Hunting in populated areas

Game hunting and large prey. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Boar, pigs etc., large prey, culling, hunting large feral animals.

Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by mickb » 12 Jul 2022, 2:28 pm

Boundry Rider wrote:
mickb wrote:I bought a crossbow for similar work, though property sizes 20-40 acres. Worked okay but the hideous expense of crossbow bolts eventually shelved it. I think I was running about $15-18 a shot, and ground shooting it meant after the bolts passed through the animal they would skid off into the scrub not to be found.


For 5 acres use a feeder to bring them in and a shoot a subsonic centerfire from a treestand.
No one will be the wiser.

And don't attempt to gain advice from law enforcement, you'll be shut down quicker than a cellar door.


You migjht have mixed me up with the OP mate, I dont shoot on 5 acre blocks. I do run subsonic centrefires though over piles of bananas to pull pigs in at night. Mostly was 22 mag previously, then 357 levers with 38 special bullets. Now looking to use 44 mag with 44 special brass and bullets designed for the specials low speed. The 200 grain gold dots open up as low as 800fps to about 65cal. Noise is more of a whoosh-pop( to my ears anyway). Will see how they go.
Last edited by mickb on 12 Jul 2022, 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by mickb » 12 Jul 2022, 2:35 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Are you trying to make a useful contribution to the thread?
If what I offered is not correct please correct me - with law rather than opinion.


Yes I am making a useful contribution as I am telling people you are making up laws that don't exist.

I can't offer proof of a laws you made up in your head because they don't exist. How about you prove you claim.


I didnt see much of a contribution, just someone being rude. Bladeracer seems to do a pretty good job around here sourcing info for folks. You on the other hand seem to pick arguments to draw folks into semantics.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by mickb » 12 Jul 2022, 2:39 pm

animalpest wrote:The interesting thing to me is that I find shooters/hunters dont think outside the box much. The OP said he was "asked to to get rid a few deer on private land NSW, however, its a small 4-5 acre block...". So shooting is not the only option, although to many shooters, its their only known method.



Well shooting is the most fun method , its the first thing we consider :)
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Boundry Rider » 12 Jul 2022, 3:32 pm

mickb wrote:You migjht have mixed me up with the OP mate


All good was referring to the OP seeking advice.
I saw you mentioned 20-30 acres :drinks:
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 5:00 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Are you trying to make a useful contribution to the thread?
If what I offered is not correct please correct me - with law rather than opinion.


Yes I am making a useful contribution as I am telling people you are making up laws that don't exist.

I can't offer proof of a laws you made up in your head because they don't exist. How about you prove you claim.


Which laws are you claiming I made up?
Give me something to work with at least.
The only law I mentioned is that as long as the property is rural then you are allowed to shoot on it - that is law. There is zero legislation about the size of said property.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 5:04 pm

Read the original post again, "blasting away" was entirely made up by yourself, and helps nobody.

I have no idea what the relevance is for the second part you've quoted here - NSW has no legislated cartridge requirements for deer, so any chambering is legal. It is entirely up to the shooter whether he prefers to use .223 or .308.

You clearly understand the size of the property, how many problem deer do you figure there are likely to be in such a small area? Once he drops a few it's very likely the rest will head for somewhere safer - job done.


Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Fionn wrote:Blasting away with a centrefire on 5 acres with neighbouring houses is just crazy from both a safety and noise issue.

5 Acres is a only about 200m x 100m block of land, its tiny.


I didn't see anybody talking about "blasting away", but there is no legislated minimum property size for shooting on, if it's zoned to allow shooting, and you can safely do so, then you can lawfully do so.


The OP did, or did you miss that?

Kurnal wrote:They are small fallow so I could use the .223 instead of the .308. That would a lot quieter and might help, but would prefer the larger calibre
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 5:12 pm

animalpest wrote:The interesting thing to me is that I find shooters/hunters dont think outside the box much. The OP said he was "asked to to get rid a few deer on private land NSW, however, its a small 4-5 acre block...". So shooting is not the only option, although to many shooters, its their only known method.

What is the problem (deer) and what are ALL the options? Define the risks of each and therein lies your answer to the question posed.

Shooting is just one potential option. Consider the actual legalities, animal welfare risks, reducing noise etc

Recently I did a shoot on 500 animals in a metropolitan area, with residential areas and houses sometimes within 200m of where we were shooting and all shots within 1km. I was using full power loads with a .223. While the property was much bigger than 5 acres, the most important thing was where the bullet may end up. Safety issues are paramount closely followed by animal welfare of shot animals. And yep, the Police received calls.

Keep it quiet, kill the animals cleanly and keep it within the property.


Most people work with the equipment and the skills they have, so for shooters, shooting is generally going to be the primary option, they already have the equipment and the skill set, and it is very likely the most humane method. Sometimes shooting is not an option though, due to laws (not in this case) or external issues, like safety, noise, cost, and keeping friendly neighbours. It is not useful to suggest a bow for example if the person dealing with the problem doesn't own a bow and doesn't have the required skill to use it effectively in the situation. Trapping may be an option, but can get expensive in money and man-hours, and may not be as humane as simply shooting them without the trauma involved in trapping.

Shooting is very, very effective in most cases - it just requires the shooter to understand the situation so it can be done safely.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 5:44 pm

bladeracer wrote:Which laws are you claiming I made up?
Give me something to work with at least.
The only law I mentioned is that as long as the property is rural then you are allowed to shoot on it - that is law. There is zero legislation about the size of said property.


This part
bladeracer wrote: Is the block zoned "rural"? If not then no shooting.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 5:55 pm

bladeracer wrote:Read the original post again, "blasting away" was entirely made up by yourself, and helps nobody.

I have no idea what the relevance is for the second part you've quoted here - NSW has no legislated cartridge requirements for deer, so any chambering is legal. It is entirely up to the shooter whether he prefers to use .223 or .308.

You clearly understand the size of the property, how many problem deer do you figure there are likely to be in such a small area? Once he drops a few it's very likely the rest will head for somewhere safer - job done.


I agree I said blasting away with a centrefire, what's your point?

What do you think "blasting away" with centrefire means? and why do you think it relates to helping or intending to help anybody.

The second point was in reference to your comment about about no one talking about "blasting away" with a centrefire.

As per normal you seem to have confused a number of things.

Yes I understand the property size, I don't understand the relevance of number of deer on it but I do agree with animalpest here

animalpest wrote:The interesting thing to me is that I find shooters/hunters dont think outside the box much. The OP said he was "asked to to get rid a few deer on private land NSW, however, its a small 4-5 acre block...". So shooting is not the only option, although to many shooters, its their only known method.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 6:12 pm

Fionn wrote:This part
bladeracer wrote: Is the block zoned "rural"? If not then no shooting.


Which part of that?
If the block is zoned rural then it is legal to shoot on - that is the law. There are outside influences that may make it impossible to actually shoot on the property, but those are different laws and regulations.
If it is not zoned rural than you can't shoot on it without special permits.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 6:21 pm

This was the discussion we had last year.
https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=15842
Lots of people offered lots of information from various sources, including rumour, supposition, assumption and fabricated information.
The only information I could actually substantiate in law is that property in NSW must be zoned as "rural" for shooting, that's all.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 6:35 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Fionn wrote:This part
bladeracer wrote: Is the block zoned "rural"? If not then no shooting.


Which part of that?
If the block is zoned rural then it is legal to shoot on - that is the law. There are outside influences that may make it impossible to actually shoot on the property, but those are different laws and regulations.
If it is not zoned rural than you can't shoot on it without special permits.


1. NSW doesn't have blocks zoned rural in the planning codes.
2. NSW doesn't have any laws that prohibit shooting on blocks not rural zoned.

Is it clear enough now.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 6:36 pm

If you admit you fabricated the "blasting away" why did you claim that the OP had stated it?
I think "blasting away" infers shooting in a less than formal manor for no specific result - this situation is likely, at most, a handful of shots at a small number of deer to either kill them or convince them to go elsewhere. I don't see how any sensible person, outside of Gun Control Oz could consider it to be "blasting away". Am I to believe that you consider shooting centrefire rifles to define your own usage of the term, "blasting away"?


Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Read the original post again, "blasting away" was entirely made up by yourself, and helps nobody.

I have no idea what the relevance is for the second part you've quoted here - NSW has no legislated cartridge requirements for deer, so any chambering is legal. It is entirely up to the shooter whether he prefers to use .223 or .308.

You clearly understand the size of the property, how many problem deer do you figure there are likely to be in such a small area? Once he drops a few it's very likely the rest will head for somewhere safer - job done.


I agree I said blasting away with a centrefire, what's your point?

What do you think "blasting away" with centrefire means? and why do you think it relates to helping or intending to help anybody.

The second point was in reference to your comment about about no one talking about "blasting away" with a centrefire.

As per normal you seem to have confused a number of things.

Yes I understand the property size, I don't understand the relevance of number of deer on it but I do agree with animalpest here

animalpest wrote:The interesting thing to me is that I find shooters/hunters dont think outside the box much. The OP said he was "asked to to get rid a few deer on private land NSW, however, its a small 4-5 acre block...". So shooting is not the only option, although to many shooters, its their only known method.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 6:38 pm

Fionn wrote:1. NSW doesn't have blocks zoned rural in the planning codes.
2. NSW doesn't have any laws that prohibit shooting on blocks not rural zoned.

Is it clear enough now.


Yes they do, read the other thread. Rural blocks include all zones classed as "RU".
Permission to shoot on private property _specifically_ requires such property to be classed as "rural".
To shoot on blocks not zoned Rural requires special permits.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 6:53 pm

bladeracer wrote:If you admit you fabricated the "blasting away" why did you claim that the OP had stated it?


You are confused again, I never claimed the OP had stated it.

I stated it and didn't attribute or implied it any one but myself. So I have no idea what you are going on about :unknown:

bladeracer wrote:Am I to believe that you consider shooting centrefire rifles to define your own usage of the term, "blasting away"?


Yes you can believe that, but it can apply to using any firearm that uses a wave of highly compressed air spreading outwards from an explosion.

BTW that is the definition of "blast" an the "ing" is the product or result of an action or process i.e. "Blast"
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 7:06 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Fionn wrote:1. NSW doesn't have blocks zoned rural in the planning codes.
2. NSW doesn't have any laws that prohibit shooting on blocks not rural zoned.

Is it clear enough now.


Yes they do, read the other thread. Rural blocks include all zones classed as "RU".
Permission to shoot on private property _specifically_ requires such property to be classed as "rural".
To shoot on blocks not zoned Rural requires special permits.


Yes but they are not zoned rural as you stated, when talking about laws you need to use precise language, not ambiguous terms.

Obtaining permission to shoot on private property has got nothing to do with what you can do on a property.

As you still seem very confused by it, lets try another approach. Please provide links or evidence that you need special permits to shoot on land not zoned rural*

(*using your term as not to confuse you further)

add to that many gun ranges are located in areas not zoned rural * using your logic, every person who shoots on these ranges needs this so called "special permits" so should be easy for you to evidence your claims.

Can you see the flaws in your logic yet? :unknown:
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by mickb » 12 Jul 2022, 7:09 pm

Just wondering, does this site have an ignore function?
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 7:12 pm

They are indeed rural zoned, RU1, etc are the rural zones.
Having permission to shoot has nothing to do with what you can do on a property????
The law doesn't allow a property owner to give permission to a shooter unless their property is zoned rural. You cannot be given lawful permission by the landowner if their property is not rural.

The special permissions are obtained by the club, you agree to comply with their requirements when you shoot on their club property. If you go on their property outside of their requirements then you cannot shoot there, and are very likely trespassing if you have a firearm.


Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Fionn wrote:1. NSW doesn't have blocks zoned rural in the planning codes.
2. NSW doesn't have any laws that prohibit shooting on blocks not rural zoned.

Is it clear enough now.


Yes they do, read the other thread. Rural blocks include all zones classed as "RU".
Permission to shoot on private property _specifically_ requires such property to be classed as "rural".
To shoot on blocks not zoned Rural requires special permits.


Yes but they are not zoned rural as you stated, when talking about laws you need to use precise language, not ambiguous terms.

Obtaining permission to shoot on private property has got nothing to do with what you can do on a property.

As you still seem very confused by it, lets try another approach. Please provide links or evidence that you need special permits to shoot on land not zoned rural*

(*using your term as not to confuse you further)

add to that many gun ranges are located in areas not zoned rural * using your logic, every person who shoots on these ranges needs this so called "special permits" so should be easy for you to evidence your claims.

Can you see the flaws in your logic yet? :unknown:
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 7:13 pm

mickb wrote:Just wondering, does this site have an ignore function?


Yep, I think that's why we don't see as many members jumping on Fionn when he goes on his rants.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 7:14 pm

mickb wrote:Just wondering, does this site have an ignore function?


Yep, just add Bladeracer as a foe under your account section if you feel the need. :lol:
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 7:15 pm

Keep in mind that the OP has already confirmed that he can indeed legally shoot on this property...
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by mickb » 12 Jul 2022, 7:24 pm

bladeracer wrote:
mickb wrote:Just wondering, does this site have an ignore function?


Yep, I think that's why we don't see as many members jumping on Fionn when he goes on his rants.


Thanks, He's on mine too. Bye ""Fionn"
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 7:28 pm

bladeracer wrote:They are indeed rural zoned, RU1, etc are the rural zones.
Having permission to shoot has nothing to do with what you can do on a property????
The law doesn't allow a property owner to give permission to a shooter unless their property is zoned rural. You cannot be given lawful permission by the landowner if their property is not rural.


Once again where is this law stated as such? you can rant on and on about it, but I have asked repeatedly for you to post the actual law, but you haven't been able to.

So post the law, prove me wrong like your trying so hard to do.


bladeracer wrote:The special permissions are obtained by the club, you agree to comply with their requirements when you shoot on their club property. If you go on their property outside of their requirements then you cannot shoot there, and are very likely trespassing if you have a firearm.


We will just park this for the moment as you are clearly struggling with the other issue, and I don't want to confuse you more then you are already. Happy to come back to it once the first issue is sorted.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 7:32 pm

bladeracer wrote:Keep in mind that the OP has already confirmed that he can indeed legally shoot on this property...


You are the one that thinks unless its zoned rural* he can't. I have always said they can, but I don't think its safe or wise as a general rule.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 7:57 pm

You are our resident legal scholar, you will have no problem finding the laws.
If you can't find them, read the other thread I posted as I posted all the laws I could find regarding this issue.

I have no interest in proving you wrong as you haven't posted anything I need to prove wrong.
The OP wants to shoot some deer on a rural property in NSW.
I stated that he can legally do so.
Others claimed he would not be legally allowed to do so, including your own _opinion_, that he "is just crazy".
He has already confirmed that he can legally do so.
You want to turn it into some legal semantics debate as you so often do. I lost interest in these childish discussions of yours some years ago. While there is hope of dragging something useful out of such discussion I am willing to accommodate you, but I think we are well past that already here.
If you can offer some law that prohibits him from shooting on this property please post a link to it.


Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:They are indeed rural zoned, RU1, etc are the rural zones.
Having permission to shoot has nothing to do with what you can do on a property????
The law doesn't allow a property owner to give permission to a shooter unless their property is zoned rural. You cannot be given lawful permission by the landowner if their property is not rural.


Once again where is this law stated as such? you can rant on and on about it, but I have asked repeatedly for you to post the actual law, but you haven't been able to.

So post the law, prove me wrong like your trying so hard to do.


bladeracer wrote:The special permissions are obtained by the club, you agree to comply with their requirements when you shoot on their club property. If you go on their property outside of their requirements then you cannot shoot there, and are very likely trespassing if you have a firearm.


We will just park this for the moment as you are clearly struggling with the other issue, and I don't want to confuse you more then you are already. Happy to come back to it once the first issue is sorted.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 8:00 pm

Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Keep in mind that the OP has already confirmed that he can indeed legally shoot on this property...


You are the one that thinks unless its zoned rural* he can't. I have always said they can, but I don't think its safe or wise as a general rule.


You are confusing yourself with your own double negatives.
This was my statement:
"If it is {zoned rural} then you can shoot there - as long as it's safe to do so"
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bigpete » 12 Jul 2022, 8:15 pm

mickb wrote:Just wondering, does this site have an ignore function?

Yes it does
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Fionn » 12 Jul 2022, 8:18 pm

bladeracer wrote:You are our resident legal scholar, you will have no problem finding the laws.
If you can't find them, read the other thread I posted as I posted all the laws I could find regarding this issue.


I read the other post, there is nothing posted with any such laws. Just you spouting nonsense about these supposed laws.

So I will asked again, post the laws that back up your claim or admit you are wrong.

I can't post any such laws as they don't exist.

bladeracer wrote:I have no interest in proving you wrong as you haven't posted anything I need to prove wrong.


So you can't back up anything you have claimed with actual laws or facts when pushed to do so.

Not surprising really.

bladeracer wrote:The OP wants to shoot some deer on a rural property in NSW.
I stated that he can legally do so.
Others claimed he would not be legally allowed to do so, including your own _opinion_, that he "is just crazy".


Yes I said he was crazy to do so from a safety and noised issue, I never said its illegal.

It was my opinion which I am entitled to have on the matter.



bladeracer wrote:He has already confirmed that he can legally do so.
You want to turn it into some legal semantics debate as you so often do. I lost interest in these childish discussions of yours some years ago. While there is hope of dragging something useful out of such discussion I am willing to accommodate you, but I think we are well past that already here.
If you can offer some law that prohibits him from shooting on this property please post a link to it.


I have never said its illegal, you are the one claiming its only legal in rural zone* which I have asked you to repeatedly prove.

But you won't.
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by Blr243 » 12 Jul 2022, 8:30 pm

If KURNAL prints out the second Page of this topic And hangs it on the fence , all the deer will shudder at the unpleasant nature and likely jump the fence never to be seen again .... problem solved without a single shot being fired
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Re: Hunting in populated areas

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2022, 8:33 pm

I don't consider your opinion to be worth the effort, but if it might help the OP, and others looking for the same information, I will post something of a summary.

First, let me address your refuting that any property in NSW is zoned rural:
"State Environmental Planning Policy (Rural Lands) 2008 defines the RU1 to RU6 zones. Zone RU5 is Rural Residential, but is still classed as rural property as far as I can determine. RU2 is rural but cannot be devloped in any way.
https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/whole/html/inforce/current/epi-2008-0128"

"The five main zones are:
R1 Zoning NSW – General Residential
R2 Zoning NSW – Low-Density Residential
R3 Zoning NSW – Medium Density Residential
R4 Zoning NSW – High-Density Residential
R5 Zoning NSW – Large Lot Residential

then you have RU types
(a) Zone RU1 Primary Production,
(b) Zone RU2 Rural Landscape,
(c) Zone RU3 Forestry,
(d) Zone RU4 Rural Small Holdings,
(e) Zone RU6 Transition,
(f) Zone E2 Environmental Conservation,
(g) Zone E3 Environmental Management.
(h) Zone E4 Environmental Living"

"Genuine Reason for hunting on private land only requires "rural property" - https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/firearms/licences/pages/recreational_hunting_vermin_control_genuine_reason"
Genuine Reason NSW.JPG
Genuine Reason NSW.JPG (79.22 KiB) Viewed 5399 times


As for the non-rural property are you stating that I am wrong and that it is actually legal to shoot on property in NSW that is not zoned rural? I have already stated that special permissions can be gained to shoot on properties that are not zoned rural, and gave the example of shooting ranges. Other situations are re-enactments, theatrical and film production, pest control activities, and probably some other things. These all require special permissions to allow them.




Fionn wrote:
bladeracer wrote:You are our resident legal scholar, you will have no problem finding the laws.
If you can't find them, read the other thread I posted as I posted all the laws I could find regarding this issue.


I read the other post, there is nothing posted with any such laws. Just you spouting nonsense about these supposed laws.

So I will asked again, post the laws that back up your claim or admit you are wrong.

I can't post any such laws as they don't exist.

bladeracer wrote:I have no interest in proving you wrong as you haven't posted anything I need to prove wrong.


So you can't back up anything you have claimed with actual laws or facts when pushed to do so.

Not surprising really.

bladeracer wrote:The OP wants to shoot some deer on a rural property in NSW.
I stated that he can legally do so.
Others claimed he would not be legally allowed to do so, including your own _opinion_, that he "is just crazy".


Yes I said he was crazy to do so from a safety and noised issue, I never said its illegal.

It was my opinion which I am entitled to have on the matter.



bladeracer wrote:He has already confirmed that he can legally do so.
You want to turn it into some legal semantics debate as you so often do. I lost interest in these childish discussions of yours some years ago. While there is hope of dragging something useful out of such discussion I am willing to accommodate you, but I think we are well past that already here.
If you can offer some law that prohibits him from shooting on this property please post a link to it.


I have never said its illegal, you are the one claiming its only legal in rural zone* which I have asked you to repeatedly prove.

But you won't.
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