Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need it

Game hunting and large prey. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Boar, pigs etc., large prey, culling, hunting large feral animals.

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Roo farmer » 10 Dec 2018, 4:30 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
When out spotlighting I pretty much operate the same, spot some eyeshine, chamber a round and take the shot if opp resents if no opp, I unchamber the round and push it back in the mag (that's why I love internal mags) and let the person driving know the firearm is now safe. It's just second nature to me now.


Yes, I'm with you on the internal mags. I don't like detachable mags for this exact reason, not being able to put back an un-used round, and not being able to top up the magazine after each shot. It's easy to choose centrefire rifles with internal mags, but I have never seen any rimfires. Or even a rimfire that has a detachable mag that you can put extra rounds into from the top. Do they exist?
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by marksman » 10 Dec 2018, 4:35 pm

bladeracer wrote:I can't fathom any degree of safety awareness in having a hot rifle anywhere other than in your hands.
He had it on his shoulder, putting forward, holding the barrel, while walking in snow, with a buddy, and no target in sight...


this is why in the vic firearm safety test there is a photo shown of a guide who has his double rifle over his shoulder pointing forward to show what not to do
everywhere you look you are pointing the muzzle :crazy:
this is the way to carry a firearm when the African type hunts where they are hunting dangerous game because it is quicker to shoulder the firearm to shoot than off a sling, when you may be eaten by what you are hunting

this guy was not on the job at the time, if he had a safety standard this would not have happened
be muzzle conscious and use your safety
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Urastus » 10 Dec 2018, 5:02 pm

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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Urastus » 10 Dec 2018, 5:38 pm

bladeracer wrote:I can't fathom any degree of safety awareness in having a hot rifle anywhere other than in your hands.
He had it on his shoulder, putting forward, holding the barrel, while walking in snow, with a buddy, and no target in sight...


I have to plead ignorance here. I never liked the idea of an uncocked action rattling about and debris getting into it (I find bits of bush in my pockets and down my back when hiking). I was trying to figure out some sort of easy to use neoprene cover for the action and also hold the bolt quiet. So it sounds like the go is to cock the bolt on an empty chamber then put the mag in? That does sound more secure, although if you're with someone it's nice to see the chamber.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 10 Dec 2018, 5:46 pm

Urastus wrote:
bladeracer wrote:I can't fathom any degree of safety awareness in having a hot rifle anywhere other than in your hands.
He had it on his shoulder, putting forward, holding the barrel, while walking in snow, with a buddy, and no target in sight...


I have to plead ignorance here. I never liked the idea of an uncocked action rattling about and debris getting into it (I find bits of bush in my pockets and down my back when hiking). I was trying to figure out some sort of easy to use neoprene cover for the action and also hold the bolt quiet. So it sounds like the go is to cock the bolt on an empty chamber then put the mag in? That does sound more secure, although if you're with someone it's nice to see the chamber.


Uncocked doesn't mean open, I hate leaving the action open. Bolt handle up so the action is not locked in battery, or uncocked bolt closed on an empty chamber - you can see the bolt is uncocked on a lot of older rifles. If I sling my rifle I generally do so muzzle down, which is fine with the bolt handle up, but I would never sling a rifle with a round chambered and bolt closed. If the rifle is not in your hands there is no reason at all for it to have a round up the spout.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Urastus » 10 Dec 2018, 7:21 pm

bladeracer wrote:Uncocked doesn't mean open, I hate leaving the action open. Bolt handle up so the action is not locked in battery, or uncocked bolt closed on an empty chamber - you can see the bolt is uncocked on a lot of older rifles. If I sling my rifle I generally do so muzzle down, which is fine with the bolt handle up, but I would never sling a rifle with a round chambered and bolt closed. If the rifle is not in your hands there is no reason at all for it to have a round up the spout.


Thanks for that clarification; sounds a bit easier. It gives me an idea; I'll try it first, if it works I'll post some pictures :)
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Dec 2018, 8:10 pm

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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigrich » 10 Dec 2018, 8:28 pm

Urastus wrote:
bladeracer wrote:I can't fathom any degree of safety awareness in having a hot rifle anywhere other than in your hands.
He had it on his shoulder, putting forward, holding the barrel, while walking in snow, with a buddy, and no target in sight...


I have to plead ignorance here. I never liked the idea of an uncocked action rattling about and debris getting into it (I find bits of bush in my pockets and down my back when hiking). I was trying to figure out some sort of easy to use neoprene cover for the action and also hold the bolt quiet. So it sounds like the go is to cock the bolt on an empty chamber then put the mag in? That does sound more secure, although if you're with someone it's nice to see the chamber.


another way is push the top round in the mag down with a finger, and start the bolt closing over the top of the round, so you are closing a bolt on a empty chamber. granted, you have to open the action to chamber a round for a shot, it's slower but safer .this is what i do in my all my bolts, regardless of whether it has a removable mag or not. i don't fully load my mags so i can push that top round down. 3 rounds in any of my centrefires has been enough for me. most game is long gone before i've got that third round chambered. i can chamber quietly with practice JMHO play safe :thumbsup:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Dec 2018, 8:37 pm

bigrich wrote:
Urastus wrote:
bladeracer wrote:I can't fathom any degree of safety awareness in having a hot rifle anywhere other than in your hands.
He had it on his shoulder, putting forward, holding the barrel, while walking in snow, with a buddy, and no target in sight...


I have to plead ignorance here. I never liked the idea of an uncocked action rattling about and debris getting into it (I find bits of bush in my pockets and down my back when hiking). I was trying to figure out some sort of easy to use neoprene cover for the action and also hold the bolt quiet. So it sounds like the go is to cock the bolt on an empty chamber then put the mag in? That does sound more secure, although if you're with someone it's nice to see the chamber.


another way is push the top round in the mag down with a finger, and start the bolt closing over the top of the round, so you are closing a bolt on a empty chamber. granted, you have to open the action to chamber a round for a shot, it's slower but safer .this is what i do in my all my bolts, regardless of whether it has a removable mag or not. i don't fully load my mags so i can push that top round down. 3 rounds in any of my centrefires has been enough for me. most game is long gone before i've got that third round chambered. i can chamber quietly with practice JMHO play safe :thumbsup:


That's what I do BR, simple really hey. :drinks:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigrich » 10 Dec 2018, 8:51 pm

works for me BFS it would be a horrible thing to live with if you shot your mate. :( on a sidenote, i was watching "bondi rescue" (can't beleive how ignorant some foreigners are to the surf ), and a fella turned up at "the tower" with abdominal pain. he had numerous operations after being accidently shot in the stomach,while out shooting with a mate, with shrapnel still in there apparently. it was a 22mag he was shot with he said. the gun was loaded and went off as his mate was getting out of the ute . that's as best as i can remember anyway. kinda made me think :shock:

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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Dec 2018, 9:06 pm

bigrich wrote:works for me BFS it would be a horrible thing to live with if you shot your mate. :( on a sidenote, i was watching "bondi rescue" (can't beleive how ignorant some foreigners are to the surf ), and a fella turned up at "the tower" with abdominal pain. he had numerous operations after being accidently shot in the stomach,while out shooting with a mate, with shrapnel still in there apparently. it was a 22mag he was shot with he said. the gun was loaded and went off as his mate was getting out of the ute . that's as best as i can remember anyway. kinda made me think :shock:

:thumbsup:


Yeah not much commonsense around these days, I think it's a lack of being shown by parents, the ol days they used to show you how to do all manner of things now days people come to forums and facebook etc to learn how to do things (not saying its all bad or wrong) just something I've noticed over the years.

It amazes me how many people are happy to drive around with a loaded firearm, there are so many stories of people being shot or close calls etc, people need to switch on a bit more and that goes for the passengers, they should be asking whether the bloody thing is safe or not, I always tell the fellas I'm shooting with whether the firearm is hot or not, it's just good manners and a safer way to operate, I also ask whether theirs in hot or not too, rather get home safe than via a hospital or morgue.

As for foreigners and their lack of knowledge of surf, I don't think a lot of em have much in the way of access to the types of coastlines like we do so not surprised at their lack of knowledge about how dangerous it can be. :drinks:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigrich » 10 Dec 2018, 9:58 pm

As for foreigners and their lack of knowledge of surf, I don't think a lot of em have much in the way of access to the types of coastlines like we do so not surprised at their lack of knowledge about how dangerous it can be. :drinks:[/quote]

yeh :roll: i know. i think it probably comes back to all the sheeple living in their phones instead of the real world. no practicle usable common sense :crazy: :thumbsup:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Member-Deleted » 10 Dec 2018, 10:59 pm

Very sad and wouldn't like to be in his shoes
I never use my safety on my rifles because I treat them as if they don't have one when readying for a shot I put the bullet in and leave the bolt open
until I sight up if the shot doesn't eventuate then I remove the bullet I have never in my life relied on a safety on a rifle
I had an old Remington once and I had loaded it to take a shot at a pig the pig moved and I never took the shot BUT!! half way through removing
the bolt the rifle went off lucky I always point it at the ground whilst removing bullets and this was one case where it could have ended like old mates
and lost a mate we looked and found the catch on the pin to trigger was worn the previous owner would have known this as I had only owned the rifle for 3mths and hadn't used it very often I tried it several times that day and it did the same after every 3-4 shots but I was doing it on dry runs no bullet
Took the rifle home and with the fright I received from it's discharge I put the oxy through it and scrapped it those day's we weren't licenced so didn't have to hand the bits in
Always safety first ! :thumbsup:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 10 Dec 2018, 11:40 pm

Same here
I dont use safety on rifles at all...only use on the shotty with my thumb straddling the switch while off on a stroll.
I mostly hunt or spotlight by myself & im always checking my chamber even though ive not touched it since i last checked it...thats the annoying ocd when alone...

I wouldnt even know if the safety works on a couple rifles i have...but ill check em on the weekend... :lol:

And im same as Blade...i cannot for the life of me walk around with a rifle slung over my shoulder that has one up the spout...just cant do it--my worrysone mind is too paranoid it'll go off n give me a throbbing headache...

Im also paranoid to be in the cabin of a ute if shooter on the back & refuse to be in the cabin if i dont know its an experienced anal retentive muzzle aware safety nut behind the rifle personally...lucky i spotlight by myself most of the time...

I just dont get how complacent those guys are...or were...
Gives me the heebee geebies...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Dec 2018, 11:45 pm

OCD isn't a bad thing to have when it comes to firearms safety, I'm the same and keep checking with others when we are out spotlighting or hunting - better safe than sorry. :thumbsup:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by TassieTiger » 11 Dec 2018, 4:19 am

My parents have told me how a gun fell over in my room when I was 3 putting a hole in the adjacent wall - I cringe at the what if’s, but they retort - that’s the way it used to be..,guns in wardrobes with one up the spout....shudder...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 11 Dec 2018, 5:03 am

TassieTiger wrote:My parents have told me how a gun fell over in my room when I was 3 putting a hole in the adjacent wall - I cringe at the what if’s, but they retort - that’s the way it used to be..,guns in wardrobes with one up the spout....shudder...


It's still that way in America - The land of Freedom my arse, the land of halfwits more like it! :unknown:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 11 Dec 2018, 6:58 am

bigfellascott wrote:OCD isn't a bad thing to have when it comes to firearms safety, I'm the same and keep checking with others when we are out spotlighting or hunting - better safe than sorry. :thumbsup:


Yea bang on bigfella...im with you there--good way to be... :thumbsup:

Although few months ago it got the better of me...after a 45 min chase through (from memory) 4 paddocks, id chambered & removed a round atleast 3 times...
Finally i out clevered him & got a simple broadside shot on him at 100ish yds...
Lifted & closed to cock the bolt on the round (i thought) i had in the chamber thinking i finally gotcha...

"CLICK"

:wtf:
He saundered over the hill while i fumbled the bolt frantically tryin to slam a round down the spout.
:roll:

I was so dam angry at myself at the time :evil:..but i remain accidental discharge free because of that ocd. Touch wood the opposite doesnt happen...

I can laugh now, but boy i was a filthy sort of bitchin narky that night...! :lol:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 11 Dec 2018, 7:09 am

bigfellascott wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:My parents have told me how a gun fell over in my room when I was 3 putting a hole in the adjacent wall - I cringe at the what if’s, but they retort - that’s the way it used to be..,guns in wardrobes with one up the spout....shudder...


It's still that way in America - The land of Freedom my arse, the land of halfwits more like it! :unknown:


I heard a story from a friend iof the family who had a mate in the army who was behind the counter at the Keswick barraks during the big 90's "Howard hand-in"...
Apparently there were a few shots per day that rang out in the line-up, from reponsible gun owners who stored their firearms safely... :crazy:

Not sure how true it is--id guess, or like to think its atleast an exaggeration of the truth...but ive no doubt there were a few clowns around the country in that line up who had a round chambered. :thumbsdown:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by TassieTiger » 11 Dec 2018, 8:03 am

Everyone on here has been through the gun handlers course and if like me, you’d think - that course was as safe as it could get...
But a couple months back, a student got shot at a local course (Brighton Tas) by a .22 LR in the foot/leg...details are sketchy on how it happened but it was reported on local media...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 11 Dec 2018, 8:55 am

TassieTiger wrote:Everyone on here has been through the gun handlers course and if like me, you’d think - that course was as safe as it could get...


Tassie...my little grasshopper... :lol: :sarcasm:

Im hazzarding an educated giess that there are a lot...& i mean A LOT of members here that have never done the gun handlers course...

I grew up shooting & chasing bunnies & getting my gun license was so important to me...!!

I couldnt get out of bed for anything but going shootin...& on my 16th b'day i got my backside outa bed & caught the bus down to the local cop shop, answered maybe a dozen (?) very basic multiple choice questions & walked out with my firearms licence. :thumbsup: .

Never did a course ever...
But i could safely operate all the old mans firearms safely & i was bought up with muzzle awareness almost literally being punched into my head...so much so that to this day its all i instinctively think about if i see a gun.

There are many more here, that like me we just filled out a form to get our license

Not having done a "handlers course" doesnt mean i didnt have a teacher tho...

I still remember ine day as a young fella i jumped a fence with the .410 in my hand...i can still feel the ol'mans voice shattering my entire being...!!

It may have been safe, but i dont recall having ever done it since.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Archie » 11 Dec 2018, 9:09 am

I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Rod_outbak » 11 Dec 2018, 9:14 am

When the CQ police were doing one of their Glock conversions at the range at Emerald(QLD), one of the trainees nearly shot the instructor and senior officer.
AD while putting the Glock back into the plastic container it came in; no-one had properly checked that the weapon was clear...
[The container had some sort of post that goes through the trigger guard when the handgun is placed back into it?? Never seen one up close myself..]

Thankfully, the round ploughed into the dirt beside them, and a brown-trousers moment was enjoyed by all....

Serious failing on behalf of the officer who was operating the Glock, the range officer, etc etc etc.

Never heard if anyone was prosecuted for THAT crime...

For me, carrying a loaded weapon is all about risk assessment. If I'm walking on my own, and there's no-one around for miles, I tend to carry the rifle loaded and safed. I never point it towards myself, or in the direction of any buildings etc. I unload it when I stop and or am putting the rifle down.
If there's anyone with me, or if there's more activity in the immediate area, I carry the rifle with the chamber empty, but with a full mag locked in, and regularly check the chamber to be sure.

If I'm out on the motorbike, I tend to carry the 1911 with an empty chamber, unless I've sighted something to shoot. Then, I'll chamber a round, safe it, and back in the holster. The holster (Galco Duty holster??) points the muzzle down behind the side of the bike, so low chance of an AD doing much more than maybe burning my arse, and scaring the crap out of me. My 1911 is Single-action-only, and I dont trust lowering the hammer on a live chamber.
Again; I dont carry the handgun cocked & locked if there is anyone else around.

I also have to tell you, that when I'm (alone) investigating tall bullrushes along the creek, and I can hear oinky noises in the near distance, I suck my testicles up tight, have EVERYTHING loaded, locked and safe, say a tiny little prayer to the Phukup Fairy to 'Sod OFF!' for an hour or two, and gingerly make my way along the trail on the edge of the creek; about as twitchy as a cat who's snorted speed with his third triple-shot espresso for breakfast.
[or like TassieTiger when he's seen a Daddy Long-Legs...]

But that's just me...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by pomemax » 11 Dec 2018, 9:20 am

Knew a bloke who used to carry a round up the spout till he forgot one day put the firearm in the back of the ute when changing paddocks shot himself in the back near his butt .22
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by TassieTiger » 11 Dec 2018, 10:39 am

Stix wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Everyone on here has been through the gun handlers course and if like me, you’d think - that course was as safe as it could get...


Tassie...my little grasshopper... :lol: :sarcasm:

Im hazzarding an educated giess that there are a lot...& i mean A LOT of members here that have never done the gun handlers course...

I grew up shooting & chasing bunnies & getting my gun license was so important to me...!!

I couldnt get out of bed for anything but going shootin...& on my 16th b'day i got my backside outa bed & caught the bus down to the local cop shop, answered maybe a dozen (?) very basic multiple choice questions & walked out with my firearms licence. :thumbsup: .

Never did a course ever...
But i could safely operate all the old mans firearms safely & i was bought up with muzzle awareness almost literally being punched into my head...so much so that to this day its all i instinctively think about if i see a gun.

There are many more here, that like me we just filled out a form to get our license

Not having done a "handlers course" doesnt mean i didnt have a teacher tho...

I still remember ine day as a young fella i jumped a fence with the .410 in my hand...i can still feel the ol'mans voice shattering my entire being...!!

It may have been safe, but i dont recall having ever done it since.
:drinks:


Thank you Kimosavi(or how ever you spell that :D ) - I tootally forgot that you could apply early on for a licence without having to do said course...But now having done that course - its pretty insane and over the top.
Your .22 is locked down to a block with chain, restricting movement completely and you are handed 1 x .22 cartridge at a time until you have fired 10 rounds. The thing is - the blocks and chain are so tight that you couldnt fukn miss if you wanted to lol.

Side note
lol.
I will never forget living in Browns plains (QLD) a few lives ago and a party some distance away was getting out of hand and I could hear bullets being fired off and yahooing. All good fun until I hear the tinker on the roof and decided to call the cops and tell them that ppl were shooting wildly. THIRTY MINUTES Later - they called back to ask if the shooting had ceased...unbeknlviable.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Urastus » 11 Dec 2018, 10:55 am

Archie wrote:I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?


I was having a similar thought with the rubber band. You can also make a loop through the band with a nylone tie, so it's easy to grab. I have parking brakes on my MTB's like that.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Urastus » 11 Dec 2018, 11:00 am

Well here's a doozy :) Those leather toe guards for trap shooters. You thread it through your laces - it's suppose to protect your boot when you rest the end of the barrel on it :D Sure, I imagine they all have their actions broken, of course.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Urastus » 11 Dec 2018, 11:10 am

Stix wrote:
I still remember ine day as a young fella i jumped a fence with the .410 in my hand...i can still feel the ol'mans voice shattering my entire being...!!

It may have been safe, but i dont recall having ever done it since.
:drinks:


It used to be a pretty common accident area - climbing through fences with firearms. As a kid I remember a local bloke who shot himself getting through a fence. Leaning the rifle against the fence probably.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 11 Dec 2018, 11:38 am

Archie wrote:I carry a round in the chamber with the bolt home but handle up, and the bold handle held up by a doubled, thick rubber band that in turn is looped round the scope.

Thoughts?


Only one place for rubbers...& i just deleted what i wrote here...but it did include such words as drunk...& ugly... :lol: :lol: :lol:


So is the rubber band because you dont trust yourself, or your awareness to not know if you've closed the bolt...?
If thats the case & you're that worried why have a round in there..?

Not having a go at all Archie...just trying to understand the need for a rubber band holding up the bolt... :unknown:

I would hate anything obstructing the action on my rifles...absolutely hate it...i want controll...

Is there any chance when you fire a round the recoil & rubber band lifts the bolt causing it to fly back & wedge in your eye socket...? :unknown:

If i approach say an area of land where i may need to get a shot off real quick, i pre chamber a round & have the bolt up in that "notch" if you know what i mean with thumb over the bolt & finger over trigger guard ready to go...

My experience tells me it is only fatigue &/or laziness that prevents me to carry a rifle for extended periods of time in the manner i mention above--as holding the rifle in such a way is not what id call "relaxing" for the right hand...& if thats the case-fatigue or laziness kicks in, there comes a much higher risk of an accident...
In which case, i empty the chamber...just not worth the risk...its just not...

This happened to me earlier this year...came face to face with mr fox on the outskirts of farm infrastructure after a long 2 hour morning walk with the 204...i was pretty fatigued so i emptied the chamber....so instead of mr fox gettig a smack to the heart from a round i already had in the chamber, he got chased away by hastily chambered & wasted rounds...but i rather that than fatigue or cramp in the trigger hand with a live one ready to go... :thumbsup:

Each to his own Archie...if that works for you & is always safe, then its a good thing...but like i said id hate something around my bolt... :drinks:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
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South Australia

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