Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need it

Game and varmint hunting. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Culling, hunting feral animals and vertebrate pest control.

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by TassieTiger » 13 Dec 2018, 9:47 pm

Not being fully aware of all mechanical aspects of a trigger/bolt mechanism, would be great if a picture could accompany some of the above - especially when referring to certain makes eg Mauser positive feed systems and similar.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Dec 2018, 10:09 pm

Heres the Howa Hact Trigger - scroll down you will see pics of it :D

https://www.pulverdampf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23009
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 13 Dec 2018, 10:15 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Heres the Howa Hact Trigger - scroll down you will see pics of it :D

https://www.pulverdampf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23009


Need Bigrich to translate this for us...
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Dec 2018, 10:18 pm

Stix wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Heres the Howa Hact Trigger - scroll down you will see pics of it :D

https://www.pulverdampf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23009


Need Bigrich to translate this for us...


I'd say he's just explaining how to pull the trigger apart and tune it going by what I can see. :unknown:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by TassieTiger » 13 Dec 2018, 11:22 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Heres the Howa Hact Trigger - scroll down you will see pics of it :D

https://www.pulverdampf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23009


Geeeeeezus....I think I need a Weiner schnitzel to get me in the mood to try and work out wtf...not one word looked like “sear” sonim still confused lol
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 14 Dec 2018, 12:14 am

TassieTiger wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Heres the Howa Hact Trigger - scroll down you will see pics of it :D

https://www.pulverdampf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23009


Geeeeeezus....I think I need a Weiner schnitzel to get me in the mood to try and work out wtf...not one word looked like “sear” sonim still confused lol



Well Tassie...if you were closer i could help you out with that Weiner schnizel...

I was inconvenienced by a mate this evening & I havnt had dinner because i had to go & rescue some write-off veal...a good few kilo's of it... cos he doesnt have room in his fridge
. :D

Need some good veal recipe's now....
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by grandadbushy » 14 Dec 2018, 1:27 am

Hey Stix , what sort of crivac machine do you use mate they look nice bags thick and neat
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2018, 7:33 am

TassieTiger wrote:Not being fully aware of all mechanical aspects of a trigger/bolt mechanism, would be great if a picture could accompany some of the above - especially when referring to certain makes eg Mauser positive feed systems and similar.



cocked bolt
Image

uncocked bolt
Image

this bolt has the firing pin set at the recommended 2mm
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 14 Dec 2018, 8:12 am

Whats the bolt out of?
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 14 Dec 2018, 8:14 am

You know what we need, we need the Myth Busters to do an experiment to see just how true or false this whole thing is. :D
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 14 Dec 2018, 8:56 am

This is the Howa bolt

Image

Image

I also decocked the bolt and the firing pin protrudes about 2mm or so but I can't see how it will set off a primer because it is resting against it, it really would need force ie being cocked and under spring-loaded tension to set it off as far as I can figure out.

As I've said I've carried my rifles plenty of times with one up the spout and decocked and never an issue and I just can't figure out how it would set it off without some sort of force (spring loaded tension on the pin) to make the primer detonate, I pushed on the back of the firing pin with a screwdriver and there is no movement whatsoever so it can't strike the primer as such, not sure about other firearm setups but I think this one is ok certainly has been all these years :unknown:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 14 Dec 2018, 9:10 am

grandadbushy wrote:Hey Stix , what sort of crivac machine do you use mate they look nice bags thick and neat


I didnt pack that Grandad ...thats how it came, packed at slaughter house i guess.
Yes the bags look & feel good-id like ine of those machines... :thumbsup:

I have the waeco vaccuum machine...it was pricy but was the only one at the time i could find worked on 12v as well....
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by TassieTiger » 14 Dec 2018, 9:51 am

marksman wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Not being fully aware of all mechanical aspects of a trigger/bolt mechanism, would be great if a picture could accompany some of the above - especially when referring to certain makes eg Mauser positive feed systems and similar.



cocked bolt
Image

uncocked bolt
Image

this bolt has the firing pin set at the recommended 2mm


Thank you for taking the time.
I need to research more about trigger / bolt systems. I knew the firing pin exited the bolt, - didn’t know the term applied to cocked / uncocked when pin was proud.
Cheers.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 14 Dec 2018, 1:34 pm

bigfellascott wrote:This is the Howa bolt
I also decocked the bolt and the firing pin protrudes about 2mm or so but I can't see how it will set off a primer because it is resting against it, it really would need force ie being cocked and under spring-loaded tension to set it off as far as I can figure out.

As I've said I've carried my rifles plenty of times with one up the spout and decocked and never an issue and I just can't figure out how it would set it off without some sort of force (spring loaded tension on the pin) to make the primer detonate, I pushed on the back of the firing pin with a screwdriver and there is no movement whatsoever so it can't strike the primer as such, not sure about other firearm setups but I think this one is ok certainly has been all these years :unknown:


I've never diassembled a Howa bolt to see how they work.

If you have the striker pressed against the primer under spring tension, and you bang the butt hard enough, you can bounce the striker against the spring, which can fire the primer. If the cocking piece is exposed, as on most milsurps, a knock to the cocking piece will also fire the primer.
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2018, 1:34 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Whats the bolt out of?


that is a mauser 98 bolt but it is common for all makes to have a 2mm firing pin protrusion

the way it has been related to me as to why you would not have an uncocked bolt on a live chambered round is that the firearm may discharge if it is dropped or bumped hard, maybe mythbusters would be the best people to figure this out :lol:

but what we were talking about was if you have a cock on open firearm and chamber a round with a partially closed bolt or the bolt open you have a loaded firearm that if the cocking mechanism indent was worn and the slipped it may discharge the firearm :unknown:

I am not saying that this will definitely happen but I cannot say it would never happen so I cant confirm that this is a safe practice :unknown:
I am saying though that it would be wiser to take note of the manufacturers instructions on safe firearm use and that I have never seen a manufacturers booklet that says dont use a safety, ever :wtf: I do not believe you should trust the safety on a firearm so never point a firearm but use it as instructed

the feckwit in this story had the loaded firearm on top of his shoulder holding it by the barrel when he slipped in mud as they walked to his fresh kill hoping to see another one and the firearm discharged shooting his best mate he says he used the safety and it come off on its own, if he had not been such a hero and held the firearm in a way he could control where the muzzle was pointing he still may have had an accidental discharge but his mate would still be breathing because the muzzle was pointing in a safe direction, hero's always recon they are the safest shooters :crazy:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 14 Dec 2018, 1:35 pm

bigfellascott wrote:...but I think this one is ok certainly has been all these years :unknown:


This bloke that killed his mate thought he was safe for forty years himself...until he suddenly discovered he wasn't...
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by marksman » 14 Dec 2018, 1:42 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:...but I think this one is ok certainly has been all these years :unknown:


This bloke that killed his mate thought he was safe for forty years himself...until he suddenly discovered he wasn't...


you are right blade, we can get complacent as we get experience, its not hard to be safe :drinks:
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Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 14 Dec 2018, 1:43 pm

marksman wrote:the feckwit in this story had the loaded firearm on top of his shoulder holding it by the barrel when he slipped in mud as they walked to his fresh kill hoping to see another one and the firearm discharged shooting his best mate he says he used the safety and it come off on its own, if he had not been such a hero and held the firearm in a way he could control where the muzzle was pointing he still may have had an accidental discharge but his mate would still be breathing because the muzzle was pointing in a safe direction, hero's always recon they are the safest shooters :crazy:


To clarify, he carried the rifle that way initially, which almost certainly negated the safety by allowing it to be disengaged against his pack, or anything else while it was out of his control - even tree branches or brush could disengage it very easily. And just as easily, another branch could pull the trigger, while he is waving the muzzle around.

He then took the rifle from his shoulder into his left hand, without checking the safety, or keeping it pointed in a safe direction, when he slipped in the slush, and the rifle fired. Falling or dropping a cocked rifle allows many uncontrolled interactions with the trigger that could fire it, branches, clothing, fingers, etc can all inadvertantly find their way into the trigger guard during a fall.
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