7.62x39 for Sambar

[bigrich]

i don't know why this topic is still going . sambar are big . they have a reputation for taking heavy loads and keep on trucking . use a 308/30-06 with a 165gn as a minimum , and leave the low powered assault rifle round in a ak47 .

[bladeracer]

i don't know why this topic is still going . sambar are big . they have a reputation for taking heavy loads and keep on trucking . use a 308/30-06 with a 165gn as a minimum , and leave the low powered assault rifle round in a ak47 .

[bladeracer]

i don't know why this topic is still going . sambar are big . they have a reputation for taking heavy loads and keep on trucking . use a 308/30-06 with a 165gn as a minimum , and leave the low powered assault rifle round in a ak47 .

Anybody heard of people taking sambar with 300BLK?

Nick Harvey fielded a question about using it for goats, pigs and fallow five years ago. Like most people he likens it to the .30-30 ballistically, being "just as suitable" for hunting. I guess his statement of it being "...a little shy as a hunting round" means he considers it on the light side for bigger stuff. He suggested the standard 123gn loads to be "adequate" for fallow to 100yd or so.

Screenshot 2022-11-27 042041.jpg (170.32 KiB) Viewed 1963 times

https://sportingshooter.com.au/ask-uncle-nick/how-good-is-the-7-62x39mm/

I also noticed Mossberg and Arsenal Inc offered rifles with 24" barrels, and CZ a 22" barrel, which adds around 100fps over 16" AK47 velocities with factory ammo, handloading could increase that further.

This guy does some decent development testing with it in a bolt-action, including trying factory Tula 154gn hunting ammo (which was horrible).
https://rifleshooter.com/2017/04/reloading-the-7-62x39-mm-russian-load-development-with-125-and-150-gr-bullets/

This thread discusses pushing the cartridge harder, without giving me any real result on how much improvement might be made.
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/anybody-loading-7-62x39-p-for-bolt-actions.3940512/

Vihtavuori list a 57gn Lapua bullet that would be neat to try in the .303's I reckon
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=85

[Oldbloke]

Bigger animals generally require bigger stuff. Simple. These sorts of questions come up every now and again. Seems to me there is a race to go down in energy, as if it's a bigger dik thing.

[bladeracer]

Bigger animals generally require bigger stuff. Simple. These sorts of questions come up every now and again. Seems to me there is a race to go down in energy, as if it's a bigger dik thing.

I'm not sure what drives people to want to go with "lighter" options but it does appear to be a thing.
I follow American groups and it seems to me too many of them seem to believe the only "correct" way to take deer is to deliberately wound them to ensure a good blood trail so you can find the animal when it later dies. People are constantly discussing how good the blood trail is from various bullet designs with virtually no regard to simply taking a shot that kills the animal on the spot. It makes no sense to me. If somebody does aim to drop the animal instantly with a head or neck shot they are labelled "unethical".

I'm quite sure the cartridge is more than capable of doing the job, in the right hands, under the right circumstances, but I wouldn't recommend it to a new hunter if they have something more effective they can borrow. The new 255gn Sub-X bullet does intrigue me though, hope we see those here one day.

Now that the last calf has dropped I'm hoping I can down into the bush for a couple days next week to see what's around the area.

[Oldbloke]

"I'm quite sure the cartridge is more than capable of doing the job, in the right hands, under the right circumstances"

But the perfect stationary, head, neck shot within range has to be presented. Good luck with that.

[bladeracer]

"I'm quite sure the cartridge is more than capable of doing the job, in the right hands, under the right circumstances"

But the perfect stationary, head, neck shot within range has to be presented. Good luck with that.

I don't know that the shot has to be that specific, No1Mk3 posted that the cartridge has worked just fine for him.

Screenshot 2022-11-27 144356.jpg (78.94 KiB) Viewed 1937 times

I'm sure there must be lots of people that took sambar with their SKS's and SKK's back in the day as well, here as well as in Asia.
With modern copper bullets in hunting rifles it's probably even more capable than it used to be.

[Fionn]

I'm not sure what drives people to want to go with "lighter" options but it does appear to be a thing.

I choose to go with "lighter" options for the challenge or to me the more pure hunting aspect. Its not overly hard to blast away animals from a distance or take any shot that presents it self. I have killed enough animals that these days that I am more interested in the actual challenge of the hunt, the skill involved in stalking, choosing an animal for my purpose and waiting for the perfect shot.

It doesn't take much skill to shoot a deer 100+ metres away.

[Fionn]

With modern copper bullets in hunting rifles it's probably even more capable than it used to be.

Its capable, the issue is the person using it may not be.

A man needs to know his limitations.

[bladeracer]

I'm not sure what drives people to want to go with "lighter" options but it does appear to be a thing.

I choose to go with "lighter" options for the challenge or to me the more pure hunting aspect. Its not overly hard to blast away animals from a distance or take any shot that presents it self. I have killed enough animals that these days that I am more interested in the actual challenge of the hunt, the skill involved in stalking, choosing an animal for my purpose and waiting for the perfect shot.

It doesn't take much skill to shoot a deer 100+ metres away.

That is a good point. I go out there looking for them but I'm not in any great rush to kill them. I'm happy just learning their terrain, their habits, and watching the animals themselves. A couple days spent sneaking around in the bush trying to get close to them, even without firing a shot is still a bloody nice time in my book. We have a busy day tomorrow but I'm trying to make it possible to get out on Tuesday perhaps, and spend a night or two exploring an area I haven't been in before. I have no idea what if anything might be in there, and the landowner hasn't ventured into that part of his property for many years either (like us he has large areas fenced off to keep his stock out of the bush). It's 300 acres of fairly dense bush with lots of area where you can't see the sky, and pretty steep, falling at a rate of 40m altitude every 100m. Total fall of the area I want to investigate is 350m over 1500m so there are some easier bits (that I hope are navigable). I mainly want to see if there are current deer wallows in there before they start to dry up. If I lug a rifle around for several days without firing it I'll still come out smiling. If I happen upon a shot I can't pass up it'll just be a bonus. Trying to carry anything out of there will be tough.

[bladeracer]

This bloke seems to consider the 7.62x39mm okay for sambar, perhaps he saw this thread and decided to test it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYRzi-kTKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8IeRPW1nmc

[Oldbloke]

Umm, sooo. I don't see 550lb on the ground.
The arguments is silly.
You could shoot a sambar with a 22mag.
If,
You are extremely close.
Can shoot it in the eye.
Are 100% certain of hitting the eye.

BUT.

Would you select a 22mag to go sambar hunting, no way.

Same applies to the 7.62x39.
Yes can be done. Is it a smart choice, nope.
Unless your happy to pass up a lot of opportunities, waiting for that 1 chance.

[bladeracer]

Hopefully he'll be honest about his results, but he's bought it for his son to hunt sambar, and he seems pretty experienced.

Umm, sooo. I don't see 550lb on the ground.
The arguments is silly.
You could shoot a sambar with a 22mag.
If,
You are extremely close.
Can shoot it in the eye.
Are 100% certain of hitting the eye.

BUT.

Would you select a 22mag to go sambar hunting, no way.

Same applies to the 7.62x39.
Yes can be done. Is it a smart choice, nope.
Unless your happy to pass up a lot of opportunities, waiting for that 1 chance.

[Oldbloke]

Mmmm. Happy to use a scope that is not reliable. I question that.

[animalpest]

I have dropped a buffalo with a .22 magnum. But I certainly would never consider it an adequate cartridge for that purpose.

There are far better choices

[mchughcb]

This bloke seems to consider the 7.62x39mm okay for sambar, perhaps he saw this thread and decided to test it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYRzi-kTKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8IeRPW1nmc

Awesome shooting off the bonnet of the 4WD. You know this guy is a serious hunter.

[bigpete]

This bloke seems to consider the 7.62x39mm okay for sambar, perhaps he saw this thread and decided to test it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYRzi-kTKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8IeRPW1nmc

Well that was several minutes of my life I won't get back lol

[bladeracer]

This bloke seems to consider the 7.62x39mm okay for sambar, perhaps he saw this thread and decided to test it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYRzi-kTKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8IeRPW1nmc

Well that was several minutes of my life I won't get back lol

Yes, it's not great video, but better than I could do I reckon
He said the hunting vid will be on Patreon but I hope he posts it on Youtube as well.

[mchughcb]

The great thing about posting free hunting videos on YouTube is the amount of free criticism and advice from people reporting to be hunters with zero content.

[bladeracer]

The great thing about posting free hunting videos on YouTube is the amount of free criticism and advice from people reporting to be hunters with zero content.

How is that different from people that pay to criticize videos?
I don't think I've seen any particularly nasty comments on your videos?
Sometimes when I post a vid I immediately get comments from spammers that I have to delete, that's annoying. And sometimes Youtube decides to make one of my vids a "short", I haven't worked out how to fix that either.

I'm waiting on a Tactacam FTS so I hope to be able to post some hunting vids myself soon.

[bladeracer]

Awesome shooting off the bonnet of the 4WD. You know this guy is a serious hunter.

I check my zero the same way sometimes, under field conditions from a field position, not off a bench. Last week I had to climb on the bullbar and bonnet to shoot back over the roof of the ute to get enough height to see my target over the grass - whatever works

[mchughcb]

The great thing about posting free hunting videos on YouTube is the amount of free criticism and advice from people reporting to be hunters with zero content.

How is that different from people that pay to criticize videos?
I don't think I've seen any particularly nasty comments on your videos?
Sometimes when I post a vid I immediately get comments from spammers that I have to delete, that's annoying. And sometimes Youtube decides to make one of my vids a "short", I haven't worked out how to fix that either.

I'm waiting on a Tactacam FTS so I hope to be able to post some hunting vids myself soon.

Well if you are paying for it, criticize away. I get hundreds but the trigger words are all setup to go to the sin bin so not many slip through and you won't see them, only I do.

[bladeracer]

Well if you are paying for it, criticize away. I get hundreds but the trigger words are all setup to go to the sin bin so not many slip through and you won't see them, only I do.

Wow, I'm surprised to hear that. I don't know anything about setting up trigger words, but I get very few responses on vids (they're basically just for myself) so I just read them and if they're junk I delete them.

[phill55phill]

May as well throw rocks at them it is designed to would humans not to kill large animals

[Border_Bloke]

I recently had a guy on a Facebook forum ask if his 300bk would be good for sambar with subsonic ammo & I thought of this thread. I told him that was a very bad idea.

1st problem is that when you get lower than about 2500fps in a .30 caliber you don't get hydrostatic shock and it takes longer for a kill.
2nd problem is that the slower the bullet is going the less it will expand.
3rd problem is that Sambar are usually found in thick bush (where I am anyway) and if you don't drop them quickly they can run a long way.

In my opinion a 30/30 is marginal for Sambar - OK at less than 50m with a good shot, but far from ideal. 7.62x39 & 300bk are slower than a 30/30, especially with 150gn & heavier bullets.

Probably OK for fallow, and yes they are definitely capable of killing a sambar, but it will probably take a while to drop.

[bladeracer]

I recently had a guy on a Facebook forum ask if his 300bk would be good for sambar with subsonic ammo & I thought of this thread. I told him that was a very bad idea.

1st problem is that when you get lower than about 2500fps in a .30 caliber you don't get hydrostatic shock and it takes longer for a kill.
2nd problem is that the slower the bullet is going the less it will expand.
3rd problem is that Sambar are usually found in thick bush (where I am anyway) and if you don't drop them quickly they can run a long way.

In my opinion a 30/30 is marginal for Sambar - OK at less than 50m with a good shot, but far from ideal. 7.62x39 & 300bk are slower than a 30/30, especially with 150gn & heavier bullets.

Probably OK for fallow, and yes they are definitely capable of killing a sambar, but it will probably take a while to drop.

Pint #1 is incorrect, you get hydrostatic effects at much lower velocities than that, probably want a terminal velocity around 1500fps though I would think.
Point #2 comes down to poor bullet choice, there are bullets that expand very well below subsonic velocities - use a bullet that suits the situation.
Point #3 again comes down to poor shot placement. If you know the chambering or bullet you're using is marginal on boiler room shots don't take boiler room shots.
Copper bullets are a good option to increase your velocities as you generally don't need as much mass as a jacketed lead bullet. Expansion is reliable and controlled and they tend to stay together to maximise penetration.

I do agree that these are fairly marginal cartridges, so not great choices for the inexperienced shooter. Not all sambar are huge though. Just keep your brain engaged and don't take marginal shots. I really hope we see the BLK 190gn Sub-X and the 7.62x39mm 255gn Sub-X bullets come available for handloading.

[animalpest]

I recently had a guy on a Facebook forum ask if his 300bk would be good for sambar with subsonic ammo & I thought of this thread. I told him that was a very bad idea.

1st problem is that when you get lower than about 2500fps in a .30 caliber you don't get hydrostatic shock and it takes longer for a kill.
2nd problem is that the slower the bullet is going the less it will expand.
3rd problem is that Sambar are usually found in thick bush (where I am anyway) and if you don't drop them quickly they can run a long way.

In my opinion a 30/30 is marginal for Sambar - OK at less than 50m with a good shot, but far from ideal. 7.62x39 & 300bk are slower than a 30/30, especially with 150gn & heavier bullets.

Probably OK for fallow, and yes they are definitely capable of killing a sambar, but it will probably take a while to drop.

Pint #1 is incorrect, you get hydrostatic effects at much lower velocities than that, probably want a terminal velocity around 1500fps though I would think.
Point #2 comes down to poor bullet choice, there are bullets that expand very well below subsonic velocities - use a bullet that suits the situation.
Point #3 again comes down to poor shot placement. If you know the chambering or bullet you're using is marginal on boiler room shots don't take boiler room shots.
Copper bullets are a good option to increase your velocities as you generally don't need as much mass as a jacketed lead bullet. Expansion is reliable and controlled and they tend to stay together to maximise penetration.

I do agree that these are fairly marginal cartridges, so not great choices for the inexperienced shooter. Not all sambar are huge though. Just keep your brain engaged and don't take marginal shots. I really hope we see the BLK 190gn Sub-X and the 7.62x39mm 255gn Sub-X bullets come available for handloading.

For medium calibres, hydrostatic shock drops off significantly below 2600 fps. For medium bores its about 2200 fps and for big bores, it stops below about 1800 fps.

[bigrich]

For medium calibres, hydrostatic shock drops off significantly below 2600 fps. For medium bores its about 2200 fps and for big bores, it stops below about 1800 fps.

that's the general info on nathan foster's terminal ballistics research website . there's no doubt that large game can be killed with a small bullet in the right place . but i've yet to see game just stand there and give someone a perfect shot . if i was going south for sambar a 270 with a 130 barnes would be my minimum ,
30-06 with a 180gn projectile would be my preference . use the right tool for the job

[animalpest]

The question would be - If there is a sambar standing there which isn't the perfect shot, would you shoot it anyway?

[bigrich]

The question would be - If there is a sambar standing there which isn't the perfect shot, would you shoot it anyway?

absolutely .my point is if i was in sambar territory i would be carrying something more sustantial than a 7.62x39 . more room for error when you don't have a good shot angle with greater energy and penetration with a more suitable caliber