What does it take to get the fastest kill possible?

[handofcod]

Putting shooter accuracy aside, is it possible to reliably and consistently get dead on the spot, bang-flop kills on larger game like deer?

I don't mind admitting it, I'm a big softy compared to most and can't stand the idea that a deer might run off on me with a hole through it. I want to know if it's possible to get kills like someone's cut the strings on a marionette every time. Or is it inevitable that I'll get runners? I've heard of something called hydrostatic shock but it sounds a bit vague to me. I'm sure headshots would achieve this but I'm not thrilled about the extra risk because of the much smaller target size.

[Member-Deleted]

The more you do it the more confident you will become.

[tom604]

hollow point bullets, speer do a 130gr one that i use on goats and they just shudder and drop,im not big on head shots as well, why shoot at a target thats the size of your hand that if your off by 2 inches or it moves as heads will do, you shoot their lower jaw off? (worst case) saying that i head shoot bunnys and thats a smaller target

[SendIt]

I've heard of something called hydrostatic shock but it sounds a bit vague to me.

Hydrostatic shock is a legitimate phenomenon.

Basically the impact of the bullet sends a pressure wave through the fluid in the targets body which can stun or damage the brain even though it was not directly damaged by the wound channel.

e.g. a solid shot to the upper chest or neck can cause a concussion or hemorrhaging in the brain.

Have said that though it's hardly a sure thing. Bullet weight, velocity, weight retention, point of impact, expansion or pass-through etc. all effect the result (or lack of).

Same concept as an explosion. You don't have to be burnt to a crisp by it - it's not the fire that gets you, it's the shock wave.

To your actual question then...

Correct bullet choice is obviously important.

Headshots are another obvious answer but as you say, you can't do that 100% of the time.

Outside of that you just need to be aiming for the most damage possible to the most vital areas.

Whatever you're hunting, deer, pigs goats.. Do a Google to find a little anatomy and learn where their heart, lungs etc. sit. You want to put it straight through there. If you were shooting a calibre on the smaller side, avoiding any masses of bone if possible would also be ideal.

As we're talking deer, and by looking at your signature, I assume you're talking about hunting with your .308 Scout?

[Norton]

Honestly just shooting heavy pills out of your .308 will take most of the guess work out of it if you're worried.

180gr soft point to the chest and a deer is going down, no questions asked.

TBH though that's overkill for most stuff, just an example...

What loads are you actually shooting?

[Vati]

Short of using an excessively powerful calibre that turns your target to goo I wouldn't say there is a 100% fool proof, guaranteed way for instant "bang flop" shots every time.

While you might get it a lot of the time, a little kicking or a short run is just unavoidable at times. Nerves and all that, the body doesn't realise it's dead yet etc.

Shot placement is key as always, and .308 is definitely powerful enough to get it done as humanely as can be. Just avoid deliberately shooting them in the hide quarter or areas with non-vitals. Googeling for a bit of an anatomy lesson is good advice.

Pick the right bullet... Hornady SST, Nosler Accubond, Remington Core Lokt etc. and they'll all do the job with a shot to the boiler room.

[handofcod]

Shooting 165gr SSTs out of the 308 but just paper for the moment. I'm trying to eliminate as many variables as possible and the biggest one for the time being is me and my shooting.

[Westy]

What does it take to get the fastest kill possible?????

Two Words

HEAD SHOT

[Hercl]

Mate, Not being dismissive of your desire for humane kills (which I agree with) but honestly I think you're over thinking it a bit considering what you're shooting.

165gr SST's is definitely a suitable hunting load for deer. I'm not sure you quite appreciate the level of damage that will cause...

When you say "might run off on me with a hole through it" that wont be a pencil size hole. It will be an entry wound the size of the bullet, then as the bullet expands and does it's work the would channel will be the size of your arm.

When you're aiming for the heart, you're not putting a 5c coin size hole through it. The previously discussed wound channel will destroy everything in it's path and surrounding areas instantly.

Chest shots with a .308 165gr and you're going to get a lot of instant drops.

There are people doing the same with smaller calibres and lighter pills every day.

[handofcod]

Thanks for your help guys. I know I'm over thinking this - I guess I'm just trying to figure out if there is more to it than putting a sufficiently large wound channel through the vitals. I did watch a hunting show recently where a very experienced hunter and his buddy failed to put an elk down between them with three shots at close range (inside 50m from what I could tell). He was carrying a 7mmMag but not sure what his friend was carrying.

To me, that's unacceptable from a humane killing perspective but also from a safety point of view. He was charged when he got close enough to tell it was still very much alive.

Short of buying a rifle in 416Rigby is there anything that should be considered if you want quick kills?

[Hennie Dreyer]

'handofcod' - rest assured that your .308 is more than up to the task. We nail Eland/blue wildebeest/kudu etc here with it with awesome results (and your choice of 165gr bullets has nothing wrong in it - quite awesome in fact - I presume you have a barrel with a 1:12 twist on that rifle)
Place your shots in the boiler room, and your quest for humane kills will be fulfilled (You definitely - sometimes - will have a runner for short distances, but this will be because (as someone else has mentioned) the animal does not realise it is dead already, and adrenaline/nerves and those things have kicked in
Make sure you can shoot straight, and that you have the ideal bullet for max penetration (Please do not go through the 'second guessing' phase, making yourself nervous and unsure)

[Norton]

Short of buying a rifle in 416Rigby is there anything that should be considered if you want quick kills?

I think you've already made all reasonable considerations.

And that's from a .416 Rigby shooter

[Lorgar]

Shooting 165gr SSTs out of the 308 but just paper for the moment.

FYI I was shooting 150gr SSTs when using my .308.

I normally get sighted in at a clearing in a state forest and I can tell you from experience that the 150gr will go through a 25cm hardwood tree at 100m all day long. And take the back of the tree with it...

Apply that to flesh and bone and you get the idea. That plus the extra from your heavier pill.

(p.s. Dear rangers, that's a stump or dead tree...)

[Combat_Wombat]

Medically speaking severing the spinal cord is the most efficient way, you know when you hit the spine when the target locks up in rigori mortis straight away

[Baronvonrort]

Headshots are fine if you get the brain, if you miss you could blow the lower jaw off and have them run away and probably starve to death, a spinal shot does not kill them quickly, go for the heart it is a bigger target and kills them instantly which is considered more humane, it is found just behind the front leg in the lower third of the chest, works well for banteng,camel,pig,wild horse,donkey,buffalo,deer and goat.

[disko]

When you say "might run off on me with a hole through it" that wont be a pencil size hole. It will be an entry wound the size of the bullet, then as the bullet expands and does it's work the would channel will be the size of your arm.

I can't claim to be an expert in this stuff, but I reckon that's pretty obvious and am surprised people over look this or worry about it so much.

I've read a bunch of posts with people shooting .308 and similar who talk about being worried the bullet will miss the heart and pass through without hitting anything vital. Like you said, like a pencil just slipping through without hitting anything important.

After the shot though it looks like a hammer got thrown through their chest, not a tiny little bullet.

(Not having a dig at you handofcod, just talking )

[Combat_Wombat]

Even if you miss the heart the ballistic shockwave from the round usually stops it or causes enough damage to kill

[handofcod]

What about neck shots guys? Easier than a headshot?

[reddog]

Neck shot is the same as a spine shot not an instant kill just turns them into a quadraplegic , as others have said head shots are instant , boiler room shots are your best bet as it is a much bigger target especially if you are worried about the animal . Also if you use to heavily constructed bullet they will drill straight through with out much expansion especially if they dont hit bone Which is why your 308 may well kill quicker than Nortons 416 on deer .

[SendIt]

...boiler room shots are your best bet as it is a much bigger target especially if you are worried about the animal.

Yep. For the most consistent, effective shots boiler room is the ticket IMO.

[Norton]

Which is why your 308 may well kill quicker than Nortons 416 on deer.

I'm only using the .416 because I worked my way up to it trying new things and found it fun too.

Definitely not essential for deer.

[reddog]

I'm only using the .416 because I worked my way up to it trying new things and found it fun too.

Definitely not essential for deer.

Not having a go mate Its my idea of fun as well

[Norton]

S'all good.

Wasn't being defensive