Shooting in the rain

[TassieTiger]

Hydraulic lock has been my concern as well as poi change...your walking for miles, barrel pointed to sky via strap, quickly pull it over for a shot and wager could be in breech, barrel, action, wherever...

[Oldbloke]

But realisticly just how much would get down the barrel, barring torrential downpour?

[TassieTiger]

But realisticly just how much would get down the barrel, barring torrential downpour?

Theoretically - it doesn’t take very much to hydro lock anything, and humongous forces can result.

[Stix]

G'day Tas...
Firstly, sorry but i havnt read the entire thread...

I havnt done much walking the woods as compared to many of you other blokes...but have done a bit...

In more recent years ive tried the duct tape over barrel practice.
Not only for the walk-about routine, but also & mostly because the most shooting i do is at night from the car with a spotlight; & i rest my rifles muzzle down on passanger seat, which causes some scratching on the end of barrels... (actually the end of the barrel of my old brno 22 looks a highly polished steel ring surrounded by old 70's gun blue at the muzzle from this...i rekon im going to start a new muzzle look trend... )

Ive made a point of looking at the tape after shots & have often noticed the tape appears to have been blown off from pressure within the barrel .

Ive had to google the 'hydro lock' you mention, & i dont think a small peoce of duct tape will ever be able to cause grief in the form of hydro lock from stopping air infront of a bullet blowing out a barrel at 40 plus thousand psi of pressure...granted the pressure at the muzzle prob wont be the same as at the chamber, but still, the average car tyre is running 32 psi & duct tape wont fix a tear in the side wall.
Oil & other contaminents i wouldnt know & wouldnt risk it...

Personally, im a muzzle up guy...easier to manage the weight of rifle, easier to guide the barrel through shrubbery, less risk of suddenly slamming the crown into the ground or a rock when your feet disapear out from under you trying to work your way down that rocky or slippery slope...

Id rather my crown brush past heaps of sticks, than slam into the dirt once...

As for poi shift...are we all shooting animals, or are we shooting the rouge pubic hair poking out the forskin off a juvenile field mouse at 476 yds...?...
It wouldnt be hard to figure that out...a few groups into paper with & without tape over muzzle will give the answer, & ive not noticed a difference on fur in the field...

(Got my first Fallow this morning...YAY...!!!)

[TassieTiger]

Morning Stix, congrats on the fallow!!! Bet you enjoyed that one !!

When I did my small engine course at tafe a couple decDes ago - the teacher bought in a Holden red202 piston that was cracked in half. He told the class it was from a hydro lock with an estimated 50mls of water being in with some petrol at start up. He was proving to us the dangers of non compressible liquids and it has stuck with me.

How much water can fall into a barrel from rain over a couple hours on foot ? I really don’t know - but if I squirted even a minute 5mls in the barrel, left it for 10 mins, would you be happy to put you face near the breach knowing the pressures? I’m not sure thus the question.

Think I’ll try the tape grouping for piece of mind and see how it goes.

[bladeracer]

Ive had to google the 'hydro lock' you mention, & i dont think a small peoce of duct tape will ever be able to cause grief in the form of hydro lock from stopping air infront of a bullet blowing out a barrel at 40 plus thousand psi of pressure...

Hydraulic lock by definition involves liquids, not air.

[bladeracer]

Morning Stix, congrats on the fallow!!! Bet you enjoyed that one !!

When I did my small engine course at tafe a couple decDes ago - the teacher bought in a Holden red202 piston that was cracked in half. He told the class it was from a hydro lock with an estimated 50mls of water being in with some petrol at start up. He was proving to us the dangers of non compressible liquids and it has stuck with me.

How much water can fall into a barrel from rain over a couple hours on foot ? I really don’t know - but if I squirted even a minute 5mls in the barrel, left it for 10 mins, would you be happy to put you face near the breach knowing the pressures? I’m not sure thus the question.

Think I’ll try the tape grouping for piece of mind and see how it goes.

If the liquid has run right down to the bullet, then it would merely increase the mass of the bullet, it might rupture the case perhaps, but won't have any effect on the barrel. The greater the distance between the bullet and the blockage, the greater the pressure.

[marksman]

it is a concern and only needs a bubble to happen
the biggest concern to think about is how much water went in
its no different than over oiling and not patching the oil out will cause erratic groups as well as barrel bulge or safety concerns
in a shot gun you can blow the barrel
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/know-can ... ter-video/

I have watched a demonstration by belgian armourers who put fn scars in wheelie bins of water took them out gave them a shake and fired them
but that does not mean I will soak my rifle in water then shoot it

the tape idea is for litter that will stop obstructions but would work for a bit of rain


forgot to add goodonya Stix

[Stix]

I understand the concerns Tas...

But a internal combust engine & a rifle are 2 very diff things....

Essentially the confined energy will take the path of least resistance...in the case of that engine, id guess it was run with vslves well bedded & no corrosion etc, so the piston was the easyiest way to the vented crank case...

Imagine the damage if it was a ford engine.. .instead of being rebuilt it'd be on the scrap heap...!!


But i doubt youd get much water down a barrel, & then i doubt that amount of water would have enough surface tension & innertia to be enough to increase chamber pressures to be so high & stronger than the bolt lugs & action walls etc.
Im with OldBloke & believe any water would be blown out muzzle ahead of bullet...BUT...that doesnt change my opinion of a bit of the good ol' duct tape...i always carry 3 rolls & a pack of zip ties in my car...!!

So...if concerned, do as youre gonna & go the tape.....or you could give up hunting & send your guns to us other good fellows on here...

Cut a longer than ness bit so after the first shot you can unpeel it & move it over one way...then the other...
Yes im lazy...

Id be interested to see results of groups with tape...
Switch it up a bit...do some where the shot in middle of group is taped...try at 200 where poi shifts will be more noticable...etc etc...

You can be the official Enough Gun duct tape grouping myth busting science professor...

Why is it so...?

2019-07-08 11.19.51.jpg (37.82 KiB) Viewed 6376 times

[TassieTiger]

Cmon man, my private pics between you and me - weren’t meant for public dissemination...

[on_one_wheel]

I'd eat my hat if anyone could notice a poi change when placing a piece of tape on the muzzle in a hunting situation, and I'll be almost as surprised if a good shooter could measure the difference from a bench at hunting distances.

The old tape on the muzzle trick is a well accepted practice worldwide to prevent snow, rain and mud from getting into the barrel.

I'd do it in a heartbeat if I were to head out in the rain.

[Stix]

I missed some posts here...

Ive had to google the 'hydro lock' you mention, & i dont think a small peoce of duct tape will ever be able to cause grief in the form of hydro lock from stopping air infront of a bullet blowing out a barrel at 40 plus thousand psi of pressure...

Hydraulic lock by definition involves liquids, not air.

Yes youre right & i get that...i guess i was trying to say i dont think the receiver would blow up even with a drop of water in it & tape over the barrel...i still think it would blow out the muzzle...
But again im not advocating giving it a go...

No shotguns fired into pools of water here...


Marksman...its a shame there wasnt another camera pointed at all those guys faces above the water when that shotgun exploded...some serious WTF expressions along with a little leakage im sure...!!
An extreme example, but a good one none the less...

And thanks Marksman...

Cmon man, my private pics between you and me - weren’t meant for public dissemination...

So what about the ones in the nurses uniform...??...same deal...

[bladeracer]

Yes youre right & i get that...i guess i was trying to say i dont think the receiver would blow up even with a drop of water in it & tape over the barrel...i still think it would blow out the muzzle...
But again im not advocating giving it a go...

No shotguns fired into pools of water here...


Marksman...its a shame there wasnt another camera pointed at all those guys faces above the water when that shotgun exploded...some serious WTF expressions along with a little leakage im sure...!!
An extreme example, but a good one none the less...

And thanks Marksman...

The receiver won't blow up unless the case fails spectacularly. The pressure is between the bolt face and the blockage in the barrel, and the barrel is almost always going to be weaker than the receiver.

I'm curious if there would be a difference between 150mm of water resting against the shell, instead of the 400mm airgap between the shot and the water. Pour the water in whith the barrel pointed upwards and I think it would just have horrendous recoil, without damaging the barrel. With the muzzle in the water, the water in the barrel has nowhere to go, so it's easier to split the barrel.

[Stix]

Yes youre right & i get that...i guess i was trying to say i dont think the receiver would blow up even with a drop of water in it & tape over the barrel...i still think it would blow out the muzzle...
But again im not advocating giving it a go...

No shotguns fired into pools of water here...


Marksman...its a shame there wasnt another camera pointed at all those guys faces above the water when that shotgun exploded...some serious WTF expressions along with a little leakage im sure...!!
An extreme example, but a good one none the less...

And thanks Marksman...

The receiver won't blow up unless the case fails spectacularly. The pressure is between the bolt face and the blockage in the barrel, and the barrel is almost always going to be weaker than the receiver.

I'm curious if there would be a difference between 150mm of water resting against the shell, instead of the 400mm airgap between the shot and the water. Pour the water in whith the barrel pointed upwards and I think it would just have horrendous recoil, without damaging the barrel. With the muzzle in the water, the water in the barrel has nowhere to go, so it's easier to split the barrel.

Wel Blade, if anyone here is likely to have a random or sacrificial barreled action laying around it would be you... ...so maybe you should be the nutty professor who does the experiment for all of us--id like to see it too...as im sure many would...

Maybe we should all pitch in for a cheap as chips but functioning rifle for you to conduct the "will it or wont it" experiment...

[bladeracer]

Well Blade, if anyone here is likely to have a random or sacrificial barreled action laying around it would be you... ...so maybe you should be the nutty professor who does the experiment for all of us--id like to see it too...as im sure many would...

Maybe we should all pitch in for a cheap as chips but functioning rifle for you to conduct the "will it or wont it" experiment...

I'm not entirely against the idea, but I think I'd struggle to deliberately destroy any firearm.
The water idea is more for shotguns as they run very low pressures, about half the pressure of .22LR.

My previous dealer would've found me a rifle to experiment with as he got a lot of firearms handed in for destruction. I'll mention it to my current dealer and hopefully he'll give me a call someday with something I won't mind playing with. I am still on the lookout for a stuffed barrel I can section the chamber on for a display piece if anybody has something. Ideally something with a large enough chamber to be easy to examine, .30-06 or something like that would be ideal.

I have two barrels for my T1000 now, 20" and 28", and my preliminary testing doesn't really show the 28" to be markedly superior, so I probably won't need both of them once I finish testing. But I saw Paul Harrell did some testing with a shotgun with the last couple inches of muzzle stretched out into an oval, and the results were really good, basically a pattern a little shorter in height but significantly greater in width.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhTrfe3P4v8

[RoginaJack]

Just use a condom or the finger of a rubber washing up glove and, YES, they come in different colours. I prefer midnight black...

[Oldbloke]

it is a concern and only needs a bubble to happen
the biggest concern to think about is how much water went in
its no different than over oiling and not patching the oil out will cause erratic groups as well as barrel bulge or safety concerns
in a shot gun you can blow the barrel
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/know-can ... ter-video/

I have watched a demonstration by belgian armourers who put fn scars in wheelie bins of water took them out gave them a shake and fired them
but that does not mean I will soak my rifle in water then shoot it

the tape idea is for litter that will stop obstructions but would work for a bit of rain


forgot to add goodonya Stix

Maksman is correct. This is about a possible barrel bulg, NOT a breach blow up.

And agree with onewheel. A bit of tape will NOT effect accuracy. Ill repeat. the tape is long gone by the time bullet gets to the muzzle. Once the pressure in front of the bullet reaches about 10 psi the tape will burst leaving nothing
to touch the bullet. Deer hunters in Vic have been taping their barrels since cocky was an egg.

[brett1868]

And yet many guns will fire fine when fully submerged....

[Stix]

Hmmm...now there's a point...(not that id know, but im sure ive seen it on film somewhere...)

Have you\ tried it, or seen it done Brett...?

Maybe the sucess of this has got something to do with the pressure (lets call it atmospheric pressure) in the chamber, around the bullet, throughout the barrel & beyond, all being equal...

[SCJ429]

And yet many guns will fire fine when fully submerged....

There is some pretty good footage of an AK47 firing submerged in a swimming pool, the pressure wave precedes the bullet. The slo mo shows this clearly.

[brett1868]

Search "shooting underwater" on YouTube and there's huge amounts there, "SmarterEveryDay" has some good slow motion stuff. Would be interesting to see the difference full submersion compared to a half full barrel would behave. Given the low viscosity of water compared to oil I'd expect the shock wave in front of the projectile to force it out whereas oil would tend to stick. The other thought is why would the barrel which is reasonably hard deform and not the projectile, maybe they both do to an extent. Either way, I prefer to use condoms to protect the muzzle as they'll cover a brake and can be bought in most public toilets. Just be sure to use new ones...

[Apollo]

You are "different".....!!!!!

I'll just be careful going into public toilets....

[Wm.Traynor]

And yet many guns will fire fine when fully submerged....

There is some pretty good footage of an AK47 firing submerged in a swimming pool, the pressure wave precedes the bullet. The slo mo shows this clearly.

I cannot imagine firing a fully submerged rifle/etc. It goes against all the "full-bore-lore" that said, "Keep your cartridges and chamber dry". The reason was that wet ammo increases backthrust on locking lugs as well as changing the elevation of the point of impact.
However, I am more than willing to listen to opposing opinions

[brett1868]

You are "different".....!!!!!

I'll just be careful going into public toilets....

Yep and also "Special"