Bullets placement, bullet types

[Am88]

This is not a question, nor statement, just interesting to me, I don't read books but I read a lot online and I like watching these old school gun smiths, more specifically on YouTube. These pair seem to concur on pretty much alot, bullet types, shot placement, wanting bullets that hold together and go through and through etc. And I found it interested that Nathan foster, said the opposite, that monolithic bullets are no good in a short way to put it and you need expanding bullets that dissipate all their energy. I find this stuff interesting so others may aswell. They are both talkers and can be a bit long winded but I kind of use them like audio books

https://youtu.be/pBDm41duCTo

https://youtu.be/FXJTk0VgvYI

[Oldbloke]

Yanks talk a lot dont they. Lol. Nearly fell asleep.

But yes, I use interlocks and i think these are really the minimum. And keep all shots under 200 yards. Well thats what I do.

[Stix]

Gday Am88.

Im not sure if youve put this up for discussion, or just want to move on...

But thought id annoy everyone with a start anyway...
First up, these vids do nothing for me, but i listened to a bit of them anyway, so as to maybe get some discussion going...
To be honest, --and this is no disrespect to you at all--i like that youve put them up mate-- --info is info & sharing what we like is a good thing i rekon... -but for me, i think those blokes are a liitle(a LOT actually) up themselves, & just there for a little (huge amounts of) self notoriety..
.
That first Video, the guy spends the first 14 mins talking about what i would call long range shooting Elk..along with seemingly bagging certain bullets & crapping on terminology of "modern technology" in bullets these days, citing that one bullet is just the same as one he used when he was 14 & shot his first Elk at umpteen thousand yards with his 30,000 H&H (no he wasnt bragging at all, i mean all 14 yo's start shooting Elk at that range with those big cals, being so superman-like with 600 plus range estimations that they head shoot them ... ...nope...definately not an overinflated sense of greatness... )... .& from memory he even calls it hunting...then somewhere in the 14 minute mark he contradicts himself, & goes on to explain in all his wisdom that those ranges ARE NOT hunting, rather they are long range varminting/shooting & require no skill...

I switched off at that point...i just cant watch that rubbish--there are too many of those old codgers around that sprook their own greatness, but if challenged, cant hit a rabbit at 150 yds...

The second bloke...i was in stitches at the 1.35 mark & hit the "X" on the yooChoob tab at 1.38...

Watch it from the 1 min mark hes babbling away, at around the 1.20 mark he's puffed his chest out & starts crapping on people who mention "bullet placement" & says "if i see that one more time...etc etc...bla bla...ill puke...",
At 1.31 he suggests that bullet placement "is about the worst possible answer there is"-----AND THEN..RIGHT THERE... ... ...THEN he says...and i quote..."Yes it is about bullet placement"...

I tried mate...but its gone...i just cant watch that crap...!!!

HOWEVER,,,!!
I Do like talking about bullet performance on game...so id love to chat about it...!!...just not based around what self righteous Dik-wads have to claim about how great they arent...!!...

I have seen a few of NT's clips, & i like how he studies the organs...i take similar, but always as in depth, note of the state of stuff i shoot...so im a fan of the way he goes about that, & bi think being so observant teaches us a lot of valuable infoe...not just about the bullets, but the different game we shoot, & even the different ranges, ages & conditions etc etc...

By the way...the very beginning of the clip already shows he is there for an ego trip...!!...he calls his dog over & specifically commands it to come over the other side, but it barely even obliges him with a quick sniff from where it is & wanders off as if to say "Eff you ya stoopid ol'coot... ...the give-away is his excuse about a stink bug or some such crap...any dog loving dog owner can see right through that...maybe the he killed the stink bug with good bullet placement...

Sorry...call me a bum if you like...& i mean no offence at all to you mate.. ...i love what you do with those deer...

By the way, im a fan of penetration to body with max damage to the vitals...bullets kill by shock, & to have a through n through leaving a blood trail is crap i rekon...
Ive experienced first hand how shock works---had a pretty horrrific injury once & didnt feel a thing--it was amazing...!!...so id rather have an animal succumb to shock & go to sleep than fill its blood stream with adrenaline & chase it down...

I think its important to try bullets for yourself on game, see the result & find one that suits your needs...

Some people have silly expectations for bullets...(maybe im one of them... )...but finding out yourself is the way...

For example, i tried a bullet on goats in my 7-08 that another guy used on goats religiously & without fail...but unless i head shot them, i mostly got through n thru's on chest shots...one big nanny didnt drop until she had 3 of these suckers tunnel right through her...

Anyway...gotta go for now...

But keen to hear anything you have to say about what you use on what game & why...

[SCJ429]

The problem with diddlywappers shooting game at long range is the variables increase, so your shot placement can be less than ideal. Then your bullet has less velocity and may not perform very well and pencil through. Best to use a highly frangable bullet, keep your ranges reasonable and go for high percentage shot. If the shot is dodgy, don't pull the trigger. Do some more stalking and get yourself in a better position.

What bullet are you talking for what game?

[SCJ429]

I have used 110 TNT in a 7mm on goats and been very happy with the performance. Never penciled through and if they did come out it left massive damage. No shots over 300 though.

[Oldbloke]

Yep, get closer and remove the variables. And some of the human error. Most people tend to exagerate their own abilities in the field also.

[Am88]

Bloody hell stix took me a while to read that no offence taken mate I probably should have mentioned I wasn't really trying to say I take them videos as gospel, cause yes they ramble on, I just used them videos as examples because when you can compress through all the dribble they carry on with there is some useful bits. I was more so referring to the. Both agreeing about bullets wanting to go through and through, collapse the lungs etc. The bearded one, Randy Selby, is clearly quite fond of himself aswell, in other videos he was talking about his cartridge he invented/made/wildcatted. He may have mentioned it in that video the 7mm-404 Wapiti express. A 404 Jeffrey case with 7mm bullets. That would be movin along.

My experience with bullets is far from large and I am now only just trying these monolithic bullets, hence why I was having a sticky beak around. I do know that 165 hornady interlocks go clean through chital and leave and exit wound bigger then my fist. An 87gr Speer Hot Cor from my .25-06 chest entry ended up ruining a backstrap. And 55gr vmaxs at the skull neck junction from a rear shot nearly decapitated it.

[SCJ429]

Hard to believe the yootube gunsmith guy used a Sierra Matchking for shooting elk and then is suprised that it didn't work well. Match bullets have very tough jackets so you can spin them very quickly and they don't come apart. No thought is given to how they would expand on game. Sierra make excellent Blitzkings and Gamekings which work pretty well in my experience. Old Selby may be the expert when it comes to shooting elk and I agree that a Nosler Partisioner is a good choice for big deer species.

[tophet1]

Both YouTubers would be referred to as 'FUDS' I believe. A term I've discovered has come into use in the last six years while I've been out of shooting. Its a debate that has been going on since Gronk claimed his club of Oak was better than Grunts club of maple.

What I have found as a FUD myself is that there is no universal combination, but marketers want us to believe there is.

What I do believe, is that certain combinations work better than others depending on WHERE WE HUNT, what we hunt and how we hunt. This is one factor that generates these debates. From my experience here is what I have found works and doesn't work.

If in doubt use a slightly heavier for calibre conventional projectile.

Open grass veldt in Africa:
308W and 165 Woodleigh
.243 with 100 Nosler partition

Close bushveldt:
308W and 165 Woodleigh
9.3x62 with any 286 projectile.

My favourite heavily timbered valley with steep wooded sides. Big goats and ferals.
218Bee with 45 WW HP's. (Low noise and close ranges reduce the chance of scaring other game in the area)

NZ Red deer:
7x57 140 Sierra Spt

Outback Camels:
.243 again. Conventional 100 Spts for head and neck shots.
264WM with 140 Woodleighs (Ultimate set up)
What doesn't work on Camels:
7x57 with 175 Woodleighs

Ferals, goats, fox, rabbits, pigs and general spotlighting, gongs:
.223 with Sierra 65 Sptbt.

Target shooting gongs:
308 with Sierra 175 Match

We try and use new combinations based on experience, marketing and perceptions. All discussion is good as it usually turns up a pearl of wisdom we can all use.

[Blr243]

I operate outside the norm with regards to projectile choice I use fragile varmint projectiles on medium game (87 vmax on pigs small or large). But it still works for me with no wounding and 98 per cent of pigs don’t need a second shot ..... it works because of excellent shot placement that happens because I’m lying prone shooting with a bipod .... close range. the rifle shoots moa or better , I’m not in a hurry because the pig is unaware of my presence , 100 per cent of my shots are broadside heart/ lung at relaxed pigs ... I never ever shoot from behind I never have brush to shoot through. If I was daytime running through the bush shooting at targets running away I would prob b useing a 308 with 168 grain soft points

[marksman]

l agree with Nathan Foster that its better to have a bullet that wastes all or as much of its energy in the animal at any distance
l have been using berger hunting bullets in my 30-06 on sambar for a while now and have not had a failure as yet touch wood
l am doing brain and neck shots, so far out to over 300yds

l have also had very good results with 130gr accubond bullets on deer the longest shot being 650yds,
the result of the 650 shot was that the heart was fragmented and the liver/lungs were liquified the bullet exited pulling out an intestine
that was a chest shot and l wont do it again not because it was difficult or an iffy shot but because it is a waste to lose so much meat, better to head or neck shoot and eat it all no waste
my recent dasher deer was hit with a berger 105gr 6mm hunting bullet, l use a few different berger hunting bullets successfully

l have used Nathan Fosters method of annealing smk's for hunting and have used them at good distances with good results but only brain shots so it does not matter what you use if you can shoot straight, these shots have always popped the eyes and blew a big hole out the side

another l use a bit in my 270wsm is the hornady sst's, they act very strange when doing a chest shot sometimes but if they shoot straight in your rifle they are a good one to use for hunting
Amax bullets, Vmax or Zombiemax have been good hunting bullets although l have had some problems with Vmax 22 cal when brain shooting roo's on tags

the harder projectiles eg.. interlocks have a place but the idea is different, you want the bullet to exit and when the animal runs off it bleeds out quickly leaving a blood trail that you can follow, lots of animals are lost because they run off and the hunter cant find them, the animal still dies but it cant be found
the copper monolith type bullet is supposed to open up and have like knife blades (petals) cutting its way through the arteries ect..
but the same story as above
they can also cause very high pressure in your rifle as they do leave a hell of a lot of copper in the bore, or what l have observed, l would not use them

the idea of using a sturdy bullet that will hold together is an old idea that has been debunked for soft skinned game
if you want to shoot straight there are plenty of bullets made to a match grade that are made to hunt with and made to expend its energy in the animal not the mound behind it but you have to find what your rifle likes to shoot

[Oldbloke]

If used within limitations/parameters all modern bullets should do the job. Lets face it, lead bullets worked for a two centuries, but again with limitations.