Rifled chamber adapters in shotgun?

[Bunyip56]

G'Day,
New to this forum. I'm intending to give deer hunting a try this year. I have a .58 calibre muzzleloader that fires a 450 to 500 grain projectile which would make it legal in the muzzleloading category in Victoria. Another option may be rifled .357 and .44 Magnum rounds fired in a 12 gauge chamber adapters. I have these adapters that I mostly bought as a hoot but I've found them surprisingly accurate fired in my single 12 gauge with just the front bead and groove on the breech. I don't know if inserting the rifled adapters in a shotgun would have the firearm then be legally considered as a rifle. I probably should just go out and buy a centrefire rifle in a suitable deer calibre but making use of what I already have appeals to me. I've no intention of heading into the bush with something that is either unsuitable or possibly illegal.
Cheers.

[bigpete]

I think you'd better buy a centrefire

[womble]

I don't think just the front bead will be legal for deer.
Plus buy a rifle
Plus buy a scope

[Oldbloke]

I don't think just the front bead will be legal for deer.
Plus buy a rifle
Plus buy a scope

Correct. Need rifle or some other sight

[bladeracer]

G'Day,
New to this forum. I'm intending to give deer hunting a try this year. I have a .58 calibre muzzleloader that fires a 450 to 500 grain projectile which would make it legal in the muzzleloading category in Victoria. Another option may be rifled .357 and .44 Magnum rounds fired in a 12 gauge chamber adapters. I have these adapters that I mostly bought as a hoot but I've found them surprisingly accurate fired in my single 12 gauge with just the front bead and groove on the breech. I don't know if inserting the rifled adapters in a shotgun would have the firearm then be legally considered as a rifle. I probably should just go out and buy a centrefire rifle in a suitable deer calibre but making use of what I already have appeals to me. I've no intention of heading into the bush with something that is either unsuitable or possibly illegal.
Cheers.

I have the Chiappa adapters, and they're pretty good. Accuracy is en-par with what you'd expect from a handgun, but so is the velocity. I'm not aware of any legal problem with using them in Victoria, but some states require each adapter to be registered so check before crossing borders with them.

But for hunting, I wouldn't. They'd be effective on small game, but don't have the accuracy to be viable, your accurate range is so restricted anyway you might as well just use BB or buck. They're accurate enough for large game, but significantly lacking in power. If you have a shotgun anyway, use slugs. Accuracy is similar but with a lot more power. Or even better buy a rifle for medium to large game.

[bladeracer]

I don't think just the front bead will be legal for deer.
Plus buy a rifle
Plus buy a scope

Hmmm...that is an interesting point.
The clause you refer to is specifically for "smoothbore firearms", not shotguns generally. The rifled adaptor turns a smoothbore into a rifled barrel, thus are you still hunting with a smoothbore firearm if it's rifled? If you used one of the cheap non-rifled adapters then it would still be a smoothbore.

[Oldbloke]

Slugs in a 12g would perhaps be a better option with a sight.

[bladeracer]

Slugs in a 12g would perhaps be a better option with a sight.

Absolutely, even with just a bead they're decently accurate to about 50m.

[Oldbloke]

Need a sight tho

Min Deer Cartridges New.JPG (78.3 KiB) Viewed 3130 times

[mickb]

The barrel adaptors seem like a great concept but their lack of popularity speaks for itself, the fact is they often dont shoot as well as owners would hope. There are a lot of videos on youtube, particularly the yanks with owners testing them and when you look closely the guy is either not mentioning the range he is shooting at, or its measured in feet, or lastly he calls it a 'survival option' which basically means at least its better than throwing a rock, and is a way to make use of pistol ammo if its all you have left.

I have not seen one single video, and I watched a heap that showed an honest appraisal or usable groups at 50 yards. I was going to get some myself but after enough research I decided worst case if I was left only with a shotgun, I would probably be better off just running smoothbore slugs or buckshot.

[bladeracer]

The barrel adaptors seem like a great concept but their lack of popularity speaks for itself, the fact is they often dont shoot as well as owners would hope. There are a lot of videos on youtube, particularly the yanks with owners testing them and when you look closely the guy is either not mentioning the range he is shooting at, or its measured in feet, or lastly he calls it a 'survival option' which basically means at least its better than throwing a rock, and is a way to make use of pistol ammo if its all you have left.

I have not seen one single video, and I watched a heap that showed an honest appraisal or usable groups at 50 yards. I was going to get some myself but after enough research I decided worst case if I was left only with a shotgun, I would probably be better off just running smoothbore slugs or buckshot.

They are more for novelty value but the accuracy I'm seeing in them is not far from what I'd expect from handguns, despite having a longer sight radius and a cheek weld. I consider them usable in the same situations I'd use a handgun, which are not many - basically to drop an injured animal at very close range, and just for having some fun. A 16" rifled adapter would be more useful for sure. One drawback to using them in other than break-action guns is having to remove the barrel to install them, but that only takes a minute or so. I haven't tried shooting 50m groups with any of them as that seems well beyond their effective range, due to accuracy and velocity limitations of the short barrel, but at 20m they're not terrible.

To my surprise I actually do have one 50m group recorded, in .45 Colt at 808fps, 10rds into 250mm from the T1000 straight-pull with Berry's 200gn RNFP Copper-Plated. Pretty sure that will have been off the bench but no sights. Actually on the point of aim though which is helpful. No load development so it's probably possible to improve it. From memory, in the under/over, one barrel shoots 9mm close to point of aim but the second barrel shoots way off, like diagonally more than 300mm off at 50m, something like that. I don't seem to have recorded that though.

Yes, slugs are almost always going to be a better option, even reduced loads if you don't want the noise.

[mickb]

great post blade I know you are the sort of bloke to report accurately on what he owns. So about a 10 inch group at 50 yards but potentially some room for improvement if you applied sights and load development,. It gives an idea of what the owner of these things is looking at.

I would consider for dispatching animals up close they may have some use as you say. A 45 acp with a rifled adaptor inside a 24-28" shot barrel is well below subsonic and hits a lot harder than a 22.

[bigpete]

great post blade I know you are the sort of bloke to report accurately on what he owns. So about a 10 inch group at 50 yards but potentially some room for improvement if you applied sights and load development,. It gives an idea of what the owner of these things is looking at.

I would consider for dispatching animals up close they may have some use as you say. A 45 acp with a rifled adaptor inside a 24-28" shot barrel is well below subsonic and hits a lot harder than a 22.

Virtually all the slug loads I've fired through my shotguns have done far better than 10" at 50m, I even had one gun print repeatable 2-3" groups at 75m.

These barrel inserts are generally a bit of a joke. There is a couple of companies however that do make full length inserts chambered for calibres up to 45-70. Now that would actually be useful

[bladeracer]

great post blade I know you are the sort of bloke to report accurately on what he owns. So about a 10 inch group at 50 yards but potentially some room for improvement if you applied sights and load development,. It gives an idea of what the owner of these things is looking at.

I would consider for dispatching animals up close they may have some use as you say. A 45 acp with a rifled adaptor inside a 24-28" shot barrel is well below subsonic and hits a lot harder than a 22.

Virtually all the slug loads I've fired through my shotguns have done far better than 10" at 50m, I even had one gun print repeatable 2-3" groups at 75m.

These barrel inserts are generally a bit of a joke. There is a couple of companies however that do make full length inserts chambered for calibres up to 45-70. Now that would actually be useful

Agreed, I get better accuracy than that with slugs, don't think I've managed 3" groups at 75m with the Lee's but perhaps with rifle sights it might be possible. I had rifle sights on my old Bentley Model 20 pump, but slugs were expensive when I was a kid, I don't think I shot many groups with them. As I don't see any real hunting value from these adapters I haven't put in much effort to see just how accurate they might be. I would be surprised if they could shoot much better than a handgun of similar barrel length. If I could find a cheap barrel I wouldn't mind turning it down to be a full-length adapter. I do have some spare .22LR barrels which could be turned off-centre and made into adapters.

I've seen short .45-70 adapters, but don't think I've seen a rifled one, the short ones don't make much pressure so don't need to be very strong. Pretty sure I've seen .30-30 as well which I think was rifled.

[bladeracer]

great post blade I know you are the sort of bloke to report accurately on what he owns. So about a 10 inch group at 50 yards but potentially some room for improvement if you applied sights and load development,. It gives an idea of what the owner of these things is looking at.

I would consider for dispatching animals up close they may have some use as you say. A 45 acp with a rifled adaptor inside a 24-28" shot barrel is well below subsonic and hits a lot harder than a 22.

This thread has got me wondering about these things now
I've got the .45 Colt (which also does .410), .357Mag, 9mm and I think I have the .44Mag as well. Possibly some others I haven't used yet. I think I have plenty of ammo for all of them so it's just a matter of finding some time to play with them a bit more. I think .45ACP and .45 Colt are fairly similar, the ACP generally uses 230gn bullets while the Colt generally uses 250gn, but I think velocities are close, both are well subsonic.

[Bunyip56]

Thanks for the replies and feedback. I'll keep the rifled adapters for fun and buy a rifle with scope in a suitable deer calibre. 30/06 or .308? The 7mm/08 seems to get a fair amount of praise for sambar. Decisions!

[bigpete]

Get something decent like a 35 whelen

[Oldbloke]

Thanks for the replies and feedback. I'll keep the rifled adapters for fun and buy a rifle with scope in a suitable deer calibre. 30/06 or .308? The 7mm/08 seems to get a fair amount of praise for sambar. Decisions!

Good move.
308
270
3006
35 Whelan
7mm mag

All good for Sambar.

[bladeracer]

Thanks for the replies and feedback. I'll keep the rifled adapters for fun and buy a rifle with scope in a suitable deer calibre. 30/06 or .308? The 7mm/08 seems to get a fair amount of praise for sambar. Decisions!

I prefer 7mm-08 but if you don't load your own ammo you're probably better off with .308. The 7mm basically shoots the same bullet weights as .308, at the same velocities, but with better trajectory and wind deflection due to the slender bullets. The lightest bullets I have for 7mm are 78gn, the lightest in .30-cal are 86gn, and both go up to the 180gn realm in standard barrel twists.

[bigpete]

None of that matters a wit when you're hunting something that is mostly shot under 150m.....

[Oldbloke]

I went through the process of some tajectory comparisons about 3 years ago.
The dark blue is 3006
The green 7x57.
Bullet weights and velocity are slightly different. BUT the differences out to 250 yards is SFA. Last column is 300 yards. Buy a 308 or 3006 or 270. Ammo is cheaper and more option in rifles. They are all popular for a reason.

Resized_tempFileForShare_20230809-165023_13266028151636.jpeg (234.74 KiB) Viewed 3013 times

tempFileForShare_20230809-165146_13339716388794.jpg (125.29 KiB) Viewed 3013 times

P.S. 95% of sambar are shot under 150 yards.

[bladeracer]

I went through the process of some trajectory comparisons about 3 years ago.
The dark blue is 3006
The green 7x57.
Bullet weights and velocity are slightly different. BUT the differences out to 250 yards is SFA. Last column is 300 yards. Buy a 308 or 3006 or 270. Ammo is cheaper and more option in rifles. They are all popular for a reason.

Resized_tempFileForShare_20230809-165023_13266028151636.jpeg

tempFileForShare_20230809-165146_13339716388794.jpg

P.S. 95% of sambar are shot under 150 yards.

Yep, the only thing of significance for close range is a little less wind deflection with higher-BC bullets, trajectory doesn't vary all that much across a whole host of different chamberings out to 250m, especially for use on large targets like deer. I was checking out a new spot on a property this arvo and shots could be around the 300m mark from one really good watch position. Get down into the dense stuff though and even 50m is a stretch. There appear to only be fallow on this property though a sambar was apparently sighted by a neighbour a few weeks ago along one fence line.

[bladeracer]

Another option may be rifled .357 and .44 Magnum rounds fired in a 12 gauge chamber adapters. I have these adapters that I mostly bought as a hoot but I've found them surprisingly accurate fired in my single 12 gauge with just the front bead and groove on the breech.

I'm interested in what sort of accuracy you're seeing with these. I've also been surprised by their accuracy, but not to the point I would consider hunting with them. Some time spent on load development, and perhaps shimming the adaptor to fit more securely in the barrel, may well improve them significantly. I have much more useful rifles to use though (including in .38 Special, .357Mag and .44Mag) so not sure I could set aside the time to pursue that sort of experiment.

The adapters would be useful if you only had a CatA licence, but then you can't own CatB or CatH ammunition so that's not viable here, you can only use rimfire adapters.

[Oldbloke]

The difference between the two cartridges relating to wind will be much the same. And like I said long range shots at sambar are relitively rare anyway. Its all academic.

[Border_Bloke]

I've seen acouple of reviews where people were getting around 8 inch groups at 25 yards with the Chiappa adaptors. You'd do better with rifled slugs. The Chiappa ones would really only be good to dispatch wounded animals quietly (as Blade said) or for something really close (and for this you'd probably do better with buckshot anyway).

Not really accurate enough to hunt with, and in Vic using a shotgun you are supposed to use 245gn slugs with sights. Not sure if the GMA would be ok with a 245gn 44mag bullet out of a shotgun or not.

You CAN get accurate adaptors like the Krieghoff rimfire adaptors, these are designed to be left fixed in the barrel and you can adjust where they hit using screws.
In NSW these don't have to be registered, but on an A/B licesne you'll need to you register them as a second barrel to buy pistol ammo for them (with the possible exception of 44mag or 357mag).

[bladeracer]

I've seen acouple of reviews where people were getting around 8 inch groups at 25 yards with the Chiappa adaptors. You'd do better with rifled slugs. The Chiappa ones would really only be good to dispatch wounded animals quietly (as Blade said) or for something really close (and for this you'd probably do better with buckshot anyway).

Not really accurate enough to hunt with, and in Vic using a shotgun you are supposed to use 245gn slugs with sights. Not sure if the GMA would be ok with a 245gn 44mag bullet out of a shotgun or not.

You CAN get accurate adaptors like the Krieghoff rimfire adaptors, these are designed to be left fixed in the barrel and you can adjust where they hit using screws.
In NSW these don't have to be registered, but on an A/B licesne you'll need to you register them as a second barrel to buy pistol ammo for them (with the possible exception of 44mag or 357mag).

I did look at the full-length European adapters but the cost is pretty much the same as buying a cheap rifle, which is going to be more useful anyway.

[bigpete]

https://chaszel.com/product/45-70-shotgun-adapters/

[mickb]

I've seen acouple of reviews where people were getting around 8 inch groups at 25 yards with the Chiappa adaptors. You'd do better with rifled slugs. The Chiappa ones would really only be good to dispatch wounded animals quietly (as Blade said) or for something really close (and for this you'd probably do better with buckshot anyway).

Not really accurate enough to hunt with, and in Vic using a shotgun you are supposed to use 245gn slugs with sights. Not sure if the GMA would be ok with a 245gn 44mag bullet out of a shotgun or not.

You CAN get accurate adaptors like the Krieghoff rimfire adaptors, these are designed to be left fixed in the barrel and you can adjust where they hit using screws.
In NSW these don't have to be registered, but on an A/B licesne you'll need to you register them as a second barrel to buy pistol ammo for them (with the possible exception of 44mag or 357mag).

pretty much fits in with what everyone else reports. Fact is 8-10" groups at 25 or even 50 is novetly/dispatch wounded beast level only. Or maybe zombie defence at room ranges in a SHTF scenario

[bigpete]

https://chaszel.com/product/45-70-shotgun-adapters/

These are what you want if you can get them