7.62x39 for Sambar

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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by animalpest » 18 Feb 2023, 9:02 pm

Fionn wrote:
animalpest wrote:No claims of any evidence that hydrostatic static shock has killed any person. I am sceptical of its effects (if any) on people or animals.

The effect of hydraulic shock is clear. I don't need to publish and have peer reviewed a paper to demonstrate that.


Velocity and energy. Jeez, I thought I made that clear before.

The effect of Hydraulic shock can be seen as water hammer in plumbing, so yes it's clear and exists. What is not clear is that it has not been proven that a gunshot wounds produce it or if it does that it has any effect on a body such as causing death or injury.

Correlation is not causation.

If a gunshot wound can cause it, why doesn't a Lithotripsy?
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 18 Feb 2023, 9:28 pm

animalpest wrote:Velocity and energy. Jeez, I thought I made that clear before.


What causes hydraulic shock is momentum, which is mass and velocity of an object. I think we both understand this, but what you haven't explained is how it causes damage to a body from a gunshot wound.

As a hint the term you should be using and looking for is cavitation, not hydraulic or hydrostatic shock.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by animalpest » 18 Feb 2023, 11:54 pm

I don't need a "hint".
Nor do I need the idea that it is just momentum. That is plain wrong.

If you had read what I said before, it is about velocity and energy. Let's take a 375 H&H, with 4500 ft/lb of energy. I shoot a goat through the chest/lungs. Massive energy for that animal and very large "momentum". Open the goat and behold, a bit of bruising after the goat walked 50m before falling over.

Now I use my 243 with only one third the energy and a piddly amount of momentum by comparison. Open it up and the whole 2 lungs are soup with bruising through the whole rib cage.

Hint - I have actually necropsied both!

As you said, momentum is weight X velocity. Energy is slewed towards velocity as it is squared.

Momentum has nothing to do with hydraulic shock.

Basic ballistics science 101.

Let's take 2 rifles- a .44 mag and a .243. Similar muzzle energies, but one has a 240 gr slug and the other a 87gr. One has more momentum and will penetrative a big boar, the other may just p!ss him off. Momentum. But the big slowish slug is not likely to have much hydraulic shock. Too slow

Hint - I have necropsied both
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by bigrich » 19 Feb 2023, 9:24 am

animalpest wrote:I don't need a "hint".
Nor do I need the idea that it is just momentum. That is plain wrong.

If you had read what I said before, it is about velocity and energy. Let's take a 375 H&H, with 4500 ft/lb of energy. I shoot a goat through the chest/lungs. Massive energy for that animal and very large "momentum". Open the goat and behold, a bit of bruising after the goat walked 50m before falling over.

Now I use my 243 with only one third the energy and a piddly amount of momentum by comparison. Open it up and the whole 2 lungs are soup with bruising through the whole rib cage.

Hint - I have actually necropsied both!

As you said, momentum is weight X velocity. Energy is slewed towards velocity as it is squared.

Momentum has nothing to do with hydraulic shock.

Basic ballistics science 101.

Let's take 2 rifles- a .44 mag and a .243. Similar muzzle energies, but one has a 240 gr slug and the other a 87gr. One has more momentum and will penetrative a big boar, the other may just p!ss him off. Momentum. But the big slowish slug is not likely to have much hydraulic shock. Too slow

Hint - I have necropsied both


like you AP , i've seen the effects in the field . trying to get through to fionn is pointless , as she or he , doesn't sound like they've witnessed and or experienced the effect of different calibers and projectiles on game . this conversation is just going to go round and round with ever increasing scientific and technical terms being thrown about . seems to me a lot of the people in this modern world are being told what to think , rather than learning to think . you don't need to be in a uni lab to see physics in action . there's a lot of people on this forum with practical real world experience , but unfortunately because they don't have degrees and letters after their name , they mustn't know much :sarcasm: , fionn knows better :P
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 19 Feb 2023, 10:51 am

animalpest wrote:I don't need a "hint".
Nor do I need the idea that it is just momentum. That is plain wrong.


The issue is that your using the term hydraulic shock incorrectly or don't understand what it is.

Hydraulic shock is a pressure surge or wave caused when a fluid in motion is forced to stop or change direction suddenly; a momentum change. The only other usage of the term is when its used incorrectly (it seems only by hunters BTW) as an interchangeable word for Hydrostatic shock.

animalpest wrote:If you had read what I said before, it is about velocity and energy. Let's take a 375 H&H, with 4500 ft/lb of energy. I shoot a goat through the chest/lungs. Massive energy for that animal and very large "momentum". Open the goat and behold, a bit of bruising after the goat walked 50m before falling over.

Now I use my 243 with only one third the energy and a piddly amount of momentum by comparison. Open it up and the whole 2 lungs are soup with bruising through the whole rib cage.

Hint - I have actually necropsied both!

As you said, momentum is weight X velocity. Energy is slewed towards velocity as it is squared.


First off I said momentum is mass and velocity not weight X velocity as you said, these aren't the same thing in case you don't know.

Momentum is not kinetic energy, if you shoot a rifle it recoils with the same momentum as the bullet, but doesn't have the same kinetic energy. Kinetic energy depends on the velocity of the object squared (as you said).

What causes the differences in wounds from a gunshot are shape, size, mass, velocity of the penetrating object and the tissue type involved.

Gunshot wounds are high-velocity/low-mass injuries, they cause massive cavitation induced by a high-velocity bullet encountering the fluid in the body. It creates a massive internal "explosion" as the kinetic energy of the bullet is transferred to the surrounding tissue. This crushes and stretches tissue in a wide circular pattern around the impact site, creating trauma far in excess of what the entrance wound would suggest.

This is what you describe from your example with a goat and different velocity rounds.

While this may sound like what is described as Hydraulic/Hydrostatic shock its not.

Hydraulic/Hydrostatic shock theory claims it produces a pressure wave that causes "remote neural damage", "subtle damage in neural tissues" and "rapid incapacitating effects" in living targets.

So when doing our necropsies, you should be looking for remote damage to brain and spinal cord if you want to show Hydrostatic shock is real.

animalpest wrote:Momentum has nothing to do with hydraulic shock.

Basic ballistics science 101.


Yes it does, its even involved with hydrostatic shock. i.e. A shock wave has momentum.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by animalpest » 19 Feb 2023, 11:01 am

Nope.
As I said, you can have massive amounts of momentum with little hydraulic shock.

Yes I have looked remote nervous systems for damage.

Umm, I well understand this and it's effects. It's my profession.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Feb 2023, 12:21 pm

Forget it gents. End the conversation. As BR said
"trying to get through to fionn is pointless". Most likely because he has a closed mind. Or is just being a serial pest.

In perhaps a year or so fionn will come back asking about how to track wounded deer in heavy cover and recommend a cartridge for Sambar. He might listen then.

Oh, there might actually be a reason why ive never spoken to a sambar deer hunter that uses a 7.62x39 or 30.30 when hunting them.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 19 Feb 2023, 1:28 pm

animalpest wrote:Nope.
As I said, you can have massive amounts of momentum with little hydraulic shock.

Yes I have looked remote nervous systems for damage.

Umm, I well understand this and it's effects. It's my profession.


You clearly don't even understand what hydraulic shock is as you keep using and applying the term incorrectly. Its a borrowed term applied incorrectly by hunters.

You don't seem to understand what you described in your last post about the goat isn't even hydrostatic shock, even people who a proponent of the hydrostatic shock theory know this.

If your going to argue the point at least understand the terms you are using.

You still haven't explained how a bullet can cause hydrostatic shock but Lithotripsy doesn't given Lithotripsy produces far move shock waves then a bullet could.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Feb 2023, 2:17 pm

Definitions/meanings:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_shock

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8& ... on+meaning

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrost ... %20targets.

And if I shoot a deer in the lungs with a 30.06, last time I looked there wasn't just a 30mm wound channel. The lungs were mush.

The word cavitation has nothing to do with this. It's about air bubbles, air locks, propellers, plumbing etc.

Just a reminder. The human body is about 80% water. In fact if you ignore bones its even higher. So the term "hydraulic shock" does not seem particularly out of place. However perhaps the term "flesh shock" might be more precise.

"Lithotripsy" :lol: https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8& ... sy+meaning


What the hell has an ultrasound got to do with a lump of lead and copper moving at 2800fps. What sort of stupid comparison is that?
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Feb 2023, 2:29 pm

In anycase. Common sense dictates that in general bigger animals require bigger cartridges.

I mean, the armies of this world don't issue 22lr because it's better than a 308.

There would clearly more "flesh shock" from a 30.06 than a 7.62x39. ;)

Edit: I might write a 100 page doctorate or thesis about "flesh shock" one day and become famous. :)
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 19 Feb 2023, 4:08 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Definitions/meanings:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_shock

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8& ... on+meaning

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrost ... %20targets.

And if I shoot a deer in the lungs with a 30.06, last time I looked there wasn't just a 30mm wound channel. The lungs were mush.

The word cavitation has nothing to do with this. It's about air bubbles, air locks, propellers, plumbing etc.

Just a reminder. The human body is about 80% water. In fact if you ignore bones its even higher. So the term "hydraulic shock" does not seem particularly out of place. However perhaps the term "flesh shock" might be more precise.

"Lithotripsy" :lol: https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8& ... sy+meaning


What the hell has an ultrasound got to do with a lump of lead and copper moving at 2800fps. What sort of stupid comparison is that?


As you seemed to missed this from before

Hydraulic/Hydrostatic shock theory claims it produces a pressure wave that causes "remote neural damage", "subtle damage in neural tissues" and "rapid incapacitating effects" in living targets.

To be clear as you are missing it, This is remote/away from the impact site. Its not getting shot in the lungs and them getting turned to mush as you put it.

This "remote neural damage", "subtle damage in neural tissues" and "rapid incapacitating effects" is Hydrostatic and what I am saying hasn't been proven.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Feb 2023, 4:42 pm

Fionn wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Definitions/meanings:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_shock

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8& ... on+meaning

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrost ... %20targets.

And if I shoot a deer in the lungs with a 30.06, last time I looked there wasn't just a 30mm wound channel. The lungs were mush.

The word cavitation has nothing to do with this. It's about air bubbles, air locks, propellers, plumbing etc.

Just a reminder. The human body is about 80% water. In fact if you ignore bones its even higher. So the term "hydraulic shock" does not seem particularly out of place. However perhaps the term "flesh shock" might be more precise.

"Lithotripsy" :lol: https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8& ... sy+meaning


What the hell has an ultrasound got to do with a lump of lead and copper moving at 2800fps. What sort of stupid comparison is that?


As you seemed to missed this from before

shock theory claims it produces a pressure wave that causes "remote neural damage", "subtle damage in neural tissues" and "rapid incapacitating effects" in living targets.

To be clear as you are missing it, This is remote/away from the impact site. Its not getting shot in the lungs and them getting turned to mush as you put it.

This "remote neural damage", "subtle damage in neural tissues" and "rapid incapacitating effects" is Hydrostatic and what I am saying hasn't been proven.


I didnt miss anything. Actually you seem to have misunderstand what I posted. Or didn't bother to read it. Instead you again attempted to put words into my mouth. (Not good policing mate) A habit of yours ive noticed.

I posted the definitions.

And said. "And if I shoot a deer in the lungs with a 30.06, last time I looked there wasn't just a 30mm wound channel. The lungs were mush." That was all.

I didn't claim that hydrostatic shock does anything. I said nothing about remote CNS damage.

However the evidence is over welming. If lungs are mush, and not just a hole the diameter of the bullet then something is causing it. And since the lungs are mostly water (abt 85%) then my guess is that hydraulics has something to do with it.

You can read all about it in my thesis.

Then you will understand why your the only person I've heard of that intentionally goes out and uses a 7.62x39 to hunt sambar instead of a significantly larger cartridge.

BTW good luck with finding the huge blood trail.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 19 Feb 2023, 5:32 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Fionn wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:Definitions/meanings:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_shock

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8& ... on+meaning

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrost ... %20targets.

And if I shoot a deer in the lungs with a 30.06, last time I looked there wasn't just a 30mm wound channel. The lungs were mush.

The word cavitation has nothing to do with this. It's about air bubbles, air locks, propellers, plumbing etc.

Just a reminder. The human body is about 80% water. In fact if you ignore bones its even higher. So the term "hydraulic shock" does not seem particularly out of place. However perhaps the term "flesh shock" might be more precise.

"Lithotripsy" :lol: https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8& ... sy+meaning


What the hell has an ultrasound got to do with a lump of lead and copper moving at 2800fps. What sort of stupid comparison is that?


As you seemed to missed this from before

shock theory claims it produces a pressure wave that causes "remote neural damage", "subtle damage in neural tissues" and "rapid incapacitating effects" in living targets.

To be clear as you are missing it, This is remote/away from the impact site. Its not getting shot in the lungs and them getting turned to mush as you put it.

This "remote neural damage", "subtle damage in neural tissues" and "rapid incapacitating effects" is Hydrostatic and what I am saying hasn't been proven.


I didnt miss anything. Actually you seem to have misunderstand what I posted. Or didn't bother to read it. Instead you again attempted to put words into my mouth. (Not good policing mate) A habit of yours ive noticed.

I posted the definitions.

And said. "And if I shoot a deer in the lungs with a 30.06, last time I looked there wasn't just a 30mm wound channel. The lungs were mush." That was all.

I didn't claim that hydrostatic shock does anything. I said nothing about remote CNS damage.

However the evidence is over welming. If lungs are mush, and not just a hole the diameter of the bullet then something is causing it. And since the lungs are mostly water (abt 85%) then my guess is that hydraulics has something to do with it.

You can read all about it in my thesis.

Then you will understand why your the only person I've heard of that intentionally goes out and uses a 7.62x39 to hunt sambar instead of a significantly larger cartridge.

BTW good luck with finding the huge blood trail.


You're right, you didn't claim hydrostatic shock did anything, you just linked the 2 definitions for it at the start of your post randomly, so you could say circumstantial evidence :lol:

You also posted a sort of definition of cavitation and are under the impression that it means.

Oldbloke wrote:The word cavitation has nothing to do with this. It's about air bubbles, air locks, propellers, plumbing etc.


So for your thesis, I suggest you don't rely on this definition or cite any articles on wound cavitation such as this one.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4596205/

As to what is causing the lungs to turn to mush, I have ready explained that in a pervious post.

Oh and by the way I am not intentionally going out hunting sambar with a 7.62x39, I don't even own one, but hey don't let facts get in the way.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Blr243 » 19 Feb 2023, 5:45 pm

This topic is just shocking
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 19 Feb 2023, 5:48 pm

But its not having any real effect.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Feb 2023, 6:25 pm

Fionn wrote:I am planning on using my .357 magnum on my next Sambar hunt.


My mistake. Not 7.62x39 but .357 mag.

That's bordering on criminal animal cruelty.

Resized_tempFileForShare_20230219-190721_206994292783413.jpeg
Resized_tempFileForShare_20230219-190721_206994292783413.jpeg (282.07 KiB) Viewed 2333 times


Good luck with the blood trail.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by bigrich » 19 Feb 2023, 7:27 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: oh good lord :roll: trying to reason with fionn is like a scene out of a "monty python" movie :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 19 Feb 2023, 7:58 pm

bigrich wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: oh good lord :roll: trying to reason with fionn is like a scene out of a "monty python" movie :lol: :lol: :lol:


This one? :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9PY_3E3h2c
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by bigrich » 19 Feb 2023, 8:25 pm

Fionn wrote:
bigrich wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: oh good lord :roll: trying to reason with fionn is like a scene out of a "monty python" movie :lol: :lol: :lol:


This one? :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9PY_3E3h2c


very appropriate :lol:

i say "NEE" to you , and we no longer demand a shrubbery ! now we want , A SAMBAR ! a nice pretty one , with lots of neat little 7.62x39 holes in it ..... :P
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by animalpest » 19 Feb 2023, 8:48 pm

Funny how someone here is lumping hydrostatic and hydraulic shock as the same thing. They are not.

Whether it is the correct term is somewhat irrelevant if everyone is using the same language and understand what it means.

I have never said that hydrostatic shock, ie the remote damage to the nerves, actually occurs. But hey, don't let twisting the truth stop you

What I have said is that hydraulic shock, or whatever you want to call it, does exist and can be clearly evident from high velocity gunshot wounds.

Having a cavity is not cavitation. Sometimes trying to be smart can lead you to get caught out. And as I am sure you know, that can make your whole credibility a question.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 19 Feb 2023, 9:25 pm

animalpest wrote:Funny how someone here is lumping hydrostatic and hydraulic shock as the same thing. They are not.


I have been saying this all along, hunter/firearm owners have using the term hydraulic shock interchangeably with hydrostatic. They are not the same thing.

animalpest wrote:Whether it is the correct term is somewhat irrelevant if everyone is using the same language and understand what it means.

I have never said that hydrostatic shock, ie the remote damage to the nerves, actually occurs. But hey, don't let twisting the truth stop you

What I have said is that hydraulic shock, or whatever you want to call it, does exist and can be clearly evident from high velocity gunshot wounds.


Its completely relevant that the correct term is used. You used the term hydrostatic shock and when I pointed out it was an unproven theory, you changed to the term hydraulic shock, when I pointed out that is still the incorrect term and its simply a shockwave you continue using it.

Now you claim it doesn't matter what its called. :unknown:

How about just calling it by its correct term, which is a shock wave. its not that hard is it.

animalpest wrote:Having a cavity is not cavitation. Sometimes trying to be smart can lead you to get caught out. And as I am sure you know, that can make your whole credibility a question.


Are you referring to me here or someone else? as I have never said this.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Feb 2023, 9:42 pm

Fionn wrote:
animalpest wrote:Funny how someone here is lumping hydrostatic and hydraulic shock as the same thing. They are not.


I have been saying this all along, hunter/firearm owners have using the term hydraulic shock interchangeably with hydrostatic. They are not the same thing.

animalpest wrote:Whether it is the correct term is somewhat irrelevant if everyone is using the same language and understand what it means.

I have never said that hydrostatic shock, ie the remote damage to the nerves, actually occurs. But hey, don't let twisting the truth stop you

What I have said is that hydraulic shock, or whatever you want to call it, does exist and can be clearly evident from high velocity gunshot wounds.


Its completely relevant that the correct term is used. You used the term hydrostatic shock and when I pointed out it was an unproven theory, you changed to the term hydraulic shock, when I pointed out that is still the incorrect term and its simply a shockwave you continue using it.

Now you claim it doesn't matter what its called. :unknown:

How about just calling it by its correct term, which is a shock wave. its not that hard is it.

animalpest wrote:Having a cavity is not cavitation. Sometimes trying to be smart can lead you to get caught out. And as I am sure you know, that can make your whole credibility a question.


Are you referring to me here or someone else? as I have never said this.


Your wrong again. It's "flesh shock". Ive explained this earlier today. Not very bright are you? I thought cops had to have at least average IQ. Obviously the bar is much lower.

You will better understand after reading my 200 page thesis.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 19 Feb 2023, 10:14 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Your wrong again. It's "flesh shock". Ive explained this earlier today. Not very bright are you? I thought cops had to have at least average IQ. Obviously the bar is much lower.

You will better understand after reading my 200 page thesis.


:clap: Well done on making up another nonsense term and trying to pass it off. :thumbsup:
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by bigrich » 20 Feb 2023, 4:35 am

Look fionn , there’s a few fellas on here that have a seen a lot of the effects of projectiles on animals. Trying to argue over minor technical points or scientific terminology seems pretty petty. Nathan foster wrote about aspects of these effects relating to the ballistics of some caliber I’ve owned and used was proved true in my own personal experience. I doubt you’ve had any real world experience relating to the topic your so passionately arguing over.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Fionn » 20 Feb 2023, 6:34 am

bigrich wrote:Look fionn , there’s a few fellas on here that have a seen a lot of the effects of projectiles on animals. Trying to argue over minor technical points or scientific terminology seems pretty petty. Nathan foster wrote about aspects of these effects relating to the ballistics of some caliber I’ve owned and used was proved true in my own personal experience. I doubt you’ve had any real world experience relating to the topic your so passionately arguing over.


So your argument comes down to "just because I say so" and the unproven opinion of a former bouncer. :clap:
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Feb 2023, 8:17 am

Fionn wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
Your wrong again. It's "flesh shock". Ive explained this earlier today. Not very bright are you? I thought cops had to have at least average IQ. Obviously the bar is much lower.

You will better understand after reading my 200 page thesis.


:clap: Well done on making up another nonsense term and trying to pass it off. :thumbsup:


Well, actually it's highly descriptive of what happens. You yourself have said its a shock wave. It's in flesh is it not?

Now, go back to the local station and argue with the drug addicts and alcoholics.
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Oldbloke
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by bigrich » 20 Feb 2023, 11:52 am

Fionn wrote:
bigrich wrote:Look fionn , there’s a few fellas on here that have a seen a lot of the effects of projectiles on animals. Trying to argue over minor technical points or scientific terminology seems pretty petty. Nathan foster wrote about aspects of these effects relating to the ballistics of some caliber I’ve owned and used was proved true in my own personal experience. I doubt you’ve had any real world experience relating to the topic your so passionately arguing over.


So your argument comes down to "just because I say so" and the unproven opinion of a former bouncer. :clap:


:lol: No , what he wrote about, I saw first hand. Your really good at ignoring what’s written in someone else’s post if it goes against your argument.
You haven’t responded to my barbs about not having any real world experience on the aspect of projectiles performance on game either. Others have tried to explain it to you, but you respond with nit picking over scientific terms and what not. Keyboard warrior :roll:
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Blr243 » 20 Feb 2023, 2:13 pm

How long have sambar been in Australia?
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by Border_Bloke » 20 Feb 2023, 3:22 pm

Geez I comment on a post and come back a few days later to find an empty can & worms all over the floor.

Yes I was using Nathan Fosters definition.

The point I was trying to get across is this:
If you hit a Sambar with a 150gn 308 doing 2700 fps at 50m it makes a reasonably big hole.
If you hit it with a 150gn 30/30 at 2000 fps at 50m it makes a smaller hole.
I've never played with a 7.62x39, but it looks like 150gn bullets from it would be around or a tad slower than a 30/30.

The 300 Blackout is going much slower, about 1800 fps. Much smaller means a smaller hole, deer goes much further, more tracking to do and less blood trail.

I'm not saying its not possible, I'm just saying that there are much better caliber choices out there.
Unless it was exceptional circumstances, I wouldn't shoot a Sambar with a 300 blackout.

And I probably wouldn't shoot one with a 7.62x39 or 30/30 unless it was very close with a really good shot on a stationary animal.
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Re: 7.62x39 for Sambar

Post by bigpete » 20 Feb 2023, 4:24 pm

Blr243 wrote:How long have sambar been in Australia?


Around 160 years
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