Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Game hunting and large prey. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Boar, pigs etc., large prey, culling, hunting large feral animals.

Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 18 Aug 2019, 10:58 am

Tried to post this in the target section but it didnt go up for some reason.

Thinking of getting into long range target shooting, but don't want a dedicated target rifle. So I'm looking for a setup that I can use for both. I get that it will be a little compromised for serious range target shooting, but I'm not looking to make the Aussie squad.. I just want to test myself at distances well past what I've ever shot. And I'll use the rifle for picking off particularly shy game - mostly foxes past 250. It won't be used as a big game stalking rifle, so doesn't need to be light.

One of the fellas at the range was shooting tight groups yesterday with a Howa chassis setup in 308, but I'm leaning towards 6.5. Anyone gone down a similar path? Any suggestions?

Cheers.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by JimTom » 18 Aug 2019, 12:07 pm

Have to be LA102 in 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor mate. The Lithgow is marketed as a crossover rifle. Wishing I had waited for the release of the 102 in 6.5CM.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 18 Aug 2019, 1:01 pm

Not sure why but I hadn't been thinking of Lithgow this time around, but you make a fair point. Be nice to have another Lithgow in the rack to go with an early peep sighted 22LR. I don't know much about the 102, or the 105 for that matter, so there's probably some reading for me to do.

I had been thinking that maybe something like the Ruger Hawkeye Varmit Target - I am quite partial to the grey laminate stock, or Long Range Target might be a decent choice, or the Browning X-Bolt Long Range, but I'm coming around to the concept of a tactical stock rifle as well. Anyone using them for hunting? Like the Ruger Precision Rifle or the Lithgow 105?
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Aug 2019, 1:08 pm

I’ve a custom 260 Remington that has a 21.5” heavy barrel and shoots 3 inch groups at 500 yards.
If I HAD to choose just one of my rifles for a dedicated eyeball shot, at a longer distance, to save my life - (at least until I can work on my 300), it would be this 260. I’ve taken all manner of game out to 300 with it and I’d confidently extend that range if the conditions presented.
Not sure I’d attempt a sambar at longer distances, but there is no question on a fallow.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by JimTom » 18 Aug 2019, 3:20 pm

Yeah mate I would do some research into the LA102. Heavier barrel than usual hunting rifles but not to having to carry around hunting. I am not one for tactical stocks, chassis rifles etc, instead preferring more conventional look. LA102 has plenty of choice with stock and barrel finishes.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by marksman » 18 Aug 2019, 4:40 pm

if you want to do a bit of comp it would be better to get something that will ride on bags or a rest and not something that is reliant on being shot of a bipod
I hear what you are saying about wanting to get into long range shooting and doing some comp for practise
I have seen guys with just normal varmint rifle setups with bag riders that compete very well
good luck with it :drinks:
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 18 Aug 2019, 10:49 pm

Hey I found this that I thought was interesting... checkout chapter 23. Short version - they're opening up a new target class for hunting/sporting rifles "to allow standard shop bought sporting type rifles to be used on NRAA rifle ranges. The prime purpose for its introduction is to encourage participation, rather than competition and to
foster membership."

http://www.nraa.com.au/wp-content/uploa ... l-2019.pdf
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by SCJ429 » 19 Aug 2019, 8:25 am

Get something with a 1:8 twist barrel so that you can shoot heavy projectiles. I would use a 223 but you could also try a 6.5mm.

If you are shooting off a front rest then bolt a fore end adapter onto it. This will do better than a bipod but you can do fine with a bipod. F class do some amazing things with bipods.

A Ruger, or Howa in a chassis would be a good entry level rifle.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by sungazer » 19 Aug 2019, 11:10 am

Yes all the VRA ranges have moved into a more modern approach. So your hunting rifles can be used on the range in a class of their own. Likewise a new shooter could use a crossover rifle in that class untli he feels he would like to change into another class. The only real difference in doing so would possibly changing the scoring rings on the target.

What area are you in @Vicko ? It is a wise choice to visit the range a few times even without a gun to get a feel of how its done. nearly all clubs have a well set up visitors gun or someone will loan you a gun. A note is that you will have to use Factory ammo Match ammo that the club has which is specially made. This may or may not occur depending on calibre (another thing to take note of while at the range) for the ammo it's just to take away the responsibility or liability should something go wrong.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 19 Aug 2019, 1:48 pm

Thanks SCJ - Wonder if I can get something with two mount points, one for a bipod for hunting if I choose to use it (we just use a sandbag on the mirror of the ute mostly) and another with the adaptor for the slide in mount for the front mounts they all used at the range (I dunno what they're called but no doubt you do).

Sungazer - Geelong Vic area. I ducked out and had a squiz at the Geelong range on the weekend.
I like the suggestion - might take one of my other rifles out and test some different ammo out at one of the shorter range targets to get a bit of a feel for it first. I have a new switch barrel that I've been meaning to test out so that gives me an excuse.

They did have a 223 setup for some 'visitors' that were going through later in the day but I didn't want to shoot their stuff unannounced in case they didn't have enough ammo for those better organised than me. Didnt want to be one of those flogs that turns up unannounced and then sucks up way more time than they should... They certainly offered - seemed like a nice bunch of folks.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by SCJ429 » 19 Aug 2019, 7:58 pm

There is a Stiller Preditor in 243 on Abused Guns for just over $4,000. It has a 1:10 twist but that would probably shoot 90 grain projectiles very well out at 500 metres. The 243 is dynamite on foxes and other furry critters. I would be proud to own it.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by sungazer » 19 Aug 2019, 8:05 pm

Geelong is a good club. Perhaps not as modern as some re shooting practices and equipment. But if your down that way other clubs are quite a travel.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 22 Aug 2019, 12:00 pm

Yep Geelong has all electronic targets now - new system put in recently. Seems to be pretty nice. Each station has a tablet showing the target.

Looking at a bunch of options atm from traditional stocks to more chassis styled:
Ruger Hawkeye FTW Hunter - https://www.ruger.com/products/HawkeyeF ... 47170.html
Ruger Hawkeye Predator - https://www.ruger.com/products/HawkeyeP ... 47108.html
Ruger Long Range Hunter - https://www.ruger.com/products/HawkeyeL ... 47198.html
Ruger Long Range Target - https://www.ruger.com/products/HawkeyeL ... 47184.html
I don't really like the brown speckle paint on the ruger long range ones tho :(

Howa GRS - https://www.howausa.com/grs
Howa Bravo - https://www.howausa.com/bravo

And of course the Aussies:
Lithgow 102 - http://www.lithgowarms.com/la-102-crossover/
Lithgow 105 - http://www.lithgowarms.com/la-105-woomera/

I guess I should also look at the CZ 557.. https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-557-american/
It'd match my 457 nicely.. although the American barrel might not be heavy enough for target shooting. Would heat up a bit.
Anyone have any ideas when they might be releasing a Varmint/Heavy barrel?
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by JimTom » 22 Aug 2019, 5:38 pm

Mate I have the CZ557. Got it a few years ago. Great accurate rifle but yep, if you have a bit of a range session, barrel does tend to heat up a bit.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 22 Aug 2019, 6:18 pm

Arguably these should be on the list too
Savage GRS https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=fi ... ry&s=22599

Tikka T3XTac - https://choose.tikka.fi/global/code/TFST63M41B5

Browning X Bolt Max Long range - https://www.shootingillustrated.com/art ... ong-range/
Browning X Bolt LR Speed Canyon - https://www.browning.com/products/firea ... illan.html

Anyone know anything about these? Nice looking stock...
Browning XBolt Eclipse Target - https://www.browning.com/products/firea ... et-18.html
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Aug 2019, 7:19 pm

What's the max type range do you think you will shooting foxes at? That will help with cal choice.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by sungazer » 22 Aug 2019, 7:46 pm

You really dont have a lot of choices when it comes to calibre. You can go 223 or 308 and shoot in FTR / FSTD or 6mm 6.5mm or 7 mm to be competitive and shoot in F open.

So then you look at those calibres and think which one you would like to shoot in a hunting rifle.

Then you look at factory rifles the best being a Savage 12 the Lithgows are also note worthy. If you do go the F open route the cross over part become much harder as the competition rifles all shoot straight taper or lack of taper with straight 1.25 inch barrels.

My cross over rifle is a Rem 700 in 308 with a custom 28 inch barrel, It needs a new stock. I also have a full custom rifle for competition.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by SCJ429 » 22 Aug 2019, 8:25 pm

Stay away from the Browning unless you enjoy a challenge. The Savage can be good if you luck onto a good barrel.

If you had the budget to build something you could buy a Ultimatum action for $650 and build a nice thing for a bit over $3,000.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by straightshooter » 23 Aug 2019, 8:02 am

Whatever factory rifle you choose, in order to have some semblance of competitiveness at longer ranges pick one with a long heavy barrel. Preferably at least 26" long and a straight taper and without fluting.
Careful consideration of your scope and mount will also be necessary. Either go for a scope with a very wide adjustment range which will restrict you in the maximum magnification available or go to a tapered mount. With the tapered mount the scope will also need enough adjustment range so you can zero for 100 or 200 yards for example.
The various 6.5mm cartridges are the current fad calibers but that said who knows what the fad will be in a couple of years time.
I would suggest that the mundane, boring 308 would be the better option.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 23 Aug 2019, 2:50 pm

Thanks folks, few answers to catch up with:

I don't think I'd want/need to much go beyond 350m for foxes/pigs/deer as I work my way up.
Bear in mind that I do have access to a light 30-06 as a stalking shorter distance rifle.

I'd been leaning to 6.5 over 308 as they're inherently more flatter and more accurate and can do everything up to Sambar.
And as an entry point into long range stuff I'm assuming it will be easier for me to learn on. Happy for opinions though!

I've fallen a little bit in love with these GRS laminate stocks btw.. droooool - https://www.grsriflestocks.com/rifle-stocks/grs-hybrid
They're around the $800 mark.
Wonder how much it would cost to drop the Lithgow 102 or Tikka Tac action into that..

I see a glass GRS stocked 26inch Howas for under $1400.. and Bravos for a bit less.
That seems tempting. If I budget for about the same on glass that'd be a reasonable setup wouldn't it?
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by sungazer » 23 Aug 2019, 4:40 pm

Sorry mate the 6.5 doesn't quite make the 270 cal or greater could find yourself on the wrong side of the law there. The Police and Ranges can be very active in the Deer habitat as well so be on your toes.

The Flatter part is also a bit of a stretch at 500 yrds it is like 0.5 MOA and at 1000 3 MOA in 27 so you are always going to be tweaking the turrets and either have a good memory or a DOPE chart.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 23 Aug 2019, 7:43 pm

Not intending to go outside of reg's - I had been told it was only Sambar that was restricted by the 270 thing but I just checked and its 270 and up for Sambar, Red and Rusa here in Vic which pretty much only leaves Fallow. I know there's Fallow where I am, but I'd be keen to go after Reds and Rusa's too. My mates place up near Eilldon has plenty of those on it (and Sambar). I do have the 30-06 to fall back on. But you make a fair point. I could keep the 30-06 as a stalking/pig rifle with a smaller aimpoint...

I just checked again and you're right its not much flatter, gets a bit less wind drift and reaches past 1000 more easily before dipping into the transonic window. Certainly recoil is only about 2/3rds of the 308. Having not done any long range stuff I'd have thought that would make a pretty big difference. As mentioned I'm completely new to this stuff. Plenty of spotting foxes and bunnies so far, but not much else.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by SCJ429 » 23 Aug 2019, 8:31 pm

What is a tapered scope mount Staight shooter? I didn't follow what you were saying there.

Were you saying he should get a canted pic rail?
Last edited by SCJ429 on 23 Aug 2019, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by SCJ429 » 23 Aug 2019, 8:45 pm

I think a boring 223 will do much better than a boring 308 for someone starting out with some distance shooting. With a 1:8 twist barrel and some 80 grain Bergers you can do very well from 500 to 1000 and show the 308 shooters how it is done.

No you shouldn't use it for deer but foxes find it pretty objectionable.

I have never been beaten by a 6.5 when shooting a 6mm. The problem with factory rifles is not many of them offer a 1:8 twist barrel for the 6mm offerings.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 23 Aug 2019, 9:06 pm

Yeah.. take deer back off the list. I can use the 30-06 if I really want to go after them. (I didn't really follow the taper comment either so I'm glad you asked SCJ).

I hear ya on the 1:8 thing - that seems to be repeated by a lot of people.
Lots of folks banging on about the 6.5PRC too.. fmd another one to consider...
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by SCJ429 » 23 Aug 2019, 9:48 pm

The good thing about the Creedmoor and 260 is you can buy Lapua brass. In the Creedmoors favour you get brass with a small primer but you can make 260 brass from 308 Palma brass which gets you a small primer too. With the PRC you are stuck with Hornady brass which sucks.

If you want a Magnum sized case you could consider a WSM but all of these cases will be much harder to shoot than the puny 223. If you could find yourself a Tikka Varmint, some Lapua brass and some Berger projectiles, you would have a lot of success.
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by Vicko » 24 Aug 2019, 2:21 pm

So I paid the LGS another visit today. Shouldered a few rifles and checked out actions. Thoughts below.

Tikka T3 GRS. Bull barrel. Heavy overall, but nice stock. Soft grip feels nice. Shape is good. Reckon the laminate version would be mint... Action feels nice. Well built (as it should be for the price)

Howa 1500 Varmint barrel. Cant remember the model, synth brown heavy stock with dark flecks. Weight was ok, action was pretty ordinary though. Felt sloppy and cheap. Built quality a big step down from the Tikka.. but it's less than half the price.

Ruger Hawkeye forest laminate sporter barrel. Super light. Wasn't really the weight that I'm looking for but I just wanted to feel the stock and action. Stock was lovely. Action didn't impress me to be honest. Felt only marginally better than the Howa.

Lithgow 102 synth. Felt the best quality and action to me. Impressive. Massive bolt size.. that bastard aint going anywhere... Big varmint barrel too. Weight felt ok. By the time a decent scope and bipods are added it'll have some heft to it. Not sure a 105 would be that usable for spotting if its another 1.5kilo.. so I ight give that a miss. Stock design doesn't really do it for me though. So I'll look for some options. Seems MDT and Lucky 13 are already doing chassis stocks to fit, I dunno if anyone os doing laminate ones (which I think I'd prefer). Might ping a note to Boyds and GRS. But I'd expect those chassis setups would improve the accuracy even further than the factory stocks yeah?
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Re: Target - Hunting crossover rifle?

Post by SCJ429 » 24 Aug 2019, 2:33 pm

Admittedly the Tikkas I have worked with have all showed excellent accuracy with the factory Tupperware stocks, all well under 1/2 at 100. But they retained their accuracy when mounted in GRS Bifrost and various chassis.
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