Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need it

[bigrich]

As for foreigners and their lack of knowledge of surf, I don't think a lot of em have much in the way of access to the types of coastlines like we do so not surprised at their lack of knowledge about how dangerous it can be. [/quote]

yeh i know. i think it probably comes back to all the sheeple living in their phones instead of the real world. no practicle usable common sense

[Member-Deleted]

Very sad and wouldn't like to be in his shoes
I never use my safety on my rifles because I treat them as if they don't have one when readying for a shot I put the bullet in and leave the bolt open
until I sight up if the shot doesn't eventuate then I remove the bullet I have never in my life relied on a safety on a rifle
I had an old Remington once and I had loaded it to take a shot at a pig the pig moved and I never took the shot BUT!! half way through removing
the bolt the rifle went off lucky I always point it at the ground whilst removing bullets and this was one case where it could have ended like old mates
and lost a mate we looked and found the catch on the pin to trigger was worn the previous owner would have known this as I had only owned the rifle for 3mths and hadn't used it very often I tried it several times that day and it did the same after every 3-4 shots but I was doing it on dry runs no bullet
Took the rifle home and with the fright I received from it's discharge I put the oxy through it and scrapped it those day's we weren't licenced so didn't have to hand the bits in
Always safety first !

[Stix]

Same here
I dont use safety on rifles at all...only use on the shotty with my thumb straddling the switch while off on a stroll.
I mostly hunt or spotlight by myself & im always checking my chamber even though ive not touched it since i last checked it...thats the annoying ocd when alone...

I wouldnt even know if the safety works on a couple rifles i have...but ill check em on the weekend...

And im same as Blade...i cannot for the life of me walk around with a rifle slung over my shoulder that has one up the spout...just cant do it--my worrysone mind is too paranoid it'll go off n give me a throbbing headache...

Im also paranoid to be in the cabin of a ute if shooter on the back & refuse to be in the cabin if i dont know its an experienced anal retentive muzzle aware safety nut behind the rifle personally...lucky i spotlight by myself most of the time...

I just dont get how complacent those guys are...or were...
Gives me the heebee geebies...

[bigfellascott]

OCD isn't a bad thing to have when it comes to firearms safety, I'm the same and keep checking with others when we are out spotlighting or hunting - better safe than sorry.

[TassieTiger]

My parents have told me how a gun fell over in my room when I was 3 putting a hole in the adjacent wall - I cringe at the what if’s, but they retort - that’s the way it used to be..,guns in wardrobes with one up the spout....shudder...

[bigfellascott]

My parents have told me how a gun fell over in my room when I was 3 putting a hole in the adjacent wall - I cringe at the what if’s, but they retort - that’s the way it used to be..,guns in wardrobes with one up the spout....shudder...

It's still that way in America - The land of Freedom my arse, the land of halfwits more like it!

[Stix]

OCD isn't a bad thing to have when it comes to firearms safety, I'm the same and keep checking with others when we are out spotlighting or hunting - better safe than sorry.

Yea bang on bigfella...im with you there--good way to be...

Although few months ago it got the better of me...after a 45 min chase through (from memory) 4 paddocks, id chambered & removed a round atleast 3 times...
Finally i out clevered him & got a simple broadside shot on him at 100ish yds...
Lifted & closed to cock the bolt on the round (i thought) i had in the chamber thinking i finally gotcha...

"CLICK"


He saundered over the hill while i fumbled the bolt frantically tryin to slam a round down the spout.


I was so dam angry at myself at the time ..but i remain accidental discharge free because of that ocd. Touch wood the opposite doesnt happen...

I can laugh now, but boy i was a filthy sort of bitchin narky that night...!

[Stix]

My parents have told me how a gun fell over in my room when I was 3 putting a hole in the adjacent wall - I cringe at the what if’s, but they retort - that’s the way it used to be..,guns in wardrobes with one up the spout....shudder...

It's still that way in America - The land of Freedom my arse, the land of halfwits more like it!

I heard a story from a friend iof the family who had a mate in the army who was behind the counter at the Keswick barraks during the big 90's "Howard hand-in"...
Apparently there were a few shots per day that rang out in the line-up, from reponsible gun owners who stored their firearms safely...

Not sure how true it is--id guess, or like to think its atleast an exaggeration of the truth...but ive no doubt there were a few clowns around the country in that line up who had a round chambered.

[TassieTiger]

Everyone on here has been through the gun handlers course and if like me, you’d think - that course was as safe as it could get...
But a couple months back, a student got shot at a local course (Brighton Tas) by a .22 LR in the foot/leg...details are sketchy on how it happened but it was reported on local media...

[Stix]

Everyone on here has been through the gun handlers course and if like me, you’d think - that course was as safe as it could get...

Tassie...my little grasshopper...

Im hazzarding an educated giess that there are a lot...& i mean A LOT of members here that have never done the gun handlers course...

I grew up shooting & chasing bunnies & getting my gun license was so important to me...!!

I couldnt get out of bed for anything but going shootin...& on my 16th b'day i got my backside outa bed & caught the bus down to the local cop shop, answered maybe a dozen (?) very basic multiple choice questions & walked out with my firearms licence. .

Never did a course ever...
But i could safely operate all the old mans firearms safely & i was bought up with muzzle awareness almost literally being punched into my head...so much so that to this day its all i instinctively think about if i see a gun.

There are many more here, that like me we just filled out a form to get our license

Not having done a "handlers course" doesnt mean i didnt have a teacher tho...

I still remember ine day as a young fella i jumped a fence with the .410 in my hand...i can still feel the ol'mans voice shattering my entire being...!!

It may have been safe, but i dont recall having ever done it since.

[Archie]

I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?

[Rod_outbak]

When the CQ police were doing one of their Glock conversions at the range at Emerald(QLD), one of the trainees nearly shot the instructor and senior officer.
AD while putting the Glock back into the plastic container it came in; no-one had properly checked that the weapon was clear...
[The container had some sort of post that goes through the trigger guard when the handgun is placed back into it?? Never seen one up close myself..]

Thankfully, the round ploughed into the dirt beside them, and a brown-trousers moment was enjoyed by all....

Serious failing on behalf of the officer who was operating the Glock, the range officer, etc etc etc.

Never heard if anyone was prosecuted for THAT crime...

For me, carrying a loaded weapon is all about risk assessment. If I'm walking on my own, and there's no-one around for miles, I tend to carry the rifle loaded and safed. I never point it towards myself, or in the direction of any buildings etc. I unload it when I stop and or am putting the rifle down.
If there's anyone with me, or if there's more activity in the immediate area, I carry the rifle with the chamber empty, but with a full mag locked in, and regularly check the chamber to be sure.

If I'm out on the motorbike, I tend to carry the 1911 with an empty chamber, unless I've sighted something to shoot. Then, I'll chamber a round, safe it, and back in the holster. The holster (Galco Duty holster??) points the muzzle down behind the side of the bike, so low chance of an AD doing much more than maybe burning my arse, and scaring the crap out of me. My 1911 is Single-action-only, and I dont trust lowering the hammer on a live chamber.
Again; I dont carry the handgun cocked & locked if there is anyone else around.

I also have to tell you, that when I'm (alone) investigating tall bullrushes along the creek, and I can hear oinky noises in the near distance, I suck my testicles up tight, have EVERYTHING loaded, locked and safe, say a tiny little prayer to the Phukup Fairy to 'Sod OFF!' for an hour or two, and gingerly make my way along the trail on the edge of the creek; about as twitchy as a cat who's snorted speed with his third triple-shot espresso for breakfast.
[or like TassieTiger when he's seen a Daddy Long-Legs...]

But that's just me...

[pomemax]

Knew a bloke who used to carry a round up the spout till he forgot one day put the firearm in the back of the ute when changing paddocks shot himself in the back near his butt .22

[TassieTiger]

Everyone on here has been through the gun handlers course and if like me, you’d think - that course was as safe as it could get...

Tassie...my little grasshopper...

Im hazzarding an educated giess that there are a lot...& i mean A LOT of members here that have never done the gun handlers course...

I grew up shooting & chasing bunnies & getting my gun license was so important to me...!!

I couldnt get out of bed for anything but going shootin...& on my 16th b'day i got my backside outa bed & caught the bus down to the local cop shop, answered maybe a dozen (?) very basic multiple choice questions & walked out with my firearms licence. .

Never did a course ever...
But i could safely operate all the old mans firearms safely & i was bought up with muzzle awareness almost literally being punched into my head...so much so that to this day its all i instinctively think about if i see a gun.

There are many more here, that like me we just filled out a form to get our license

Not having done a "handlers course" doesnt mean i didnt have a teacher tho...

I still remember ine day as a young fella i jumped a fence with the .410 in my hand...i can still feel the ol'mans voice shattering my entire being...!!

It may have been safe, but i dont recall having ever done it since.

Thank you Kimosavi(or how ever you spell that ) - I tootally forgot that you could apply early on for a licence without having to do said course...But now having done that course - its pretty insane and over the top.
Your .22 is locked down to a block with chain, restricting movement completely and you are handed 1 x .22 cartridge at a time until you have fired 10 rounds. The thing is - the blocks and chain are so tight that you couldnt fukn miss if you wanted to lol.

Side note
lol.
I will never forget living in Browns plains (QLD) a few lives ago and a party some distance away was getting out of hand and I could hear bullets being fired off and yahooing. All good fun until I hear the tinker on the roof and decided to call the cops and tell them that ppl were shooting wildly. THIRTY MINUTES Later - they called back to ask if the shooting had ceased...unbeknlviable.

[Urastus]

I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?

I was having a similar thought with the rubber band. You can also make a loop through the band with a nylone tie, so it's easy to grab. I have parking brakes on my MTB's like that.

[Urastus]

Well here's a doozy Those leather toe guards for trap shooters. You thread it through your laces - it's suppose to protect your boot when you rest the end of the barrel on it Sure, I imagine they all have their actions broken, of course.

[Urastus]

I still remember ine day as a young fella i jumped a fence with the .410 in my hand...i can still feel the ol'mans voice shattering my entire being...!!

It may have been safe, but i dont recall having ever done it since.

It used to be a pretty common accident area - climbing through fences with firearms. As a kid I remember a local bloke who shot himself getting through a fence. Leaning the rifle against the fence probably.

[Stix]

I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?

Only one place for rubbers...& i just deleted what i wrote here...but it did include such words as drunk...& ugly...


So is the rubber band because you dont trust yourself, or your awareness to not know if you've closed the bolt...?
If thats the case & you're that worried why have a round in there..?

Not having a go at all Archie...just trying to understand the need for a rubber band holding up the bolt...

I would hate anything obstructing the action on my rifles...absolutely hate it...i want controll...

Is there any chance when you fire a round the recoil & rubber band lifts the bolt causing it to fly back & wedge in your eye socket...?

If i approach say an area of land where i may need to get a shot off real quick, i pre chamber a round & have the bolt up in that "notch" if you know what i mean with thumb over the bolt & finger over trigger guard ready to go...

My experience tells me it is only fatigue &/or laziness that prevents me to carry a rifle for extended periods of time in the manner i mention above--as holding the rifle in such a way is not what id call "relaxing" for the right hand...& if thats the case-fatigue or laziness kicks in, there comes a much higher risk of an accident...
In which case, i empty the chamber...just not worth the risk...its just not...

This happened to me earlier this year...came face to face with mr fox on the outskirts of farm infrastructure after a long 2 hour morning walk with the 204...i was pretty fatigued so i emptied the chamber....so instead of mr fox gettig a smack to the heart from a round i already had in the chamber, he got chased away by hastily chambered & wasted rounds...but i rather that than fatigue or cramp in the trigger hand with a live one ready to go...

Each to his own Archie...if that works for you & is always safe, then its a good thing...but like i said id hate something around my bolt...

[Archie]

I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?

Only one place for rubbers...& i just deleted what i wrote here...but it did include such words as drunk...& ugly...


So is the rubber band because you dont trust yourself, or your awareness to not know if you've closed the bolt...?
If thats the case & you're that worried why have a round in there..?

Not having a go at all Archie...just trying to understand the need for a rubber band holding up the bolt...

I would hate anything obstructing the action on my rifles...absolutely hate it...i want controll...

Is there any chance when you fire a round the recoil & rubber band lifts the bolt causing it to fly back & wedge in your eye socket...?

If i approach say an area of land where i may need to get a shot off real quick, i pre chamber a round & have the bolt up in that "notch" if you know what i mean with thumb over the bolt & finger over trigger guard ready to go...

My experience tells me it is only fatigue &/or laziness that prevents me to carry a rifle for extended periods of time in the manner i mention above--as holding the rifle in such a way is not what id call "relaxing" for the right hand...& if thats the case-fatigue or laziness kicks in, there comes a much higher risk of an accident...
In which case, i empty the chamber...just not worth the risk...its just not...

This happened to me earlier this year...came face to face with mr fox on the outskirts of farm infrastructure after a long 2 hour morning walk with the 204...i was pretty fatigued so i emptied the chamber....so instead of mr fox gettig a smack to the heart from a round i already had in the chamber, he got chased away by hastily chambered & wasted rounds...but i rather that than fatigue or cramp in the trigger hand with a live one ready to go...

Each to his own Archie...if that works for you & is always safe, then its a good thing...but like i said id hate something around my bolt...

Couple of reasons. The main one is it requires more positive force to fully close the bolt than if I just had it chambered with the bolt handle still up. That reduces the chance of the bolt closing because it gets knocked against something - say if I fall and land on the rifle, or if I drop the rifle. Most of where I hunt is fairly hilly bush country so even watching what you're doing its always a real risk.So basically I'm doing the same thing you do with the bolt in the "notch" except that this way it requires a bit more force to fully close it.

I don't feel it reduces my control in a meaningful way, and it makes me 1/ faster than not having a round chambered at all and 2/ more comfortable with having a round chambered than I would be without it. Its a bit of a compromise between the two.

In terms the bolt opening because of the band combined with recoil, it's not likely. Firstly because it takes more force - the main rifle I use that technique on is a proper mauser style extractor, no way is that coming up easy. Second is because once the bolt handle is pushed down the end of the rubber band slips up the bolt handle closer to the receiver so it has less tension in it than when the bolt is open.

[Urastus]

So, I'm guessing the bolt is up to the point where the firing pin mechanism is about to be pushed back?

[Urastus]

I haven't been hunting with a rifle since I was a kid. I'd have to try and work my way close to rabbits most of the time, to get in range. A single shot with open sites, and there was no such thing as range time or target practice. Fortunately, I could have the bolt pushed home on a round before trying to sneak up. The bolt wasn't cocked till I pulled the back of the bolt rearwards. I could do this noiselessly just before taking aim. There's no way I could have worked a bolt and shot rabbits - they were all pretty jumpy and one shot was all you got.

[Bigjobss]

Ive always wondered about having the bolt open because most (mauser) based actions are cock on open so wont mean that the pin is retracted when the bolt is up and a round is chambered? Surely this is another mechanism in place preventing release of the pin?
So would then an enfield style cock on close be safer with a round chambered and bolt up?

[bladeracer]

Ive always wondered about having the bolt open because most (mauser) based actions are cock on open so wont mean that the pin is retracted when the bolt is up and a round is chambered? Surely this is another mechanism in place preventing release of the pin?
So would then an enfield style cock on close be safer with a round chambered and bolt up?

Yes, Mauser-type actions are safe while the bolt handle is up, whether cock-on-open or cock-on-close.
I generally carry with the bolt handle up on a live round if I'm close to taking a shot, or bolt handle down, uncocked on an empty chamber if there's no shot in sight. Those style of actions are very obvious to see that they're uncocked. More modern styles have a completely enshrouded cocking piece so you can't tell by looking at them if they're cocked or not.

[Stix]

I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?

Only one place for rubbers...& i just deleted what i wrote here...but it did include such words as drunk...& ugly...


So is the rubber band because you dont trust yourself, or your awareness to not know if you've closed the bolt...?
If thats the case & you're that worried why have a round in there..?

Not having a go at all Archie...just trying to understand the need for a rubber band holding up the bolt...

I would hate anything obstructing the action on my rifles...absolutely hate it...i want controll...

Is there any chance when you fire a round the recoil & rubber band lifts the bolt causing it to fly back & wedge in your eye socket...?

If i approach say an area of land where i may need to get a shot off real quick, i pre chamber a round & have the bolt up in that "notch" if you know what i mean with thumb over the bolt & finger over trigger guard ready to go...

My experience tells me it is only fatigue &/or laziness that prevents me to carry a rifle for extended periods of time in the manner i mention above--as holding the rifle in such a way is not what id call "relaxing" for the right hand...& if thats the case-fatigue or laziness kicks in, there comes a much higher risk of an accident...
In which case, i empty the chamber...just not worth the risk...its just not...

This happened to me earlier this year...came face to face with mr fox on the outskirts of farm infrastructure after a long 2 hour morning walk with the 204...i was pretty fatigued so i emptied the chamber....so instead of mr fox gettig a smack to the heart from a round i already had in the chamber, he got chased away by hastily chambered & wasted rounds...but i rather that than fatigue or cramp in the trigger hand with a live one ready to go...

Each to his own Archie...if that works for you & is always safe, then its a good thing...but like i said id hate something around my bolt...

Couple of reasons. The main one is it requires more positive force to fully close the bolt than if I just had it chambered with the bolt handle still up. That reduces the chance of the bolt closing because it gets knocked against something - say if I fall and land on the rifle, or if I drop the rifle. Most of where I hunt is fairly hilly bush country so even watching what you're doing its always a real risk.So basically I'm doing the same thing you do with the bolt in the "notch" except that this way it requires a bit more force to fully close it.

I don't feel it reduces my control in a meaningful way, and it makes me 1/ faster than not having a round chambered at all and 2/ more comfortable with having a round chambered than I would be without it. Its a bit of a compromise between the two.

In terms the bolt opening because of the band combined with recoil, it's not likely. Firstly because it takes more force - the main rifle I use that technique on is a proper mauser style extractor, no way is that coming up easy. Second is because once the bolt handle is pushed down the end of the rubber band slips up the bolt handle closer to the receiver so it has less tension in it than when the bolt is open.

Thats a pretty good explanation Archie...thanks..gives a good understanding of your engineering...
I wasnt thinking far enough to forsee the rubber band will roll up the bolt...

I know the sort of country you're talking about...i rarely hunt in that but when i do its a pain to meed your eyes on the ground in front of you when you need them up & around to see movement.

Most of the encounters i have in that type of terrain there is either time to chamber before hand, or there is not enough time to shoulder the gun & shoot anyway...

In areas of tricky dangerous high potential to slip over country i dont risk one in the chamber...

And just a thought...just remember if you did slip & your body fall on the bolt as you mention, aint no rubber band that your thumb can easily push through gonna stop the bolt cocking with your weight on it, so just be careful mate...just because i dont know you, doesnt mean im careless as to you having blown half your jaw or elbow off...

Before each precarious step i take if its that bad, i look to see where i will land in a plan 'B'/hurl the rifle if ness before i completely transfer my weight...& as i said-the stick is empty then anyway.

Regardless...im not suggesting its unsafe to have a round in the chamber anytime...

Its just that freak accident from a brief moment of complacency we all need to avoid...

Ive had one with a circ saw & that was messy & traumatic enough, so i dont ever want one with a gun...

[marksman]

I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?

this is a method the deer stalkers use effectively for very quick shots at close game
another with mauser 98 style actions is to close the bolt and push it down 1 click, the bolt sits in the upward position

in the vic firearms safety test they teach the half open bolt technique where you close the bolt on a round then open the bolt and bring it back at little
when you want to take a shot close the bolt but if the shot is not possible open it again and proceed stalking
this technique is made for rear locking actions because they are cock on close eg... smle, mauser 96, remmington 788 ect
it is not proven to be a safe practice for a cock on open action because if the firing pin was to fall some protrude up to 2mm and could set off a round that would be sitting in the bolt face

IMHO I think the people who have developed the firearms have looked at all safety aspects of there firearm that could make them culpable

unless you are using a Remington rifle of course
www.cnbc.com/remington-under-fire/
which is why I think this all started

[bladeracer]

Its just that freak accident from a brief moment of complacency we all need to avoid...

Ive had one with a circ saw & that was messy & traumatic enough, so i dont ever want one with a gun...

You too!
I run a 9-1/4" Makita through my right wrist in 1990

[Archie]

Stix you’re right mate, falling on the rifle was a bad example - body weight will either close that bolt or not, depending on the way you and it land - rubber band won’t make a difference. If you drop the rifle, it bangs against a tree or you just aren’t paying enough attention, the rubber band gets you a margin of safety. Far from foolproof though. I am a bit paranoid when it comes to NDs and I still hunt very, very slowly in that terrain so I’m normally hyper aware of it but clearly it doesn’t come without risks. I definitely don’t have a round in the chamber until I’m at the “think about where every step goes and how you place your foot” phase of the hunt.

And also, yes I was taught it by a Victorian. Who knew there was something to learn from the Mexicans other than turning right from the left hand lane

[Blr243]

Ok. Sounds like I’m not the only dummy to have an incident with a circular saw. Those teeth don’t exactly leave a nice clean cut I don’t feel like the flesh was cut away from the end of my finger. I felt like the flesh was ripped off me. Quite embarrassing really

[Bent Arrow]

Well here's a doozy Those leather toe guards for trap shooters. You thread it through your laces - it's suppose to protect your boot when you rest the end of the barrel on it Sure, I imagine they all have their actions broken, of course.

I've just started busting clays. From what I've seen so far, I reckon you'd get get pounced on "like a cat on a mouse" if you had the action closed and the muzzle on your foot. Gun is rested on your foot when your waiting for your turn. It's OK to put a shell in the chamber whilst the muzzle is on your foot, but the gun is lifted and the action only closed with the barrel up, already pointing down range

[Stix]

Its just that freak accident from a brief moment of complacency we all need to avoid...

Ive had one with a circ saw & that was messy & traumatic enough, so i dont ever want one with a gun...

You too!
I run a 9-1/4" Makita through my right wrist in 1990

Yup...sigh...
I wont go into mine in detail...wasnt & still isnt pretty...!!
I was unlucky, but lucky at the ssme time--i had swipes of the blade over the underside of wrist...so close to cutting through everything on the important side...

Ok. Sounds like I’m not the only dummy to have an incident with a circular saw. Those teeth don’t exactly leave a nice clean cut I don’t feel like the flesh was cut away from the end of my finger. I felt like the flesh was ripped off me. Quite embarrassing really

Yes BLR...a standard cross-cut saw blade has 2 cutting styles...a clean chip & tear out across timber grain...
Or a rip to fuk effect on flesh & bones...much like i imagine the strength of an angry gorilla with jaws of a great white for hands...& it all seems to happen in the time it takes for a bullet to leave the muzzle...once its kicked back its already too late to stop it...

& no need to be embarrased mate!!...anyone gives you lip just tell em 'you should see what my finger did to the lhe eye of the last guy that said that to me"...