Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Ziad » 26 Dec 2018, 11:21 am

In vic 5 acres is the minimum to not get in trouble even if rural. Need property owner details. Ideally get neighbors permission. Be careful which direction you shooting at. Preferably use quieter ammo. And obviously read what others have said in this thread.
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by duncan61 » 26 Dec 2018, 11:31 am

I did the plumbing on a rural house that had other properties near .It was on a river and all the old dead cars were pilled up along the bank.The house was up on a sand pad as the area floods in winter so I set up a bonnet at 50 metres and zeroed with .22LR Winchester Z ammo.As I was working around the house I would look over and every now and then a bunny would be out as the area was in shade.I got 2 or 3 every time I went there the closest was 32 metres and the furthest which I used a small amount of holdover on was 72 metres.The Z ammo killed them outright and was silent HMR are loud as for what they do.Get permission and get sneaky.I gave one rabbit to the Italian mother so they were happy.The only thing I did wrong was bury the offal in my water service trench and a fox dug it up that night and spread it around the back so the son thought I had just dropped it on the floor and it stunk
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Die Judicii » 26 Dec 2018, 12:45 pm

Yet another good example for the need to bring back the good old silencers.
They are almost mandatory in England where a lot of shooting is done in close proximity to houses. :thumbsup:
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by ponkychonk » 26 Dec 2018, 2:58 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:In WA the police have a table of minimum property sizes for each calibre when submitting a property letter when applying for a licence. For the 17 hmr 100 acres is the recommended size with 50 acres being the bare minimum. .


Where did you get this info from?
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Bruiser64 » 26 Dec 2018, 7:01 pm

ponkychonk wrote:
Bruiser64 wrote:In WA the police have a table of minimum property sizes for each calibre when submitting a property letter when applying for a licence. For the 17 hmr 100 acres is the recommended size with 50 acres being the bare minimum. .


Where did you get this info from?


I got it from a table I downloaded from one of the WA gun store websites. I have it at home. Send me a PM if you want me to send you a copy. I am away from home until next week though.
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Sawyers » 26 Dec 2018, 11:50 pm

Bruiser64 wrote:20 acres is a small property. This article from Sporting Shooter May be of some use. http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/gun-l ... hooting-on . In WA the police have a table of minimum property sizes for each calibre when submitting a property letter when applying for a licence. For the 17 hmr 100 acres is the recommended size with 50 acres being the bare minimum. The main issues with a property of that size would be containing the shot on the property and not getting complaints from the neighbours. If the property is undulating and/or heavily wooded, it may be perfectly safe to shoot a hmr. A quick call to the local police station may be prudent before proceeding.

In theory a 17 hmr is safer to shoot on a small property compared to a 22lr as it cut downs on the chance of bullets ricocheting, with a suppressor it would be perfect small property hunting rifle
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Sawyers » 26 Dec 2018, 11:59 pm

Die Judicii wrote:I've read all of the above, and see no mention of the "real" suitability in your case of using the .17 HMR

I am of the understanding that this particular round was first developed at the request of the american military.
Because a lot of fresh intakes had no or little experience with firearms, they needed to address this and the ensuing safety issues.

Some of their primary requisites were as follow,

1) A small lightweight round.
2) A round that was highly frangible that would disintergrate upon impact of minimal objects such as branches etc.
3) Accurate

So really the .17 HMR is probably even more suitable on smaller holdings than the common .22 lr or .22 short.
Especially so if there is shrubbery, light tree coverage etc.

It still pays to take notice of what has been said by other members as regard to backdrop, markers, etc etc.
Common sense goes a long way.

My thoughts exactly, I shoot several small properties (10 acre being the smallest) and Im looking at purchasing a 17 Mach2 as ive had 1 or 2 shots from a 22lr exit a rabbits head hit the ground and ricochete.
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by TassieTiger » 27 Dec 2018, 2:34 am

Forgive my ignorance here - the .17hmr is apparently pushing somewhere around 2500fps vs a .22lr of around 1200fps standard or 1050fps for subs - how is the HMR less likely to ricochet than the slower and heavier .22 round?
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by duncan61 » 27 Dec 2018, 2:54 am

Winchester Z at 770fps is not going any where.The bunny I shot at 72 metres in the head the bullet did not even exit.I find rabbits drop dead very easy.I have shot at long range with a shotgun and found them dead without a mark on them.Even silenced the HMR will make noise as the bullet is doing Mach 2 when it leaves the barrel
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 27 Dec 2018, 3:54 am

TassieTiger wrote:Forgive my ignorance here - the .17hmr is apparently pushing somewhere around 2500fps vs a .22lr of around 1200fps standard or 1050fps for subs - how is the HMR less likely to ricochet than the slower and heavier .22 round?


The very light bullet travelling at very high speed tends to evaporate upon hitting anything at all, similar to .204. In particular, the bullet tends not to exit the animal, or at least not in one piece so pass-through is rarely a danger to anybody. A ,22LR bullet tends to go through animals up to about fox size, although the bullet doesn't have a lot of energy left when it comes out. If it's also deformed, or tumbling (the whizzing sound you hear from a ricochet indicates a deformed or tumbling bullet) then it bleeds velocity very quickly.

But that's only at close range while the velocity is still high. These very light bullets bleed velocity very quickly and are soon down below that threshold and become no more immune to ricochet than anything else.
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by bladeracer » 27 Dec 2018, 3:57 am

duncan61 wrote:Even silenced the HMR will make noise as the bullet is doing Mach 2 when it leaves the barrel


Yes, a supersonic bullet will still break the sound barrier as it leaves the muzzle, but the gases that follow the bullet out are slowed and cooled in the can before being released to atmosphere.
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by duncan61 » 27 Dec 2018, 8:11 am

great explanation.I found with the neck shot ducks I used to do with HMR the jacket and lead fragments were often still in the duck.I fillet the breast out anyhoo.Never plucked a duck out in my life.
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Sawyers » 27 Dec 2018, 10:19 am

duncan61 wrote:Winchester Z at 770fps is not going any where.The bunny I shot at 72 metres in the head the bullet did not even exit.I find rabbits drop dead very easy.I have shot at long range with a shotgun and found them dead without a mark on them.Even silenced the HMR will make noise as the bullet is doing Mach 2 when it leaves the barrel

In my experience with Z or quits (i shoot them alot) I find they a prone to ricochet more so than any other 22lr ammo and a inconsistent in there groupings. Noise whis there perfect for plinking on small blocks with a decnt sized back drop
Last edited by Sawyers on 27 Dec 2018, 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Stix » 27 Dec 2018, 11:31 am

marksman wrote:
Die Judicii wrote:I've read all of the above, and see no mention of the "real" suitability in your case of using the .17 HMR

I am of the understanding that this particular round was first developed at the request of the american military.
Because a lot of fresh intakes had no or little experience with firearms, they needed to address this and the ensuing safety issues.

Some of their primary requisites were as follow,

1) A small lightweight round.
2) A round that was highly frangible that would disintergrate upon impact of minimal objects such as branches etc.
3) Accurate

So really the .17 HMR is probably even more suitable on smaller holdings than the common .22 lr or .22 short.
Especially so if there is shrubbery, light tree coverage etc.

It still pays to take notice of what has been said by other members as regard to backdrop, markers, etc etc.
Common sense goes a long way.


well said Die Judici
they are very frangible and on 20 acres if they were used with common sence would be safer to use than a 22 rimfire that is not
a safer option would be a pair of ferrets and maybe a 12 gauge used sensibly but there is no limit to the size of land you can shoot on in vic as long as it is not a populous place and you are 200 meters from the nearest house ect
it would be best to get the property owner to have a talk with the neighbours so they know what is going on


I dont think the american military are sending out inexperienced shooters to bowl these bunnies over... :lol:

While i agree with the points of frangibility of the projectile in the HMR,(that point and ferrets ( :thumbsup: ) were the first 2 things that came to my mind given i grew up stuffing ferrets down warrens to shotgun bunnies, & i prefer to use 22-250 than 222/223 for spotlighting due to lessened risk of ricochet's & i tell farmers this) there is other factors to take into account.
Like for example...on a small block, after one shot from a HMR, you can pack up & come back a few hours later for your second shot as this will scare most others off... ;)

Also as for safe, use sub hp's...thats all ive used my entire life & i cannot tell you how many bunnies ive head shot within 40 yds (& i mean within, including them being so close i struggle for elevation poking the rifle out the window!!) around farm infrastructure, INCLUDING up against sheds, & NOT had any damage to the iron immediately behind the bunnies head...i can only think of one occasion where ive heard the "tink" on the iron & yet not been able to see any damage.
Also, if not keeping meat as i do, a shot to the shoulder of a bunny with a sub hp .22 is highly unlikely to exit even at the closest of ranges--you will hear a pop & see said bunny fall over with some muscle tension in its legs then go floppy....& a bunnies head &/or chest is a pretty big target at 70 yds... :)

So, with noise & accuracy taken into account, along with the shooter using sensibility in regard to his/her ability & safe backdrop, i would say the over-all "real" suitability for vermin destruction in close quarters (anywhere out to say 100yds depending on shooters ability) would be a .22lr shooting sub hp's...of course, in my opinion


As for later comments on bringing back silencers...yes i agree. :thumbsup: ..that is where my use of sub's derrived from using one of them...

But i need to ask...what use iis a silencer on a 17HMR...??
For 'silencing" to be effective, the bullet must be traveling at or below the speed of sound so as to force the gasses & sound wave into the baffles to slow & muffle it & prevent them from escaping to the atmosphere before the bullet ...also, a silencer has no ability (to the best of my knowledge) to remove the sonic boom through the atmosphere created from an object travelling faster than the speed of sound, so a silencer on a 17hmr will scare just as many bunnies off as not using one... :crazy:

While im here...whats with assuming everyone else other than you & Bills Shed are stupid for apparently 'not' picking up on thew fact its a rimfire when Tassie mentioned loading it down...?
I didnt hear you pipe up... :unknown:
And i thought Blade made it pretty clear anyway...his explanation of pulling apart rimfire rounds was self explanatory i thought. :thumbsup:

I dont understand why you wouldnt just mention to Tassie its a rimfire round & downloading is not a viable option, rather than wait & insinuate everyone else is stupid... :unknown: ...but then youve made it very clear you think others here, such as myself are fukwits, so i guess that answers my question.

Believe it or not, im not trying to create waves & add to my unpopularity...just saying... :unknown:
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by No1_49er » 27 Dec 2018, 12:20 pm

Stix wrote:But i need to ask...what use is a silencer on a 17HMR...??
For 'silencing" to be effective, the bullet must be traveling at or below the speed of sound so as to force the gasses & sound wave into the baffles to slow & muffle it & prevent them from escaping to the atmosphere before the bullet ...also, a silencer has no ability (to the best of my knowledge) to remove the sonic boom through the atmosphere created from an object traveling faster than the speed of sound, so a silencer on a 17hmr will scare just as many bunnies off as not using one... :crazy:

I dont understand why you wouldnt just mention to Tassie its a rimfire round & downloading is not a viable option, rather than wait & insinuate everyone else is stupid... :unknown: ...but then youve made it very clear you think others here, such as myself are fukwits, so i guess that answers my question.

Believe it or not, im not trying to create waves & add to my unpopularity...just saying... :unknown:
:D :drinks:

Right o' Stix, before you get too carried away, and unless or until you have used a sound moderator of any sort, do not ever try and convince anybody that said moderator has no effect on a firearm discharging a supersonic projectile.

I have, on many occasions, been fortunate enough to shoot competitively in a jurisdiction that permits the use of moderators; in fact, you would probably be classed as a social pariah if you didn't use one. It is a revelation, and a pleasure, to shoot alongside so many other folk on the firing line when they are using moderators on their 222, 223 6mmPPC, 308, 6BR etc, etc.

When you too have had that experience, tell us again that a moderator makes no difference to the sound emanating from a supersonic projectile.
But please note that I have not said that there is no sound; simply that it is moderated. If you want a silencer, go to the movies.
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by bigrich » 27 Dec 2018, 1:07 pm

in a old episode of "get smart" , they had a super silencer, called a "big shush " for their handguns that was about the size of a toilet roll :lol: .. mind you, they were using a silencer on revolvers ....... :wtf: :lol: :lol: :crazy:
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Jakotay22 » 27 Dec 2018, 2:19 pm

Thanks for all the responses. I do not own a 22 at the moment but maybe it is something worth looking into. I will contact a couple neighbours to check but I'm pretty sure they occasionally shoot so that shouldn't be a problem. I am not exactly sure of the layout of the property yet so there is more for me to think about!
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Re: Land size for 17hmr varminting in Victoria

Post by Stix » 27 Dec 2018, 3:22 pm

No1_49er wrote:
Stix wrote:But i need to ask...what use is a silencer on a 17HMR...??
For 'silencing" to be effective, the bullet must be traveling at or below the speed of sound so as to force the gasses & sound wave into the baffles to slow & muffle it & prevent them from escaping to the atmosphere before the bullet ...also, a silencer has no ability (to the best of my knowledge) to remove the sonic boom through the atmosphere created from an object traveling faster than the speed of sound, so a silencer on a 17hmr will scare just as many bunnies off as not using one... :crazy:

I dont understand why you wouldnt just mention to Tassie its a rimfire round & downloading is not a viable option, rather than wait & insinuate everyone else is stupid... :unknown: ...but then youve made it very clear you think others here, such as myself are fukwits, so i guess that answers my question.

Believe it or not, im not trying to create waves & add to my unpopularity...just saying... :unknown:
:D :drinks:

Right o' Stix before you get too carried away, and unless or until you have used a sound moderator of any sort, do not ever try and convince anybody that said moderator has no effect on a firearm discharging a supersonic projectile.

I have, on many occasions, been fortunate enough to shoot competitively in a jurisdiction that permits the use of moderators; in fact, you would probably be classed as a social pariah if you didn't use one. It is a revelation, and a pleasure, to shoot alongside so many other folk on the firing line when they are using moderators on their 222, 223 6mmPPC, 308, 6BR etc, etc.

When you too have had that experience, tell us again that a moderator makes no difference to the sound emanating from a supersonic projectile.
But please note that I have not said that there is no sound; simply that it is moderated. If you want a silencer, go to the movies.


:lol:
I dont think im getting carried away... :unknown:
Im just speaking from my limited experience with having used a silencer on a .22 rimfire while shooting bunnies.

No, im not afraid to admit i havnt had the opportunity to shoot moderated centrefire rifles at a regulated shooting range in a jurisdiction that allows such...but im not sure of the relevance of that to the OP's situation..or relative to what im clearly referring to. :unknown:
And so lets not get carried away with any insinuations or claim that i said &/or meant there is no difference in the noise emitted from a sound moderated centrefire rifle when fired, as experienced from standing next to someone shooting a comp at the range.

Rather, what im referring to, is staying near enough to within the scope of the OP's situation....that being ridding a small property of what appears to be (by his post) a high density population of rabbits with a rimfire rifle in an area that potentially has other people living within relative close proximity...!!!

Now unlike your experience with sound moderated centrefire rifles at the range, my experience is one that has been in the very situation the OP has mentioned, & has taught me, that when ive fired high velocity .22lr rounds through a rifle with a silencer on it, the silencer does not completely stop the sonic boom of the bullet, it makes a plenty loud enough noise that all the close bunnies as well as further ones run away...as opposed to shooting subsonic rounds through the same silencer to a very large extent muffles the burn of the gunpowder--that coupled with the complete lack of a sonic boom equates to, atleast in my experience, closer bunnies having a little hop around & becomg alert, but still largely staying around long enough to drop another 2 or 3, along with further ones not being too worried....and that is in an area of which there is a relatively dense population of bunnies.
So, and i quote..."When you too have had that experience, tell us again that a moderator makes no difference to the sound emanating from a supersonic projectile"...when it comes to not disturbing bunnies when shooting them within ranges capable of the said rimfire rounds...

My guess is a silencer of the same construction on a 17hmr will pump out plenty enough sound to scare off bunnies after one shot...
Admittadely, its been a long time since ive experienced this given i havnt done it since its been illegal to have a silencer on the end of a barrel.
Hopefully one day ill be able to do it again....maybe with you 49er eh... :unknown: :thumbsup:
:drinks:


So jako...just use common sense with safety at the forefront of your mind & the task at hand...& be very careful/wary of shooting through fences mate :thumbsup: ....keep within your shooting ability what ever firearm chambering you use... :drinks:
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