Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need it

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Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need it

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2018, 5:32 pm

https://www.facebook.com/jay.maisano.5/videos/1111986868962765/?t=6

I don't know how to link it other than via Facebook unfortunately.
If somebody is able to save the video and provide a link to it for the non-FB users it would help get the message out. Although I'm sure it'll show up on Youtube very soon.

As for putting a round in the chamber and then tossing your rifle on your shoulder and relying on the safety...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by ponkychonk » 09 Dec 2018, 5:34 pm

Any chance of a summary?
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 09 Dec 2018, 6:14 pm

I just watched a bit of it...but i dont have facebook...

A slip that resulted in a freak accident...

2 mates out hunting...
stalking 2 animals...
shoot one...
they chamber rounds & walk toward the dead bull..
one claims he had safety on but carried his rifle in such a way that the safety disengages without him knowing....
they see other animal...
one lines it up...
the other slips & his rifle goes off in front of him mortally wounding his mate...he claims to only have had hold of the barrel with one hand & his other hand never touched the rifle...i guess he's saying it went off all by itself while momentarily pointed at his mate...
his mate died there. ..

Clearly a fair bit of complacency when it comes to carrying a loaded firearm & not having an acute level of muzzle awareness at all times...

To just rely on a safety is crazy especially considering when that sear gives way the result is finite :crazy: ...if need one up the spout at least be uncocked as well as safety...especially the way he describes carrying the rifle...

Would be hard to live with yourself being in his shoes i rekon...
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2018, 6:15 pm

ponkychonk wrote:Any chance of a summary?


Okay, essentially, a guy has accidentally, but fatally, shot his mate while elk hunting.
Walking up on one he just dropped and hoping to get his buddy as well, they chamber rounds, apply safeties.
Then he tosses his rifle onto his shoulder, muzzle forward, which almost certainly manages to disengage the safety against his pack.
He then takes rifle from his shoulder to move into position, slips in the slush (snowing), rifle goes bang, best mate dies very quickly.
Incredibly sad story.

They are using it to push hunters to not rely on their safeties, citing an extraordinary number of ND's that apparently never come to light. He admits himself that despite carrying his rifles in such a way he has never had an ND in forty-years of hunting, but apparently ND's are happening to everybody all the time.

Now, it may be that in the US this is at least somewhat true, and if this incident fixes the mentality it's awesome. Personally, I don't think we have a problem to anything like the extent they're claiming. I would hazard that a lot of shooters have had an ND, perhaps even most of them, but generally one is enough to learn the lesson. The lesson being, don't chamber a round until you wish to fire your firearm, and clear it immediately afterwards.

ND being a Negligent Discharge.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 09 Dec 2018, 6:19 pm

When was this supposed to have happened Blade...?
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2018, 6:22 pm

Stix wrote:When was this supposed to have happened Blade...?


November 2nd.
Jay Maisano is the survivor, Mike Drexler is the deceased. Ron Brown is the third man who witnessed it but was collecting their vehicle at the time.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by ClaytonT88 » 09 Dec 2018, 6:32 pm

A harrowing experience and further reinforcement of what I get told when ever I've been around guns. Don't chamber until you're pointing at the target.

Sounds like everyone involved (Mike's family) is as understanding as they can be but I'd hate to be in his shoes.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigrich » 09 Dec 2018, 6:36 pm

tragic. sorry to hear about this. myself, i have ammo in the mag, but the bolt closed on a empty chamber until i see something to shoot at. safety is very easy to get complacent with. a timely reminder :cry:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2018, 7:19 pm

Stix wrote:...if need one up the spout at least be uncocked as well as safety...


And be aware that a lot of firearms are unsafe to have them uncocked on a live round, like many bolt-action milsurps. When the striker is "at rest" it is actually pressed tight against the primer under the striker spring tension, ready to fire at the slightest knock to the bolt shroud, or if you bang the butt hard enough. If your striker pokes through the bolt face when it is uncocked never lower the striker on a live round.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Blr243 » 09 Dec 2018, 7:37 pm

ALWAYS KEEP THE BARREL POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION Its always been the most important and will for me be the most essential safety rule ever If I’m excited or tired or the gun hoes off or I bump the trigger or the rifle gets a sudden jolt I’m still ok. Never had an incident but if I do My friend and I are still alive because my barrel is always pointed in a safe direction
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigrich » 09 Dec 2018, 8:20 pm

Blr243 wrote:ALWAYS KEEP THE BARREL POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION Its always been the most important and will for me be the most essential safety rule ever If I’m excited or tired or the gun hoes off or I bump the trigger or the rifle gets a sudden jolt I’m still ok. Never had an incident but if I do My friend and I are still alive because my barrel is always pointed in a safe direction


that's "THE" fundamental rule my friend :thumbsup:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by marksman » 09 Dec 2018, 9:14 pm

you can have a round in the chamber and be safe, lots of mistakes made by this guy

but as said ALWAYS POINT THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION and a safe direction depends on where you are
a safe direction is if there was an accidental discharge there would be no risk of loss of life or injury or damage to property
cover the trigger guard with your trigger finger till you are ready to take a shot
use the safety on your firearm as recommended by the manufacturer, to many mistakes are made when you take shortcuts
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by TassieTiger » 10 Dec 2018, 2:55 am

bigrich wrote:
Blr243 wrote:ALWAYS KEEP THE BARREL POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION Its always been the most important and will for me be the most essential safety rule ever If I’m excited or tired or the gun hoes off or I bump the trigger or the rifle gets a sudden jolt I’m still ok. Never had an incident but if I do My friend and I are still alive because my barrel is always pointed in a safe direction


that's "THE" fundamental rule my friend :thumbsup:


Agree 100% but...I think this guy probably lived by the same rule by the sounds of it ...in the process of falling / slipping, he has (like many would) concentrated on not going arse over tit and whilst doing so has for only a brief but very sad micro second, accidentally pointed/discharged his firearm at his friend. It’s easy to say - it couldn’t happen to me but if your footing gave way below you?

I’ve lost a few friends and refuse to shoot with others whom I’ve seen be too careless with muzzle awareness...sadly it seems this one time, several minor infractions have lined up to ultimately lead to a disaster.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 10 Dec 2018, 8:38 am

I can't fathom any degree of safety awareness in having a hot rifle anywhere other than in your hands.
He had it on his shoulder, putting forward, holding the barrel, while walking in snow, with a buddy, and no target in sight...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Dec 2018, 8:49 am

bladeracer wrote:I can't fathom any degree of safety awareness in having a hot rifle anywhere other than in your hands.
He had it on his shoulder, putting forward, holding the barrel, while walking in snow, with a buddy, and no target in sight...


Ya don't wanna join the army then! They were always cocked and loaded and safety on! :D

My way of hunting as it were is to just chamber one as I need it, to me that's the safest way to roll and I honestly don't care if something runs off before I get a chance at a shot, much rather come home safely than worry about a missed opportunity. :thumbsup:

When out spotlighting I pretty much operate the same, spot some eyeshine, chamber a round and take the shot if opp resents if no opp, I unchamber the round and push it back in the mag (that's why I love internal mags) and let the person driving know the firearm is now safe. It's just second nature to me now.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 10 Dec 2018, 10:22 am

bigfellascott wrote:Ya don't wanna join the army then! They were always cocked and loaded and safety on! :D

My way of hunting as it were is to just chamber one as I need it, to me that's the safest way to roll and I honestly don't care if something runs off before I get a chance at a shot, much rather come home safely than worry about a missed opportunity. :thumbsup:

When out spotlighting I pretty much operate the same, spot some eyeshine, chamber a round and take the shot if opp resents if no opp, I unchamber the round and push it back in the mag (that's why I love internal mags) and let the person driving know the firearm is now safe. It's just second nature to me now.


I thought the modern military was much the same, issue live ammo only when the s**t hits the fan, can't have any accidents ;-)

On the race track we are reminded at every rider briefing that we're only doing this for fun, there is no reason to get killed or kill a mate just for fun. Shooting and hunting are the same - it's just for fun, and safety always trumps fun!
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by TassieTiger » 10 Dec 2018, 12:58 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Ya don't wanna join the army then! They were always cocked and loaded and safety on! :D

My way of hunting as it were is to just chamber one as I need it, to me that's the safest way to roll and I honestly don't care if something runs off before I get a chance at a shot, much rather come home safely than worry about a missed opportunity. :thumbsup:

When out spotlighting I pretty much operate the same, spot some eyeshine, chamber a round and take the shot if opp resents if no opp, I unchamber the round and push it back in the mag (that's why I love internal mags) and let the person driving know the firearm is now safe. It's just second nature to me now.


I thought the modern military was much the same, issue live ammo only when the s**t hits the fan, can't have any accidents ;-)

On the race track we are reminded at every rider briefing that we're only doing this for fun, there is no reason to get killed or kill a mate just for fun. Shooting and hunting are the same - it's just for fun, and safety always trumps fun!


Until the red mist comes down and then it’s game on....
After doing a hundred or so track days over the years, bought my missus a track bike and took her to her first ride day at Baskerville.
Organisers decided to let 4 A grade guys go out and “bed” some brakes in...these absolute fu$@%* ended up getting into a ya e carving up learners and passed my wife at approximately 240kmh on back straight...
3 women I know of - walked away never to return to track days from that one incident...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 10 Dec 2018, 1:07 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Until the red mist comes down and then it’s game on....
After doing a hundred or so track days over the years, bought my missus a track bike and took her to her first ride day at Baskerville.
Organisers decided to let 4 A grade guys go out and “bed” some brakes in...these absolute fu$@%* ended up getting into a ya e carving up learners and passed my wife at approximately 240kmh on back straight...
3 women I know of - walked away never to return to track days from that one incident...


That is bloody stupid of the organisers!
Track day groups should always be riding in graded groups based on experience.
I have been on track with novices and we always give them a wide berth and pass only on the straights. I have also stayed behind them to get video that they can use to learn from.
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