Oldbloke wrote:On another forum
on_one_wheel wrote:Oldbloke wrote:On another forum
Traitor
Oldbloke wrote:On another forum there is a discussion regarding using a 7.62x39 for Sambar. A hunter is promoting the use of the 7.62x39 for Sambar. (150gr)
A 30.30 150gr does about 2300fps. This was the minimum for many years but new rules now allow smaller stuff in Victoria.
7.62x39 150gr does about 2100fps.
NO expert here but I would consider it a bit too light. OK for fallow, perhaps at shortish distance Reds.
But Sambar are bigger again and generally stick to the thick s**t. What do people think?
on_one_wheel wrote:Oldbloke wrote:On another forum
Traitor
northdude wrote:anyone that started out hunting with an air rifle will know its all about shot placement and getting within effective range of what your using. stick to that and I cant see a problem. Hell the cullers used to use 222s over here on reds for long enough.
northdude wrote:anyone that started out hunting with an air rifle will know its all about shot placement and getting within effective range of what your using. stick to that and I cant see a problem. Hell the cullers used to use 222s over here on reds for long enough.
Oldbloke wrote:No expert but:
Just googling and found 7.62x39 has about
1,439 ft⋅lbf at the muzzle.
My mild reloads for 30.06 (180gr) loads have 2400 ft lb at the muzzle and still have 1600 ft lb at 200 yards.
Seems to me it would only be reliable on larger species up to about 100 yards, if that.
yoshie wrote:I shot one with 30-06 (150g SST) and was surprised how far she ran. I'd say too small, but then they get shot with 22s out of car windows...
bladeracer wrote:The difference between the two cartridges is really only a range difference as the choice of bullets, ie their mechanical ability, is virtually identical.
Hornady offer the 150gn Interlock soft-point bullet in .308" and .312" for the Euro-calibres.
At 400m the 2800fps .308 is down to 1750fps, which is the speed the 2200fps 7.62x39mm makes at 185m. So if you consider the .308Win to be effective at 400m, you would have to consider the 7.62x39mm to be equally effective out to at least 185m as the result on the target with the same bullet is going to be virtually identical. If you only consider the .308 to be effective out to 300m (1980fps) then the 7.62x39mm must be effective to 85m (1980fps) at least.
The 7.62x39mm is likely to be hampered by shorter barrels and probably restricted cartridge lengths (standard 7.62x39mm is .055" shorter than .223) which restricts velocity potential. If you have a longer barrel, say 22" like most .308 hunting rifles would have, and you can seat to the 2.800" length of the standard short-action, I think the differences would be significantly reduced. I wish I owned a short-action 7.62x39m to do an actual comparison.
This mob using factory ammo only found a loss of around 100fps with 123gn bullets from 24" barrels down to 16.5".
https://rifleshooter.com/2016/01/7-62x39-mm-russian-effects-of-barrel-length-on-velocity/
bigrich wrote:all good valid points and observations blade , i think however i'd just use a 30-06 with a good 165-180 bullet . with a decent bullet in the russian round (think i sent some woodleighs to someone recently ) it would improve performance . i read somewhere that ruger chambered rifles for .308 instead of .311 in one of their compact rifles , which would open up projectile choice and flexability of the russian round
bladeracer wrote:bigrich wrote:all good valid points and observations blade , i think however i'd just use a 30-06 with a good 165-180 bullet . with a decent bullet in the russian round (think i sent some woodleighs to someone recently ) it would improve performance . i read somewhere that ruger chambered rifles for .308 instead of .311 in one of their compact rifles , which would open up projectile choice and flexability of the russian round
I tend to agree with you, a heavier jacketed bullet, or a lighter copper bullet, but in 7mm-08 rather than .308. I don't think the .30-06 is a significant step up over the .308. In .284" bullets Barnes offer the TSX/TTSX from 110gn to 175gn.
Yes, I've read that the Ranch Rifle and the Mini14 had .308" bores but I've never confirmed it. That would greatly increase bullet options. If its magazine and/or chamber length is set up for standard length rounds though I think choices are going to be fairly limited. The 123gn Barnes TSX though may be a good choice as copper bullets tend to hang together better than jacketed ones so you can often step down a level or two in weight. Don't know that I'd want to use this into the boiler room of a big sambar stag but it might work just fine. The 170gn or new 255gn Sub-X subsonic might be a better bet.
bigrich wrote:with regards to the 308/30-06 , i believe when you step up to 180's the 30-06 really starts to shine . a 180 partition out of a '06 would take a sambar at most ranges and shot angles . definately room for error 180 tsx out of '06 are a good thing on scrubbers and kill the first pig and mortally wound the one behind it ! i've seen this first hand .
i had the idea for a project years ago to build a zastava 7.62x39 with a .308 barrel and explore this round . but i've had so many builds and projects over the years i'm liking simple things with off the shelf components and not waiting on gunsmiths
bladeracer wrote:bigrich wrote:with regards to the 308/30-06 , i believe when you step up to 180's the 30-06 really starts to shine . a 180 partition out of a '06 would take a sambar at most ranges and shot angles . definately room for error 180 tsx out of '06 are a good thing on scrubbers and kill the first pig and mortally wound the one behind it ! i've seen this first hand .
i had the idea for a project years ago to build a zastava 7.62x39 with a .308 barrel and explore this round . but i've had so many builds and projects over the years i'm liking simple things with off the shelf components and not waiting on gunsmiths
I think you can see some difference between the two cartridges, but it's not likely to be a significant difference. Getting up into the really heavy bullets, 200gn+, the .308's reduced case capacity does rule out some of the denser powders, unless you have a long throat and/or are happy to single load.
I did a quick Google for first-hand numbers (rather than load data) and it seems a little more than 2500fps is realistic for the 220gn SMK in a 12"-twist 20" .308, which is pretty decent, it's still doing 2000fps at 500yds. Surprisingly this was only seated to 2.820" so still runs through standard short-action mags. Numbers I found for the .30-06 are right around the same place, 2500fps but with a 220gn round nose hunting bullet. I think with handloading the .308 and .30-06 are going to be running around the same velocities with the same bullets in similar rifles. The .308 is smaller but burns more efficiently than the .30-06.
wrenchman wrote:i am not familiar with the size of the sambar deer but the 7.62x39 is used here for the white tail deer it does seem like the hard part is finding ammo that performs well my oldest son has the ruger ranch rifle and it does seem to be his problem.
we have got dies so we can load for it and are looking at what we need