and depth of water, a lightly hooked fish that is quickly and carefully released has a reasonable chance of survival, so releasing undersized fish is legitimate and ethical. Deliberately setting out to catch and release is totally legal, but it doesn't align with my ethical/moral compass any more.

People often justify catch and release fishing by saying that they are doing the fishery a favour by not taking those fish out of the population. Honestly, they'd do the fishery a bigger favour by not drawing on it all. It's kind of (sort of) like people that claim their primary motivation for hunting is to control feral animals, but are very selective about what they shoot, get the s**ts on when government agencies want to implement intensive cull programs that might knock the local population down, or pissed off when farmers realise those pesky goats are actually worth something and start rounding them up and stopping/limiting hunters from shooting what has now become livestock to many farmers. People just need to be realistic about the ramifications of their actions, be upfront and accountable, and not use hypocritical arguments to defend their choices.

If you get a big buzz out of catching fish your not going to eat, why not target some of the introduced freshwater species that are over abundant and pull hard?

Carp? couldnt be bothered- sure a lot of the demersal species have poor survival rates especially if they have had barotrauma, and as for bothering a fish to submission on very light line, thats not really my go. Most pelagics release pretty well or can be revived to the point of a successful release, as i said a sure way to kill a fish is drop it on the deck and cut its throat, if it goes back it has a chance to survive. If i am fishing demersals in deeper water (which generally bores me to tears) then i stop fishing when i have enough for a feed. I dont see any scientific evidence that fish feel pain in the same way higher order animals do so i certainly dont see my actions as hypocritical- the PETA campaigns showing dogs with hooks in there mouths are pure hysterical BS as far as i am concerned, and fishing still remains a more "acceptable action" in our current society than hunting so I can only imagine that the downfall of fishing as a recreational activity would be long preceded by the downfall of hunting. I make a legislated choice to release all fish i catch that are outside size/bag limits and I make a personal choice to release fish that I think would be better off left in the water eg marlin, large breeding females(flathead etc) AND to your final point I accept the ramifications of my actions without having to justify it to anyone!
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