Hunting with heavy target bullets

[remnt]

G'day,

I get that targets bullets usually aren't any good for hunting because they don't have good weight retention and whatever else. Thing jackets and whatever other issues they have...

If you're shooting really heavy target bullets though, is it still a factor?

220gr match bullets from a .308 must still hit like a truck no matter what the bullet makeup is like, right?

Even more so for 300 win mag and other similar power cartridges.

[Baldrick314]

They'd still impart a lot of force. They just aren't designed with expansion in mind so would have unpredictable and probably inconsistent performance on game. They'd still work in a pinch though

[Chronos]

You want to waste expensive 220gr match grade bullets on animals? LOL

You'll never know how they perform until you try them I suppose, a bullet that heavy out of a .308 would be travelling pretty slow how this and its construction effect its performance is any bodies guess

Can't see the point really but each to their own I suppose. I'd've sticking with a 150gr sp at half the price if it were me

Chronos

[Utcherd]

They might hit hard, but if they're exploding to shrapnel on a shoulder bone their weight isn't making the most of itself. Weight retention is where the energy transfer and killing power is.

+1 for Chronos.

I'd save the match bullets for matches, and use a 150gr or 180gr soft point for hunting.

[remnt]

I don't "want" to use match grade bullets on animals.

Just reading and learning, trying new things if sensible or practical.

[Oldbloke]

Perhaps cut one length wise down the middle to get an idea of the construction & then compare it with various hunting projectiles. There would be an advantage if they are suitable for some hunting, it would save re-adjusting the scope each time. The projectiles of 30 yrs ago were pretty basic & they worked within there limits. Perhaps that's the key, "limited uses".

[Hennie Dreyer]

My 2 cents worth:

Hunting bullets for hunting trophies, and paper/target bullets for paper trophies. (There is a reason why they differ in construction)

In addition: although my best groupings on the range are achieved with 165gr bullets over longer distances (I do not even use target/paper bullets on the range), I really also look at what I intend hunting with my .308

On blue wildebeest and eland for instance, I go up to 180gr, and as I hunt them in bushveld country, I rarely if ever have to shoot them at distances exceeding 100 metres to 150 metres max. Groupings obtained then does not exceed 35mm, and is enough to destroy the 'boiler room' every time - ensuring humane kills.

For anything smaller and at further distances, I stick to the 165gr's.

I reload my own ammo, and for this reason keep record of what loads to use for either, as well as scope settings (It goes without saying that you really need to just make sure your rifle zeros properly at the hunting venue before going out)

[Zilla]

There would be an advantage if they are suitable for some hunting, it would save re-adjusting the scope each time.

I suppose what Oldbloke's said here is what you're hoping for remnt?

Getting a heavy match bullet your can use then go straight out hunting with?

You might do ok, honestly though all that's likely to be needed if swapping from your match to hunting loads is a few clicks up or down.

Not a big deal to remember a couple of clicks up/down when you got out on a trip. I'd find a good hunting bullet load and do it that way.

As the guys have mentioned the problem is results can be unpredictable.

[remnt]

Perhaps cut one length wise down the middle to get an idea of the construction & then compare it with various hunting projectiles.

I did this with a little hacksaw. Can't say I could see any different in the two I used TBH.

Did it with a Sierra Match king and Game King.

[D9er72]

Iv shoot foxes with 69 gr smk a fair bit out to 300 meters , used them on Mickey bulls head shot as well they are very accurate in 22/250 9 twist

[Warrigul]

I've used .308 155grain dyers on fallow and foresters with great success.

[Harper]

Did it with a Sierra Match king and Game King.

Maybe not the best example there...

I think other than the tip you'll find they're the same bullet?

Maybe a fractionally thicker jacket, but not enough for a clear difference in bullet make up.

Obviously you won't go out and but boxes of bullets just to cut up one out of each, by maybe see if you can get more of a spread from different brands etc. from mates or something to see more variety?

[batter]

I've used .308 155grain dyers on fallow and foresters with great success.

Got a website link for those bullets?

I did a Google but couldn't find anything

[Warrigul]

I've used .308 155grain dyers on fallow and foresters with great success.

Got a website link for those bullets?

I did a Google but couldn't find anything

Sorry, they are target projectiles made here in Australia, the current lot are Dyer HBC's generally only available in lots of 1000 from the State rifle association.

They are hollow and do well on thin skinned animals but it must be remembered they are target projectiles. The point I was trying to make is some target pills do work fine as long as it is only thin skinned.

[Westy]

We are using 210 Grn Bergers in a 300 Blackout and whilst it's only doing 1075FT/Sec it drops them like a tonne of bricks.

Why a 300 Blackout you ask well I say why the hell not?

[WWCowboy]

I have used .223 69Grn Sierra Match Kings before out to 200m.

Accurate to .25Moa so headshots are not a problem.

But for body shots I tend to agree with the masses and use an appropriate expanding bullet that dumps its energy within it's designed penetration zone.

[chacka]

Why a 300 Blackout you ask well I say why the hell not?

And when suppressors become legal you're ready to roll with the sub-sonics

[Hatter]

Or for when the zombies come and nobody is around to stop you getting one

[batter]

Sorry, they are target projectiles made here in Australia, the current lot are Dyer HBC's generally only available in lots of 1000 from the State rifle association.

They are hollow and do well on thin skinned animals but it must be remembered they are target projectiles. The point I was trying to make is some target pills do work fine as long as it is only thin skinned.

Interesting, they don't just sell em in mass to whoever?

Bit of an exclusive club or something eh?

[Warrigul]

Interesting, they don't just sell em in mass to whoever?

Bit of an exclusive club or something eh?

At the VRA shop http://www.vra.asn.au/shop/ammunition.shtml 155 grain HBC dyers 185 per 500, 37 cents each, anyone can buy.

We can get them through the Tasmanian association but the TRA don't have a shop and I have bought heaps of stuff via post from both the VRA and SARA.

The QRA have a good store too.

[batter]

Thanks mate. I will check out their stores.

[KRC]

Dyer now sell directly to clubs, we are getting ours for 28 cents!

[KRC]

Dyer now sell directly to clubs, we are getting ours for 28 cents!

[MeccaOz]

I've used .308 155grain dyers on fallow and foresters with great success.

Got a website link for those bullets?

I did a Google but couldn't find anything

Sorry, they are target projectiles made here in Australia, the current lot are Dyer HBC's generally only available in lots of 1000 from the State rifle association.

They are hollow and do well on thin skinned animals but it must be remembered they are target projectiles. The point I was trying to make is some target pills do work fine as long as it is only thin skinned.

+ 1

[Warrigul]

Got a website link for those bullets?

I did a Google but couldn't find anything

I have just been told about this:

This mob now make and sell the Dyer 155 HBC

http://optimusprojectiles.com

I have no idea what they are like to deal with but the new ones are as well made as the old(apparently) and it is worth trying them.

I would be interested in any feedback about the new company.

[batter]

Cheers for remembering this far back for me Warrigul

I'll check them out.

[Bigtravoz]

I've used .308 155grain dyers on fallow and foresters with great success.

I imagine that the dyer "Optimus " would be a fine projectile for that. Anyone who doesn't think a match projectile will hold together is welcome to come to the range I shoot at where you can pull as many as you want out of the mound that look nearly the same as when they were loaded. The construction of these projectiles is such that there's a considerable cavity behind the long point to a heavy lead base. This should create very good penetration but once bone structure is hit the copper at the nose section should collapse in on itself creating a quite deadly mushrooming of the jacket with the soft lead following continuing to penetrate deeply. To be downright honest I speak with lots of Aussie deer hunters who are using projectiles that have a much heavier construction than are required for the game they are shooting, especially deer hunters out for sambar, who are using projectiles more suited to shooting buffalo or elephants than a thin skinned deer.

[bigfellascott]

Ive tried them on some roos and the problem is more that they go straight through the roo even if they hit a bone. Thats at 300m. They do a fair bit of internal damage though but it a bit inhumane to see the roo jump on for 6 more hops or 50m.

Yeah that's the problem alright, hence why bullet manufacturers design bullets for different applications. I personally wouldn't bother with target type projectiles for hunting, I'd rather use hunting type projectiles for the job they were designed to do.

[Gwion]

Ive tried them on some roos and the problem is more that they go straight through the roo even if they hit a bone. Thats at 300m. They do a fair bit of internal damage though but it a bit inhumane to see the roo jump on for 6 more hops or 50m.

Yeah that's the problem alright, hence why bullet manufacturers design bullets for different applications. I personally wouldn't bother with target type projectiles for hunting, I'd rather use hunting type projectiles for the job they were designed to do.

Totally agree.
However, if you check out Nathan Fosters videos on long range hunting, he does use some VLD target bullets (Bergers from memory but could be something else) but he anneals the tip (sit bullets 2/3 in a pan of water) with a blow torch to soften the thick, hard jacket to allow it to expand on impact. Not as ideal as finding a good hunting bullet but if it's your only option then there is an option there. This is the major issue with target bullets while hunting: pinholing due to a thick and hard jacket.

[bigfellascott]

Ive tried them on some roos and the problem is more that they go straight through the roo even if they hit a bone. Thats at 300m. They do a fair bit of internal damage though but it a bit inhumane to see the roo jump on for 6 more hops or 50m.

Yeah that's the problem alright, hence why bullet manufacturers design bullets for different applications. I personally wouldn't bother with target type projectiles for hunting, I'd rather use hunting type projectiles for the job they were designed to do.

Totally agree.
However, if you check out Nathan Fosters videos on long range hunting, he does use some VLD target bullets (Bergers from memory but could be something else) but he anneals the tip (sit bullets 2/3 in a pan of water) with a blow torch to soften the thick, hard jacket to allow it to expand on impact. Not as ideal as finding a good hunting bullet but if it's your only option then there is an option there. This is the major issue with target bullets while hunting: pinholing due to a thick and hard jacket.

Spot on - they are designed to fly straight, where as the hunting projectile is designed to expand at diff rates depending on it's application - ie varmint type projectiles are designed to dump most of their energy on impact type thing (designed for soft skin/lightly built animals, hunting projectiles are designed to penetrate and expand at diff rates depending on what it's been used for and the velocities that are achieved for optimal terminal performance. All to do with the jacket thickness, the core hardness and any built in fracture lines etc.