Farmers jumping on Safari bandwagon

[Bill]

Last time I was out at Silverdale rifle range I had a yak to the fella sighting in rifles next door, next thing he is offering to take me to a couple of his hunting properties, unfortunately I had to decline his invitation as I just had too much on.

i always have a yak to 2 or 3 other shooter nearby as thats my nature

[Die Judicii]

To AM88,,,,,,,,,,
I did not take it that you were "rubbishing farmers" Mate,,,,,, I was just saying it the way things are these days.
IF you could do just one weekend (maybe even without f/arms) and visit as many properties/stations as possible,, and make yourself known face to face.
Your chances of getting favorable responses are far greater than just being a faceless voice from God only knows where,, on the telephone.
You aren't going to be accepted all the way throughout the weekend, but at least some may say yes.
After all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, How many properties/stations do you think you can service adequately anyhow ??

Then once you've got one or some that will give you a go, return next week end or month at an agreed time, and do your stuff.
Do it well and Mr Farmer may then put in a good word to a neighboring property that previously refused you.
Quality,,, Not Quantity,,,,,,,, and Make haste slowly.

I speak from experience of being both a shooter looking for an opening,,,,, as well as being a property owner myself

To Wapiti
What I said/meant was by showing that you, (the shooter) at least have insurance will go a step closer to being accepted as opposed to those that have nothing at all.
But at the end of the day the shooter still has to demonstrate responsibility, trust,safety, reliability etc etc ad infinitem.

As for payment,,,, there are a lot of shooters these days that are willing, and do, pay the farmer. Nothing wrong with that.

[Spanielz11]

It really is a shame to see some shooters take places they go for granted, the way some behave, and some even expecting farmers to pay THEM. Not in all cases sure, but here, you'd only have to go into the local farm joint and get a list of people who'd be out in a flash for nix, locals too.

We priced the extra premium for having hunters on, to "cover" us, it was between $600 and $1100 a year. I'd bet 99% of farms wouldn't even consider this, until they have a shooter who rolls a quad and breaks his neck, or anything else, and sues. Because the guest will sue, as his family now has lost a bread winner. And having the insurance doesn't stop you from being taken to court initially, with the insurance company looking to minimise their payout.
This is a big risk, and this is the world we live in now. I have heard, that some places are demanding to see personal liability insurance for pro shooters before they are allowed on, as legally they are no different from a subby tradesman who can't start on a site without his personal liability, as there's money involved. The SSAA insurance in your membership doesn't cover any of this, ask them. We did.

So why can't a farmer charge for the use of his place to get some money out of it? Nobody goes to a national park for free, or a 4wd park either.

If that is the case mate, that its going to incur an extra 1100 dollarydoos a year for the insurance, I would have no qualms paying that portion for the owners, for the duration i have access to that property i.e each year i can shoot there i'd cover that cost. That peace of mind for the landowner is worth more to everyone involved than the price of the premium.

A question here to the landowners that are following this thread, do you still find that fella's offer their services where they can? like repairing fences, helping work on the machinery (obviously if its within their skill) etc,etc. Just from chatting to a lot of blokes around the mid 20 age bracket it comes across as most just wanting a free pass to go and be yahoo's. just my 2c.

[Member-Deleted]

G'day Wapiti mate you say the ssaa insurance doesn't cover for the need to shoot on properties as you've said you've been in contact with them i'm not sure how it stands but with the Shooters Union they have a liability insurance for their members i'm pretty sure it covers all liabilities but will check to make sure but on insurance it's best you have your own insurance anyway especially when shooting on other peoples properties that way you know the insurance is there and you design it to cover all aspects of hunting and shooting on properties not belonging to you it is a basic safety net to save you drama if something was to happen also show it to the farmer and it will show him/her that you are working toward his/her interests as well its not rocket science to gain access to properties just rock up well dressed and ask there's two answers ''yes'' or ''no'' just ringing up is a little daunting for most farmers but if ringing is better for you then do so but all the farmers around me would not give you access by phone call I don't know how many times it's been said but the farmer has last say if you are prepared to pay for access good for you that's fine if you get paid to shoot that's fine to good luck if you are prepared to shoot for nothing just to gain access then that's fine to there are many opinions with different wants and needs you can't possibly have one answer but the outcome is the same dead pests so people no matter what you need it will not be the same as the next fellow or what you are prepared to do to gain access will not be the same as the next fellow and property owners are not all alike but all require complete adherence to their requirements for your access as there is a lot at stake for them you are entering their home one would say and at end of the day the farmer can do as he sees fit with his property we may not like it at times but that goes with the territory of shooting someone else's land whether we like it or not

[Wapiti]

Hi Granddadbushy, I called SSAA Insurance to ask and they told me the automatic members insurance doesn't cover my liability for having anyone on the place. My wife and I are both in the Shooters Union also, same deal with them. They could probably explain it better than I ever could and only know the yes and no of it.
We sat down with Wesfarmers WFI who do our stuff last year, to make sure we have covered ourselves properly in this day and age, the manager was absolutely insistent we either don't let anyone past the gate without specialist liability insurance (which they won't touch as it's not worth the trouble, he reckons) or don't let anyone on at all.
He told us of a few farmers who have lost their complete life's work from a hunter rolling a quad and being TPD, vehicle and firearm accidents resulting in that and worse, he hears the worst of it. So we started to look around, and it's expensive.
I bet most farmers have no idea how serious this legal liability stupidity is, and think their 10 or 20 mil liability in teir farm and contents covers it but it does not.

Spanielz11 that's a real gracious thing to say, that you'd pay the cost to get access, sole access of course. Most wouldn't though, either money is tight or would rather see it as a favour exchange.

Working for favours is something that's a mixed bag, some farmers would love a sparky to install an aircon or plumber to sort out a bathroom in exchange for hunting, others know then that it's now an "exchange of favours" which is the same as paying a daily rate to hunt, in the eyes of the law. That ups the liability again. Its actually less of a potential cost to get someone in to do the job whos an insured subcontractor. The world is rapidly becoming very difficult, and it's the lawyers that have made it like this.

[GQshayne]

Hi Granddadbushy, I called SSAA Insurance to ask and they told me the automatic members insurance doesn't cover my liability for having anyone on the place. My wife and I are both in the Shooters Union also, same deal with them. They could probably explain it better than I ever could and only know the yes and no of it.
We sat down with Wesfarmers WFI who do our stuff last year, to make sure we have covered ourselves properly in this day and age, the manager was absolutely insistent we either don't let anyone past the gate without specialist liability insurance (which they won't touch as it's not worth the trouble, he reckons) or don't let anyone on at all.
He told us of a few farmers who have lost their complete life's work from a hunter rolling a quad and being TPD, vehicle and firearm accidents resulting in that and worse, he hears the worst of it. So we started to look around, and it's expensive.
I bet most farmers have no idea how serious this legal liability stupidity is, and think their 10 or 20 mil liability in teir farm and contents covers it but it does not.

Spanielz11 that's a real gracious thing to say, that you'd pay the cost to get access, sole access of course. Most wouldn't though, either money is tight or would rather see it as a favour exchange.

Working for favours is something that's a mixed bag, some farmers would love a sparky to install an aircon or plumber to sort out a bathroom in exchange for hunting, others know then that it's now an "exchange of favours" which is the same as paying a daily rate to hunt, in the eyes of the law. That ups the liability again. Its actually less of a potential cost to get someone in to do the job whos an insured subcontractor. The world is rapidly becoming very difficult, and it's the lawyers that have made it like this.

Its a shame in another respect too - the property we used to hunt was sold a number of years ago now, but we are still in contact with our grazier friends. We have been to family weddings and seen a number of children born, and now grown up, and a funeral too. Just recently, we heard they were trying to collect photos of the family farm, and were finding it difficult. They had obviously not taken many themselves. But we had photos of many things taken over 25 years or so that we had been there. We gave them what photos we had at a family gathering they were having, and looking over them, she commented that we had been a part of their lives for a very long time. And that is how we think of it too. We also learned a lot about the land, what good land management was, and wool growing. Experiences we would not have had otherwise.

All because we went there to go hunting. Something that is becoming rarer nowadays. Very sad.

[Member-Deleted]

Ah yes Wapiti I can see what you mean the ssaa and shooters union are saying the insurance covers the shooter for being sued not the loss or damage to the farmer sucks doesn't it ? so I do agree something should be available for both parties

[Shootermick]

Hunters are privileged to be allowed onto a family’s farm. And unfortunately a small few do the wrong thing and that causes the farmer to shut the gate to everyone in the end.