Thermal/ NV IDENTFICATION. ACCIDENTS

[Die Judicii]

I think a thermal is a little different in that at night - you really can not guarantee your target. Your shooting at a heat sign not a fully identifiable target.

Well Tassie I must say what you state is really whether or not the shooter is doing the right or wrong thing, and also to what quality the equipment is.

The way I operate,, I study the terrain and memorize all the trees, stumps, boulders etc in full daylight,,,,, and then set up in the same vantage point at night and reaquaint myself.
But most importantly I do NOT shoot at a mere "heat signature" and I believe that anyone who does so,,, needs to have their license revoked permanently.

My unit will pick up a human size heat signature at 1.6 kilometers,,,,, but not with detail enough to confidently ascertain exactly what it is.
It's great to pick up on something way out there (not that you can shoot at that distance) but at least you can track it if it is getting closer,,, until it is at a range whereby you can distinguish without doubt exactly what it is, ie: hands/arms/legs and anything else you could require.

Then and only then do I shoot,, with all that including the background information absolutely known.

[Ferrisweil]

I think a lot of people have this misconception that with thermal, you are ONLY looking at the heat signature of your target, and everything else is a blur, like in Predator for example.
That couldn’t be further from reality and in actual fact “thermal” scopes and monocles give you an amazing view of the entire landscape and vegeatation, including the background out to 1km.
Let me please state, that I’m NOT trying to argue that thermal is THE be all and end all, and that using torchlight sucks, but if you’ve got decent thermal, then you can shoot just as confidently as you can during the daytime with respect to what’s in your background.
I’ve tried looking through some of my vids to catch a freeze picture. In the picture below the pigs are at approx 50m, the first clump of trees at 100m and the background trees at 190m-ish. Imagine that clarity 360 degrees and out to 1km and you get an idea of how well you can see your surroundings at night.

[TassieTiger]

The thermal unit I had the pleasure of using did not offer up the quality of picture as above - not even close...

[Ferrisweil]

These pigs are close to 200m

[Die Judicii]

These pigs are close to 200m

Alas, although I'm extremely happy with the quality and end results of my thermal,,,,, that is one thing I don't have, is video capability.
But I am working on that possibility.

[Ferrisweil]

Wish I could show you videos on here. I’ve put some on YouTube.

Here’s one of them

https://youtu.be/7ETBm7woC0k

[Stix]

Sometimes if I see a spotlight in the distance, I’ll shine my Olight in the air just so they know someone is there.

This is the way to go...!!...

Safe practice & what i do as well...ill do it a few times too, especially if the light appears close...& you'll often see a light thrown back over the horizon a good few times & think "gees those clowns must be blind surely by now they'd have seen if there's a rabbit there"...lol...but infact they could be just signalling back- -but the reality is we dont know that for sure...

Funnily enough it doesnt help when you come accross the cowboy idiots who are out poaching for some reason...ive done that before & it didnt stop the clowns lobbing what i think were 22 CF rounds over my head, completely oblivious to my red filtered 240 blitz frantically waving over the top of the mallee scrub they were shooting in to...
They had no idea i was there until i was within 50 yds of them with the driver not being able to see out his windscreen because of my red light...

Thankfully those times are very few & far between...

As another point...im amazed at the quality of those pics/clips ferris...

Knowing a property is key to safety, whether you use light or thermal....having an awareness about you that enables you not have tunnel vision is key...!!

So many people hold the centre of the light/the spot, 50 yds in fromt of the car (or less...!!... ) & what ever is in that spot is all they see...
By holding the light up so out to (depending on the lay of the land) 200 yds is in the centre of the spot is the way to go...this will allow you to see the reflection of eyes out many hundreds of yards & you will still easily see fox/cat eyes anywhere from immediately infront of the car out to the hotspot of the spotty...& this naturally makes you lift your eyes so you actually have a significantly wider field of view (horizontally) as well...

Learning to see outside the "tunnel" of a spotlight will not only keep your senses wired all night through to dawn & bag you more game, but also teach you to keep an eye on the sihlouette of the line of scrub that borders the paddock or boundary of the property you shoot...

I dont shoot out in the centre of Qld, but i do get right out into the guts between Melb & Adel, & no matter how dark a night it is, i can always see the sihlouette of the mallee scrub out in the distance--& that can be kilometres away...!!

I think how im used to a spotlight & my way of having a very wide field of view is why i think it will take me some getting used to using a thermal, when & if i ever get own one...
If i need to look at my mobile to get my location while out in a paddock, i almost feel like im locked in a box for the minute after i close the screen down because i cant see a dam thing barely even in the headlights let alone out to the horizon....i imagine a thermal is like that... ...but its something id be willing to try & get used too...

Sorry...dont mean to throw the subject off thermal...i just thought this may be in the realms of the subject matter with talking about safe back-stops & lack of being able to see them...

[TassieTiger]

All very prudent points Stix for sure - in Tas, we aren’t allowed to let a spotlights beam cross a road that might be used by someone else or words to that affect, so again - rules and regs are moving ppl (cowboys included) to NV and thermals.

I’m amazed at the clarity of Ferris and Blr’s thermals. I paid no real attention to the rifle I used about 4 years ago now but it was blurry and pixelated and well...a bit poo really. It wasn’t new even 4 years ago and if you bumped it, the picture would change lol. But Looking at brands mentioned in this thread - they aren’t bargain bottom units either...I’ll be keen to see what spectra get in soon.

[Ferrisweil]

Thanks Tassie. Keep in mind that looking when through them it’s even clearer again...
If you’re ever in Brisbane I’d be happy to give a demo.

[Blr243]

Yes Ferris. I’m in bris. Catch up post covid sounds good

[Blr243]

First thermal monocular I bought roughly 3000/3300 dollars many years ago pretty useless , I keep it as a back up on my trips but never needed it so far. I prefer more modern more expensive stuff so that I can function effectively .....wheat is being planted right now ....chick peas are being planted too. I’m hoping when my work runs out that restrictions are eased and I will b allowed to hunt these crops ..... the pigs just can’t get a belly full all night plain sailing it’s not fair .....out there I’m free and part of the night.

[Ferrisweil]

Yup, wheat going in at the blocks I shoot as well. Always found the chick pea to crap for bringing in the ferals. It’s good for a few weeks from seed but once it gets to a certain stage it’s too acidic and nothing will chew on it.

[Blr243]

I’m glad you meantioned the acidity , I was unaware but I thought they dug them up immediately and during sewing . So I will chat to the people planting .... I really only want to head out if the pigs are hitting the crops I don’t want to be looking for pigs in the bush it’s ridiculously dense bordering impossible And I’m nervous about them finding the wheat attractive In The early stages ......I would dearly love to see my place plant sorghum ..... I can see the dozens of pigs swimming across irrigation channels , and walking across broken glass to get amongst ripe sorghum .... I’ve only done a bit of sorghum hunting with dogs and I have hunted sorghum stubble with a bow

[Die Judicii]

I’m glad you meantioned the acidity , I was unaware but I thought they dug them up immediately and during sewing . So I will chat to the people planting .... I really only want to head out if the pigs are hitting the crops I don’t want to be looking for pigs in the bush it’s ridiculously dense bordering impossible And I’m nervous about them finding the wheat attractive In The early stages ......I would dearly love to see my place plant sorghum ..... I can see the dozens of pigs swimming across irrigation channels , and walking across broken glass to get amongst ripe sorghum .... I’ve only done a bit of sorghum hunting with dogs and I have hunted sorghum stubble with a bow

Yup, when the sorghum crops are ripe, I see so many piggies migrating down out of the place I shoot to get it.
Just after dark its a mass exodus,,,, and the same in reverse just before dawn.
The main crops are approx 5 klms off in the distance.
They must be able to smell it I reckon,,, and it wont be long now before it all starts again.

I've still yet to get one of the really big buggers with the .375 H+H Mag.

[Blr243]

DJ. Did I see you mention you are working on how to thermal video ?

[Ferrisweil]

Last week I was on a block with about 5000 acres of sorghum. Crawling with pigs and it just come to head. Another month until it’s harvested... Giddyup!!
Cannot wait until the stubble is on!!
It was like midnight and a switch was flicked on...
Every lap I did and there’d be more pigs out there.
Neighboring property just about to plant wheat. It’s just getting better. Not sure who gets more excited about the sorghum? Me or the pigs!! Haha
Yeah, as for that chick pea; property owner reckons the agronomist that comes out, has to wear special boots as he was going through a pair per season as he checked all the chick pea on his runs...

[brinny]

A long way away a pig in thermal is a rectangular blob but up close I see balls, pizzle ears snout and the little turn up on the end of the snout. Eyes glow whiter than the body because they give out more heat from the eyes , same as insides of ears , I see some hairs , tail etc If I see a big really solid blocky boar with a lot of hair on it up close on high magnification it can look like a bull but really only if I’m tired from hunting all night .... a couple of times in the middle of the night I have laid down in the dirt of the paddock for a fifteen min snooze. That’s when I feel most vulnerable from another spotlighter that might turn up and think I’m a pig. I should really wrap myself in a couple of rolls of reflective tape for those little naps

Its an interesting point that you make there Blr243....and TBH i have never given it any thought either....
Damn near everything i shoot with thermal are foxes and roos....ana pretty much 100% of these are out in open paddocks where ID is easily established....
Can imagine what it would be like in the thick s**t though...
And what if there is another hunter in the same block of bush as you and neither know each other is there....and lets face it...Thermal gear is extremely popular now and there is quite a lot of it getting around now as more and more hunters are seeing the benefits of having it.....which could in turn lead to a ****** more of mistaken ID...cows getting shot thinking they were deer....farmer Browns dogs thinking they were foxes and of course...trigger happy blokes taking a shot at someone thinking they are a roo or similar through a badly focused scope... and the list goes on...

You raise a very good and valid point....

Oh...and im a bit prone to taking those naps in the paddock myself....but may think twice about doing that now....




P

[Blr243]

If only every one in the dark hunting was old sober and level headed .......for months I have been seeing other shooting vehicles but at a distance ....and they hunting traditionally with a spotlight from a vehicle ...... they never saw me because I have no lights walking and no lights on the quad I just hoped they were ok....... when we did eventually meet up in the paddock we got on really well and went for a hunt together ......it felt so much better haveing met and talked for a good while and seeing how he operated .... if when someone opens the car door and a whole heap of empty beer cans fall on the ground you know it can only be trouble

[Grandadbushy]

Yeah BLR but it would be worse when he or they fall out of their vehicle to say G'day just jokin mate, you're right it is a pleasure to know that the other shooters are sensible , cautious and sober

[Die Judicii]

DJ. Did I see you mention you are working on how to thermal video ?

No Mate, I said that vid capability was not available on my Thermal, but it is something I have to work toward.

[brinny]

No Mate, I said that vid capability was not available on my Thermal, but it is something I have to work toward.[/quote]

What Thermal scope are you using Blr243??

[Blr243]

Brinny X p 50. Pulsar. I remember when I bought it the salesman was mentioning the ability to film the action , and I just wasn’t interested at all as if I was never going to use it . I just wanted to see in the dark and that was all that mattered .....but now it’s hugely important to me .......in the beginning I made so many mistakes , forgetting to turn the video on under pressure , forgetting to turn it off , accidentally deleting video files of good boars close up , but now all that happens a lot less ......there are people on tv saying how much they miss their gymnasium family and friends because of covid but I just miss my pigs cats and foxes ........nice red stag by the way. .....and for posting the stag pic I think we all hate you just a bit and quite jealous

[brinny]

Brinny X p 50. Pulsar. I remember when I bought it the salesman was mentioning the ability to film the action , and I just wasn’t interested at all as if I was never going to use it . I just wanted to see in the dark and that was all that mattered .....but now it’s hugely important to me .......in the beginning I made so many mistakes , forgetting to turn the video on under pressure , forgetting to turn it off , accidentally deleting video files of good boars close up , but now all that happens a lot less ......there are people on tv saying how much they miss their gymnasium family and friends because of covid but I just miss my pigs cats and foxes ........nice red stag by the way. .....and for posting the stag pic I think we all hate you just a bit and quite jealous

Xp50s are pretty easy to navigate around with the recorder....same as the Xq50s ....Remembering to turn it on is the problem ....Its great to be able to record the action thats for sure....
The GSCI scope i have now is optional to have the recorder fitted....I got mine fitted when i ordered it but doesnt have sound...and they dont fit them with a mic no matter what the series....
It is something i miss badly....I have an external recorder that i fitted to the Apex XD75 i had, i can fit which has sound but its a pain in the arse as there are leads and the recorder hanging off the side etc....
Im waiting with interest to see what the new Trail series is like....The Trail 2....The chassis is made out of different material and from what i hear that has fixed the poi issues....
Yeah...was a nice stag but i took the pic down for that reason....not many getting out this year due to this lockdown so had second thoughts about putting the pic up....See what others get first....

[Die Judicii]

I forgot to mention what mine is.
It is the FXQ 50 (the clip on version)

The beauty of this one is that it is quick and easy to attach, to different scopes.
Especially so seeing as I have the exact same scopes on all the rifles that I use at night, so I can pick and choose differing rifles/calibers within seconds.

One thing that I really dislike when it comes to sales staff and the manufacturers is that,,,, things that customers (especially 1st timers) either don't know or don't think to ask are just skimmed over or not addressed at all.
That then sometimes becomes a sour point further down the track AFTER the customer has spent his hard earned $$$$$

The manufacturers are very cunning in the words they choose when advertising their wares.
So that they are not actually telling porky pies,,,,, but the devil is certainly in the detail, or lack thereof.

One instance in particular is that they state that this unit will pick up a human/deer sized animal at 1.6 klms,,,,,,,,,
This without doubt is true,
But what they DON"T say is that,, at that distance it is just a furry blob of white or black heat signature,,,, and it is not till the range is diminished to much less than 1.6 klms before details such as arms, legs, tail, head shape etc become visible.

To a 1st timer making a purchase this is VERY misleading without thorough explanation,,,,,, and because the price tag is up there,, the assumption is often made that the 1.6 klms is gospel truth in every sense.

[Ferrisweil]

Agreed Die. Biggest prob purchasing a thermal is you can rarely test it at night. You really need to know someone who can tell you/show you how it is...

[TassieTiger]

I wonder if there is still room for these thermals to improve - I mean clearly, they are bloody good - are they at their limit?
Thanks for the offer FW - I’ve got a few mates who have old units but nothing like yours and as you say, looking out a shop window at 9.00am just isn’t the same.
Actually - your offer made me wonder a little...on another forum I was on, we’d have a annual or once every two year even where ppl from all over the country would bunk down and meet for a night of frivolity, showcasing, testing...and lies. Good times.

[brinny]

Agreed Die. Biggest prob purchasing a thermal is you can rarely test it at night. You really need to know someone who can tell you/show you how it is...

That is a downside alright....
I can remember when i bought my first thermal...It was a Pulsar Apex XD75....and together with a battery pack and CVR-640 Yukon recorder...it was $8,400...
I was doing a fair bit of sweating spending that much on a product that i knew absolutally nothing about, nor did i know anyone that had one to get any advice from.......
I was totally reliant on the dealers recommendations on what would suit my needs....
Thankfully the dealer was as honest as the day is long and the scope was perfect and suited what i was doing well.....
I often put it out there when i got queries about the thermals that people could come out to my place and check it out for themselves and basically try before they buy....But very few took the offer up....
I do think as time goes by, technology will only get better and the quality of the scope will likewise get better....
I went from the XD75 to the XQ50 Trail....The difference was huge....downside was that the XQ50s had POI issues which gave a lot of us heaps of grief....But im sure that will get sorted sooner or later...Im now running a GSCI thermal scope....
You just have to look at the way mobile phones were back when they came out to what they are now.....HUGE difference.....Im sure it will be the same with the scopes...

[Die Judicii]

I wonder if there is still room for these thermals to improve - I mean clearly, they are bloody good - are they at their limit?
Thanks for the offer FW - I’ve got a few mates who have old units but nothing like yours and as you say, looking out a shop window at 9.00am just isn’t the same.
Actually - your offer made me wonder a little...on another forum I was on, we’d have a annual or once every two year even where ppl from all over the country would bunk down and meet for a night of frivolity, showcasing, testing...and lies. Good times.

Dunno whether or not you already know or have been told Tasssie,,,, but you can't see through glass with a thermal.

However when they first started coming out,,,, I did hear that a dirty old man had gone out and bought one for his pleasure, and was right royally p!ssed off when he found out that you can't see through glass.

[Grandadbushy]

Brinny Is this POI problem in all thermals or just the Q50 and is it still a problem and can it be fixed? I've started saving for one and wonder which one to get when and if I get enough it'd be good for what I do , I've used one a couple of times that belongs to the farmer but it's not like having your own and not sure he set it up right I haven't shot anything with one as yet.

[Ferrisweil]

The POI probs have existed mostly in the Pulsar range of products, HOWEVER, most thermals, regardless of brand, have the odd issues.
Speaking to mates in the USA, most of the POI problems seem to come from big swings in temperatures but who can say of that’s the reason. The new range of Pulsars are made from Magnesium apparently and they’ve fixed any issues. I have the XP50LRF and haven’t had any issues yet...
Tassie, your question re: can they improve? Another good mate of mine works for Remington in the UK and over there torches are fast becoming obsolete as NV and thermal takes over. Apparently the next thing to hit will be units that use BOTH NV and thermal. It’s already hitting the market but is mostly targeted at SF and CQ combat.... That mate of mine has seen it and reckons it’s amazing but not applicable to hunting purposes yet.
As for a meet up of lads on here.... Hmmm where are most people? Seems somewhere between Brisbane and sydney would be good.... Now if only I had a block around Tenterfield to shoot on. Oh wait, I do lol